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  • Please Note - Medical Advice

    Please keep in mind that posts on this forum are from members of the public sharing personal opinions. It is not a replacement for qualified medical advice from a veterinarian. Many illnesses share similar symptoms but require different treatments. A medical exam is necessary for an accurate diagnosis, without which appropriate treatment cannot be given.

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Take two - cartrophen! New medication Bethanacol

Hugo's There

Hugo's There

Wise Old Thumper
Has anyone used these injections at the same time as using oral metacam?

Does anyone have an opinion on whether the benefits out weigh the risks?
 
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Having a quick look at the links I still can't tell you. It may have been something else completely different from both of them as neither describe what the vet said......
 
I'll try again!

Checking Google I am pretty certain she must have said Cartrophen.

I thought it was carprofen because she mentioned numerous times the risks of using it with metacam and they shouldn't really be used together.

But reading online there are risks with cartrophen and metacam too.

So I'll ask this time if anyone has experience of using cartrophen and metacam together?

Thanks!
 
Hugo's There said:
I'll try again!

Checking Google I am pretty certain she must have said Cartrophen.

I thought it was carprofen because she mentioned numerous times the risks of using it with metacam and they shouldn't really be used together.

But reading online there are risks with cartrophen and metacam too.

So I'll ask this time if anyone has experience of using cartrophen and metacam together?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Not had any experience of using them simultaneously, sorry x
 
Hugo's There said:
A shameless bump!

Anyone?
Click to expand...

Looked up on Google for you:

http://www.cartrophen.com/veterinarians_faqs.html

Here someone tried 4 x weekly injections of Cartrophen but didn't see any improvement in their disabled rabbit:

http://ontariorabbits.org/health/disabilities

This article says pretty much the same as the first link I quoted: http://www.vethelpdirect.com/vetblog/2011/03/24/pain-part-2-getting-rid-of-pain/


Cartrophen is an anti-arthritic drug (also sometimes used in bladder problems in cats) which has a number of effects on joints. It’s usually given as four weekly injections, followed by a variable period of remission. It can be very beneficial for some arthritis patients, but may need a little forward planning in its use, as its administration isn’t recommended at the same time as NSAIDs. It’s certainly a drug worthy of close inspection in long term arthritis cases.


I don't know how relevant or useful these will be in the treatment of Otis. They seem to suggest either they didn't work, or that they shouldn't be given at the same time as Metacam. But it's only a small sample of research. Hope it helps :D
 
Thats about as much as I know too!

She said using the two together lead to a risk of bleeding from the gut. But she felt protecting his bladder lining was more important and out weighed the risk at the moment :?
 
Hugo's There said:
Thats about as much as I know too!

She said using the two together lead to a risk of bleeding from the gut. But she felt protecting his bladder lining was more important and out weighed the risk at the moment :?
Click to expand...

Does he need to be on Metacam specifically ? Or could another type of analgesic be given if necessary ?

There is some information here about the 'off licence' use of Cartrophen in Cats with interstitial cystitis :

''ELMIRON (pentosan polysulphate sodium) is the first and only oral medication that has
been approved by the FDA for treating the pain or discomfort of interstitial cystitis (IC)
in man. It’s available by prescription only, and is believed to help repair and restore the
damaged bladder lining. Clinical studies show some persons may experience symptom
improvement in as little as 4 weeks or as long as 3 months.
It has become fairly common practice to use Cartrophen Vet off label in cats for
interstitial cystitis and hence we are providing the following information on its current
use.
Cartrophen Vet use in cats is an off label use since the product has not been approved
for this indication in cats. Information as to its efficacy is anecdotal. Our experience in
Canada is that there has been a steady increase in the use of Cartrophen Vet for cats.''

Full text here:

http://www.cartrophen.ca/pdf/FAQs.pdf

To be honest I would be very wary about risking giving both Metacam and Cartrophen together, I know that doing so in Horses is not advised. But of course my opinion isn't 'qualified' and I am more than a little neurotic !! I'd just need to be convinced by a Vet I trusted a lot before agreeing that it was a risk worth taking.

This comes from the product data sheet

''NSAIDs and in particular aspirin should not be used in combination with Cartrophen Vet as they may affect thrombocyte adhesion and potentiate the anticoagulant activity of Cartrophen Vet. Corticosteroids have been shown to be antagonistic to a number of actions of Cartrophen Vet. Furthermore, use of anti-inflammatory drugs may result in a premature increase in the dog's activity which may interfere with the disease-modifying activity of Cartrophen Vet.
Do not use concurrently with steroids or non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, including aspirin and phenylbutazone, or within 24 hours of such administration.''

Full text here:

http://fortehealthcare.com/Cartrophen/data sheet.html
 
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I use cartrophen and metacam together, with no ill effects so far. My vets recommend not giving metacam 24 hours before and after, although one vet spoke to a rep and this is possibly even over careful as cartrophen is not a NSAID and works in a different manner. I've had so good results with it and some less so, I guess it depends on the condition and level of damage.
I recently used it on a cat who has renal issues and it has made a huge improvement to her.
 
halfpenny said:
I use cartrophen and metacam together, with no ill effects so far. My vets recommend not giving metacam 24 hours before and after, although one vet spoke to a rep and this is possibly even over careful as cartrophen is not a NSAID and works in a different manner. I've had so good results with it and some less so, I guess it depends on the condition and level of damage.
I recently used it on a cat who has renal issues and it has made a huge improvement to her.
Click to expand...

Have you experienced using the two together specifically in Rabbits ? Very interested to hear any info you have about it :)
 
No, never used it in rabbits, but dogs and cats and considering using in goats and a duck. My vet told me it had been used in an arthritic bear in a zoo once!

I should say for the cat, it was to avoid using metacam due to the potential increased damage to the kidneys in an already compromised cat.
 
halfpenny said:
No, never used it in rabbits, but dogs and cats and considering using in goats and a duck. My vet told me it had been used in an arthritic bear in a zoo once!

I should say for the cat, it was to avoid using metacam due to the potential increased damage to the kidneys in an already compromised cat.
Click to expand...

Oh blimey, I wouldn't fancy giving an injection to a bear :shock:

I really like learning about all the different treatment options for various conditions. It's a never ending learning curve xx
 
Thanks for the replies.

I have read most of the links already :)

I'm wondering why, if it is a dog drug and off licence for cats, why it only mentions it being used for cases of cat cystitis but never for dogs? I can't see anything about it being used for dog bladder problems. So if it only works for cats will it work on a rabbit bladder?

We have also only recently doubled his metacam dose and he is doing much better with the increase. We have tramadol for him but I haven't needed to use it yet and my concern after Friday is that it will slow his guts. So if we can manage without it I would prefer it.

I have put in a request for a phone consult Thursday evening to discuss this and a couple of other medication issues. As I definitely want more than one vet opinion before deciding.

If anyone has used metacam and cartrophen together on rabbits or has used it specifically for a rabbit bladder. I would love to hear. Thanks :)
 
I haven't read the links but the only thing I can think of is that cats, like rabbit are prone to urinary crystals of various types, dogs are not.
 
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