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Lung lesion - to have surgery or not? Experiences appreciated.

A

Auggie's Mum

New Kit
Hello,
I'm new to the forum. I've got a lovely little 8 year old lop named Auggie.
He's been my companion through thick and thin for a long time and I'm having a hard time deciding what is best decision to make for him right now.
He was fit as a fiddle for years, never had a single complaint--up until I had a baby last year. I think no longer being center of attention hit him hard, and a few months ago he started to have weepy eyes. The vet thought it was his teeth, but he had a rattling cough as well which I'd never heard before. After x-Rays the vet concluded that his left lung has lesions and is limiting his ability to breathe.
In this time he's not been his old self, even though I'm now able to spend loads more time with him I fear it's too late.
I've taken him to two specialists who advise he has a 50% chance of surviving the surgery. But if I don't choose the surgical route, he will surely die in the next few months.
I love him so much, he's like my first baby. I go back and forth about which option to take. My dad and sister both passed away from metasticised cancer, so I'm all too familiar with the toll radical surgery can take.
And though he's not young, he's such a strong little guy. Part of me feels he'd pull through.
But part of me thinks he should go gently. I do not want him to die in pain.

Has anyone else had experience with his type of surgery in a not-so-Young rabbit?

Thank you.
 
I have no advice I'm afraid although if you have a vet you trust I have always found asking what they would do if the animal was theirs would help me reach a decision. Of course you know your rabbit best but if you have doubts it can help settle them.

He sounds like a happy little guy and I hope that he can remain comfortable :love:
 
I like Hele's advice to ask the vet what they would do. This is the first I have heard of a rabbit with lesions in its lungs, I am assuming it is some form of cancer and not an infection?

I think given the age I would lean toward pts. I look at it sort of from the perspective of ....if I had cancer and was 80 years old would I want an operation to prolong my life.... maybe not, especially if the recovery time would be slow and painful and it would only prolong my life for a few years, I think I would instead choose to live as long as I could on painkillers and then when it was time, euthanasia (which really means "the good death" in greek). That is what I would chose for myself so I would want it for my rabbit too.
 
Auggie's Mum said:
Hello,
I'm new to the forum. I've got a lovely little 8 year old lop named Auggie.
He's been my companion through thick and thin for a long time and I'm having a hard time deciding what is best decision to make for him right now.
He was fit as a fiddle for years, never had a single complaint--up until I had a baby last year. I think no longer being center of attention hit him hard, and a few months ago he started to have weepy eyes. The vet thought it was his teeth, but he had a rattling cough as well which I'd never heard before. After x-Rays the vet concluded that his left lung has lesions and is limiting his ability to breathe.
In this time he's not been his old self, even though I'm now able to spend loads more time with him I fear it's too late.
I've taken him to two specialists who advise he has a 50% chance of surviving the surgery. But if I don't choose the surgical route, he will surely die in the next few months.
I love him so much, he's like my first baby. I go back and forth about which option to take. My dad and sister both passed away from metasticised cancer, so I'm all too familiar with the toll radical surgery can take.
And though he's not young, he's such a strong little guy. Part of me feels he'd pull through.
But part of me thinks he should go gently. I do not want him to die in pain.

Has anyone else had experience with his type of surgery in a not-so-Young rabbit?

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Poor Bunny

Without knowing what the lesion is it is hard to suggest what may be the best thing to do. It is often the case that a bacterial infection, often but not always pasteurella, causes abscesses to form in the lungs thus reducing lung function and potentially leading to pneumonia. Has the Vet not suggested aggressive antibiotic treatment ? If not and going straight in with any surgery when the Vet has no idea what the lesion is seems more than a little extreme to me. At the very least I would expect the Vet to suggest further diagnostics eg a bronchoscopy and for him/her to give a covering antibiotic in the meantime.

Are you in the UK ? Is your Vet 'Rabbit Savvy'
 
Auggie's Mum said:
Hello,
I'm new to the forum. I've got a lovely little 8 year old lop named Auggie.
He's been my companion through thick and thin for a long time and I'm having a hard time deciding what is best decision to make for him right now.
He was fit as a fiddle for years, never had a single complaint--up until I had a baby last year. I think no longer being center of attention hit him hard, and a few months ago he started to have weepy eyes. The vet thought it was his teeth, but he had a rattling cough as well which I'd never heard before. After x-Rays the vet concluded that his left lung has lesions and is limiting his ability to breathe.
In this time he's not been his old self, even though I'm now able to spend loads more time with him I fear it's too late.
I've taken him to two specialists who advise he has a 50% chance of surviving the surgery. But if I don't choose the surgical route, he will surely die in the next few months.
I love him so much, he's like my first baby. I go back and forth about which option to take. My dad and sister both passed away from metasticised cancer, so I'm all too familiar with the toll radical surgery can take.
And though he's not young, he's such a strong little guy. Part of me feels he'd pull through.
But part of me thinks he should go gently. I do not want him to die in pain.

Has anyone else had experience with his type of surgery in a not-so-Young rabbit?

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Poor Bunny

Without knowing what the lesion is it is hard to suggest what may be the best thing to do. It is often the case that a bacterial infection, often but not always pasteurella, causes abscesses to form in the lungs thus reducing lung function and potentially leading to pneumonia. The lesion may not be cancerous at all. Has the Vet not suggested aggressive antibiotic treatment ? If not and going straight in with any surgery when the Vet has no idea what the lesion is seems more than a little extreme to me. At the very least I would expect the Vet to suggest further diagnostics eg a bronchoscopy and for him/her to give a covering antibiotic in the meantime.

Are you in the UK ? Is your Vet 'Rabbit Savvy'
 
Thank you for your advice. I did try the 'what would you do' routine with our regular vet but I think they're used to being asked that, and try to remain neutral in a professional capacity. I understand, after all, if I followed their conclusions to the letter and then got angry about the outcome it wouldn't be fair. But I'm sure it's happened in the past.

I forgot to add that, yes, he's been on various courses of antibiotics for the past few months. He gets meds twice a day, and seems fairly happy on it.

I first misktakenly thought the lesions were cancer--but they're not. Apparently, it's something that happens to horses too, but they can breathe in anything (possibly a bit of hay) which can just become infected. Crazy. I tend to think, he was feeling low when I was really busy with my newborn baby. It happens with people, illness can strike when you're mentally down. And I guess it's why I'm having a hard time thinking it's the end for him.

He's a dutch lop, and generally speaking, I've known of a few that have lived to 12 or 15 -- so is it fair to think of him as an eighty year old? Maybe he's more closer to fifty. And that seems awfully young to me.

If anyone has had a rabbit go through major surgery, I'd love to hear how the rabbit coped, be it positive or negative.

Thanks again, everyone.

Auggie's mum
 
And yes, we are in the UK, we're in London. We've seen a few vets, some more rabbit savvy than others. One guy, wrote a book on rabbit surgery. He
wasn't the friendliest doctor but he seemed fairly breezy about the surgery. But I couldn't tell if that was just because he wasn't terribly nice! Thank you
 
Auggie's Mum said:
And yes, we are in the UK, we're in London. We've seen a few vets, some more rabbit savvy than others. One guy, wrote a book on rabbit surgery. He
wasn't the friendliest doctor but he seemed fairly breezy about the surgery. But I couldn't tell if that was just because he wasn't terribly nice! Thank you
Click to expand...

I've just seen your post and welcome to RU :wave:

I'm glad you've given a few more details, as from the first post it was easy to assume he had cancer and had not had antibiotic therapy.

I think the fact you have a very savvy vet on board makes a world of difference. I used to have a vet who's bedside manner left a lot to be desired, but boy did he know his stuff where rabbits were concerned. I would have totally trusted him with my rabbit's life, and did on many occasions.

I think as regards surgery, the vet who knows your rabbit's health inside out, and his own skill at surgery, should determine whether to go ahead or not.
 
Auggie's Mum said:
And yes, we are in the UK, we're in London. We've seen a few vets, some more rabbit savvy than others. One guy, wrote a book on rabbit surgery. He
wasn't the friendliest doctor but he seemed fairly breezy about the surgery. But I couldn't tell if that was just because he wasn't terribly nice! Thank you
Click to expand...

I think I know who that might be !! :lol: If it's the same man I am thinking of then yes, he is a great Vet but he has had a 'relating to people skills' bypass.............

I have not had a Rabbit who has undergone major surgery on the lungs. To be honest I am not at all sure I would consider it, even for a much younger Rabbit under the care of a Specialist Vet. But of course I cant say for certain unless or until I find myself in that situation. I would still want to know if more detailed diagnostics, such as a bronchoscopy, could be attempted. Even that would be risky, but not as much as 'open chest' surgery.

One Vet I would recommend you contact is Mark Rowland at Trinity Vets in Maidstone, Kent. He is probably one of the very few Vets who I would entrust a Rabbit to who needed such skilled surgery. If he said that Surgery were a realistic option I would believe him. If on the other hand he advised against it I would accept that too

If you are intending to stay with the Vet you are with now in the longterm you could ask your Vet for a 'second opinion' referral to Mark at Trinity to address this particular problem.

Contact details here : http://www.trinityvetcentre.com/Trinity_Vet_Centre/Home.html
 
I agree with Jane. I would go for a referral to the most experienced vet in this specialist area and go with what they suggest. There may be other antibiotics that could be tried, for instance, that you regular vet does not use routinely.

I have had an older rabbit with dental issues and only one functional lung. He was OK with standard dentals under GA. I did ask about operating on the lung but was put off by the impact of such major surgery when I talked it through. It wasn't critical to his overall quality of life, though.

I would need more details and have exhausted all other options first. I wouldn't even consider surgery if there were other issues which would compromise a recovery (eg organ function shown by a blood screen). His age alone shouldn't be a barrier. Be persistent and keep exploring the options. In the meantime, keep him happy and enjoy his company so that he has the best chance.
 
Lesions, conclusion & thanks

Hi Everyone,
I apologise for the silence, I've been wanting to write in for an update but between doctors visits, sick bunny and a newborn baby, I've been short of time. Until now.
I wanted to write to you to let you know how helpful your words were--Auggie passed away on Friday.
After visiting a number of consultants, trying a few different cocktails of drugs, and hand-feeding him twice daily for the past two months, he slipped away. Struggling for breath daily, he was noticeably much more tired on Friday. He sat in the garden, nestled between two pots gently resting his head on the ground. And at the close of day we sat together, his breathing much more laboured and rattled. He tried to burrow into my side and nestled into me, then shook for a bit. And it was over.
It will take a very long time for me to move on, as he was a special little being and a huge part of my life. We said our prayers for him and gave him a ceremonial burial in a willow box Saturday morning.
At the end, I'm so glad I didn't turn towards surgery. That would've been me clutching at straws--instead I know he died with dignity and not in fear. And that means the world to me.
He was a very happy bunny and though I wish he had more than eight and a half years, I know that's just me being selfish.
I'm so glad forums like this exist. One day, when my little girl is older, I'd love to get another pair of bunnies. They are so clever, full of personality and just brilliant creatures. Though the thought right now makes me cry, as they'll never replace my little guy Augustus.
Thank you x
 
I am so sorry for your loss:-( I understand how you might be feeling after losing my special little boy bunny when my first son was jjust 6 wks old. Being a new mum is tough and totally all consuming but despite this you did everything you could for your bunny. I was just about to post that I personally would not have pursued surgery and then read about your beloved buns natural passing. You did the right thing. Two weeks ago we lost our bunny's bonded partner, she was 8yrs old also and had a severe infection that could have been treated successfully with major surgery but we opted not to put her through it. After a bash at abx therapy I had her pts as she became very ill and was deteriorating quickly. My second son is now 16 months old and she was a part of both my boys lives for their entire babyhood. When our boy bunny died I took it very hard, like Augustus he was my companion through thick and thin and pulled me through some dark times. I often think that he left me when he had done his job, that he was my gift and when my son was born I was all healed and well and perhaps he knew his part to play was over, he had helped to give me another precious gift. I will never forget him. I know you won't ever forget Augustus either. He will always be a part of you. My children have got me through both bunny losses, kids are the most wonderful healers. My two boys have benefited immensely from having rabbits in our family, they have learnt kindness and gentleness and respect for animals from birth. Although bunnyless for now we will always have rabbits in our family I hope in the future. So sorry for your loss x
 
Auggie's Mum said:
Hi Everyone,
I apologise for the silence, I've been wanting to write in for an update but between doctors visits, sick bunny and a newborn baby, I've been short of time. Until now.
I wanted to write to you to let you know how helpful your words were--Auggie passed away on Friday.
After visiting a number of consultants, trying a few different cocktails of drugs, and hand-feeding him twice daily for the past two months, he slipped away. Struggling for breath daily, he was noticeably much more tired on Friday. He sat in the garden, nestled between two pots gently resting his head on the ground. And at the close of day we sat together, his breathing much more laboured and rattled. He tried to burrow into my side and nestled into me, then shook for a bit. And it was over.
It will take a very long time for me to move on, as he was a special little being and a huge part of my life. We said our prayers for him and gave him a ceremonial burial in a willow box Saturday morning.
At the end, I'm so glad I didn't turn towards surgery. That would've been me clutching at straws--instead I know he died with dignity and not in fear. And that means the world to me.
He was a very happy bunny and though I wish he had more than eight and a half years, I know that's just me being selfish.
I'm so glad forums like this exist. One day, when my little girl is older, I'd love to get another pair of bunnies. They are so clever, full of personality and just brilliant creatures. Though the thought right now makes me cry, as they'll never replace my little guy Augustus.
Thank you x
Click to expand...

I am so sorry for your loss :cry: Augustus was obviously a very much loved friend and I am sure he will remain in your heart forever xx
 
Thank you ladies

prettylupin said:
I am so sorry for your loss:-( I understand how you might be feeling after losing my special little boy bunny when my first son was jjust 6 wks old. Being a new mum is tough and totally all consuming but despite this you did everything you could for your bunny. I was just about to post that I personally would not have pursued surgery and then read about your beloved buns natural passing. You did the right thing. Two weeks ago we lost our bunny's bonded partner, she was 8yrs old also and had a severe infection that could have been treated successfully with major surgery but we opted not to put her through it. After a bash at abx therapy I had her pts as she became very ill and was deteriorating quickly. My second son is now 16 months old and she was a part of both my boys lives for their entire babyhood. When our boy bunny died I took it very hard, like Augustus he was my companion through thick and thin and pulled me through some dark times. I often think that he left me when he had done his job, that he was my gift and when my son was born I was all healed and well and perhaps he knew his part to play was over, he had helped to give me another precious gift. I will never forget him. I know you won't ever forget Augustus either. He will always be a part of you. My children have got me through both bunny losses, kids are the most wonderful healers. My two boys have benefited immensely from having rabbits in our family, they have learnt kindness and gentleness and respect for animals from birth. Although bunnyless for now we will always have rabbits in our family I hope in the future. So sorry for your loss x
Click to expand...

Thank you both, prettylupin and Jack's Jane, for understanding....

Prettylupin, that is exactly how I feel! I feel so sad at leaving Auggie behind while I move on with my little girl. He was my constant friend through a lot of difficult, lonely times. We grew up together. I was with him longer than my husband. In fact, my husband often called him my 'familiar' we were so closely bonded.
You put it beautifully, I know Auggie trained me up to be a patient, responsible mum. But I can't help but feel so sad I couldn't give him more time. Hopefully with time I'll have that perspective, and can reflect back on all the goodness he brought. And what he's given my baby, makes me all the more want her to grow up with pets. He was amazing with her. I'm sorry for your loss too. Thank you so much for your kind words xxx
 
I'm so sorry to hear this. You so obviously gave him everything which is why he wanted you with him at the end. So so sad but he can now Binky free of pain. :cry:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
So very sorry for your loss :(

I lost my Louie at Christmas and understand how much it hurts :(

Sleep tightly little one xxx
 
So very sorry for your loss. You did all you could for Auggie & he passed peacefully in his home, knowing he was loved & safe.

Binky free at the bridge xx
 
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