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View Full Version : Worried i've fed something poisonous to Winston, please help :(



ImoT
01-05-2015, 05:03 PM
So I went foraging today and picked some things and I felt like I was bombarding this forum with forage ID posts so decided to do my own research and go with my own instincts. I fed what I thought was plantain, but Winston's reaction has panicked me. I only fed a small amount of one leaf. He was 'mouthing' it a lot (like it was really chewy or tasted bad), then he started running in circles and thumping/kicking out, and then he was getting his front paws and sort of wiping his mouth (almost like he was grooming his face). It just didn't look right and has worried me. He seems ok now and has eaten some dandelion leaf and sow thistle since.

Can anyone confirm this is plantain;
http://i.imgur.com/tVQWU0P.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jiabeXa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Fo4Q8yk.jpg

If not I think i'll be taking a trip to the vets just in case :(

Also I think this is coltsfoot but now i'm too nervous to give it to him in case i'm wrong;
http://i.imgur.com/yVNkN2c.jpg

Babsie
01-05-2015, 05:10 PM
No, it isn't plantain (not as I know it, anyway) but don't know what it is. Sorry, don't know about the second one.

Zoobec
01-05-2015, 05:13 PM
First one is not plantain, can't remember name of it. Don't know if it is safe or not I'm afraid, hopefully someone else will know but I would ring vets to ask advice.

Babsie
01-05-2015, 05:16 PM
No, it isn't plantain (not as I know it, anyway) but don't know what it is. Sorry, don't know about the second one.

SJH
01-05-2015, 05:25 PM
It's definitely not plantain. Sorry, I don't know what it is. Try sending a PM to parsnipbun. :)


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ImoT
01-05-2015, 05:35 PM
I've just found this link; http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Food/Toxic_plants_en.pdf and it says groundsel is toxic for rabbits and i've also been feeding him that from advice on here that it was safe :( I feel awful! I'll pm parsnipbun and phone the vets.

Babsie
01-05-2015, 05:44 PM
I feed groundsel.

MightyMax
01-05-2015, 05:45 PM
So I went foraging today and picked some things and I felt like I was bombarding this forum with forage ID posts so decided to do my own research and go with my own instincts. I fed what I thought was plantain, but Winston's reaction has panicked me. I only fed a small amount of one leaf. He was 'mouthing' it a lot (like it was really chewy or tasted bad), then he started running in circles and thumping/kicking out, and then he was getting his front paws and sort of wiping his mouth (almost like he was grooming his face). It just didn't look right and has worried me. He seems ok now and has eaten some dandelion leaf and sow thistle since.

Can anyone confirm this is plantain;
http://i.imgur.com/tVQWU0P.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jiabeXa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Fo4Q8yk.jpg

If not I think i'll be taking a trip to the vets just in case :(

Also I think this is coltsfoot but now i'm too nervous to give it to him in case i'm wrong;
http://i.imgur.com/yVNkN2c.jpg

No, it's not plantain.

It could be he reacted that way because it was strongly flavoured, or very bitter tasting. If he only had a tiny bit (and it sounds like he didn't like it) then I would try not to worry too much until you have more info on what it was.

Good luck xx

MightyMax
01-05-2015, 05:47 PM
I've just found this link; http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Food/Toxic_plants_en.pdf and it says groundsel is toxic for rabbits and i've also been feeding him that from advice on here that it was safe :( I feel awful! I'll pm parsnipbun and phone the vets.

There are often grey areas where edible wild plants are concerned.

I queried bindweed with Parsnipbun, as in her book it's safe for rabbits but RWAF says it's toxic.

Parsnipbun has good experience of feeding her rabbits the plants she recommends, and great back up info. I'm sure she will reply on groundsel too and I'd be interested in the reply :thumb:

Babsie
01-05-2015, 05:54 PM
http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx236/Babsjoy/033128f489fd2fb30eb0b826f3b180d6.jpg

(From Parsnipbun's book)
So looks as though you shouldn't feed too much/often

fionaw
01-05-2015, 05:57 PM
I think it might be wild arum/lords and ladies/cuckoo pint, which I don't think is good for rabbits..

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wild+arum&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rq9DVeOLHMzlaJvsgbAL&ved=0CC0QsAQ&biw=1366&bih=631

ImoT
01-05-2015, 05:57 PM
No, it's not plantain.

It could be he reacted that way because it was strongly flavoured, or very bitter tasting. If he only had a tiny bit (and it sounds like he didn't like it) then I would try not to worry too much until you have more info on what it was.

Good luck xx


There are often grey areas where edible wild plants are concerned.

I queried bindweed with Parsnipbun, as in her book it's safe for rabbits but RWAF says it's toxic.

Parsnipbun has good experience of feeding her rabbits the plants she recommends, and great back up info. I'm sure she will reply on groundsel too and I'd be interested in the reply :thumb:

I've pm'd parsnipbun, fingers crossed she replies soon!

I phoned the vet, and actually got to speak to the vet rather than a receptionist. She was really good. She said that if it had been toxic he would have had a reaction by now as toxins are fairly fast acting, and because I fed a very small amount he should be fine. She said that he might have a bit of an upset tummy and said I could go and pick up some gut stimulant to get it out of him quicker but as she said it would have to be syringe fed directly into his mouth I honestly think this would just stress him out and make things worse. His emergency vet (the one I phoned) is a vet hospital so open all weekend 24 hours a day so she said if I have any concerns or if he gets worse then I can take him straight in.

I feel like an awful rabbit mother :(

ImoT
01-05-2015, 05:59 PM
http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx236/Babsjoy/033128f489fd2fb30eb0b826f3b180d6.jpg

(From Parsnipbun's book)
So looks as though you shouldn't feed too much/often


I think it might be wild arum/lords and ladies/cuckoo pint, which I don't think is good for rabbits..

Thank you!! Oh goodness I give up with this foraging lark! :(

ETA; fionaw I think you are right, that's exactly what it looks like!!

MightyMax
01-05-2015, 06:05 PM
I've pm'd parsnipbun, fingers crossed she replies soon!

I phoned the vet, and actually got to speak to the vet rather than a receptionist. She was really good. She said that if it had been toxic he would have had a reaction by now as toxins are fairly fast acting, and because I fed a very small amount he should be fine. She said that he might have a bit of an upset tummy and said I could go and pick up some gut stimulant to get it out of him quicker but as she said it would have to be syringe fed directly into his mouth I honestly think this would just stress him out and make things worse. His emergency vet (the one I phoned) is a vet hospital so open all weekend 24 hours a day so she said if I have any concerns or if he gets worse then I can take him straight in.

I feel like an awful rabbit mother :(

Noooooo!!

We are all only doing our best! The fact he knew he didn't like it means he knows what's good for him, which is often the case with our lovely buns.

I think your vet is right. A tiny bit of something toxic isn't gong to harm him. Numerous times people tell me of the poisonous stuff their rabbits ate, and they've all been fine :thumb:

You are a *good* bunny Mum xx

SJH
01-05-2015, 06:10 PM
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/Paddington1972/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpst4vdgrmq.jpg (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Paddington1972/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpst4vdgrmq.jpg.html)
Also from Parsnipbun's book. Is this it? If so, it's safe.


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Babsie
01-05-2015, 06:11 PM
I recommend Dk Pocket Nature -
RSPB Wild Flowers

And Parsnipbun's book - Foraging for Rabbits by Twigs Way
which I only received yesterday from RWAF.

I did take pics of the covers . . . But Photobucket has stuck (as per)

ImoT
01-05-2015, 06:23 PM
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/Paddington1972/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpst4vdgrmq.jpg (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Paddington1972/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpst4vdgrmq.jpg.html)
Also from Parsnipbun's book. Is this it? If so, it's safe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unfortunately I think it's this; https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wild+arum&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rq9DVeOLHMzlaJvsgbAL&ved=0CC0QsAQ&biw=1366&bih=631 Wild Arum, as posted by Fionaw, it looks like the really early stages of it. It's toxic to rabbits, but I think he will be okay. I've given him some extra treat hay to encourage him to eat his hay to get it through his system quickly.


Noooooo!!

We are all only doing our best! The fact he knew he didn't like it means he knows what's good for him, which is often the case with our lovely buns.

I think your vet is right. A tiny bit of something toxic isn't gong to harm him. Numerous times people tell me of the poisonous stuff their rabbits ate, and they've all been fine :thumb:

You are a *good* bunny Mum xx

Thank you, I really appreciate the kind words. I am trying my best!

ImoT
01-05-2015, 06:25 PM
I recommend Dk Pocket Nature -
RSPB Wild Flowers

And Parsnipbun's book - Foraging for Rabbits by Twigs Way
which I only received yesterday from RWAF.

I did take pics of the covers . . . But Photobucket has stuck (as per)

Thank you, I am certainly planning on getting the Twigs (who I believe is parsnipbun?!) book!!! Although I have been put off foraging a bit considering one thing I gave to Winston is toxic and the other (groundsel) isn't good in large quantities (which I didn't know!!). I am struggling to find things to pick which are safe/good in any quantity!

Babsie
01-05-2015, 06:37 PM
Thank you, I am certainly planning on getting the Twigs (who I believe is parsnipbun?!) book!!! Although I have been put off foraging a bit considering one thing I gave to Winston is toxic and the other (groundsel) isn't good in large quantities (which I didn't know!!). I am struggling to find things to pick which are safe/good in any quantity!

Indeed she is.
I'd recommend the other one as well - it's really interesting with excellent photographs.
Mind you, I was forever posting last year asking for help with strange plants I came across foraging at my local organic veg farm.

Sarahbun
01-05-2015, 06:46 PM
I've pm'd parsnipbun, fingers crossed she replies soon!

I phoned the vet, and actually got to speak to the vet rather than a receptionist. She was really good. She said that if it had been toxic he would have had a reaction by now as toxins are fairly fast acting, and because I fed a very small amount he should be fine. She said that he might have a bit of an upset tummy and said I could go and pick up some gut stimulant to get it out of him quicker but as she said it would have to be syringe fed directly into his mouth I honestly think this would just stress him out and make things worse. His emergency vet (the one I phoned) is a vet hospital so open all weekend 24 hours a day so she said if I have any concerns or if he gets worse then I can take him straight in.

I feel like an awful rabbit mother :(
You're a good rabbit mother, you went foraging to make life more interesting for your rabbit - because you love and care for them :)

MimzMum
01-05-2015, 07:24 PM
I have a hard time identifying the plantain here as we also have bluebell which has very similar leaves. I never pick the greater as I can't solidly say it's the right plant but the lesser is okay. However most of it grows underneath where the vehicles have been sitting, so I have to wander a bit to find untainted forage. :(
I just stick with dandelions and the hayseed that grows here because the previous owners had horses. This seems to keep the buns happy and I don't have to worry about wrong plants or pesticides as it's on my own land. :)
Don't know what we're going to do when we get to California though...that's a whole different kettle of fish. :(

I hope your bun is doing okay now. :love: Don't beat yourself up, you are trying your best. xxxx

ImoT
01-05-2015, 07:54 PM
Indeed she is.
I'd recommend the other one as well - it's really interesting with excellent photographs.
Mind you, I was forever posting last year asking for help with strange plants I came across foraging at my local organic veg farm.

Okay great, I'll buy those books and then attempt to go foraging again!

ETA does either of the books have photos of plants that are toxic/dangerous, rather than just ones which are safe?

ImoT
01-05-2015, 07:57 PM
You're a good rabbit mother, you went foraging to make life more interesting for your rabbit - because you love and care for them :)

Thank you, I was feeling so good that i'd picked lots of interesting things, this has really made me realised I need to check and double check that what I have is safe! It's hard when most websites only have lists without pictures!


I have a hard time identifying the plantain here as we also have bluebell which has very similar leaves. I never pick the greater as I can't solidly say it's the right plant but the lesser is okay. However most of it grows underneath where the vehicles have been sitting, so I have to wander a bit to find untainted forage. :(
I just stick with dandelions and the hayseed that grows here because the previous owners had horses. This seems to keep the buns happy and I don't have to worry about wrong plants or pesticides as it's on my own land. :)
Don't know what we're going to do when we get to California though...that's a whole different kettle of fish. :(

I hope your bun is doing okay now. :love: Don't beat yourself up, you are trying your best. xxxx

Winston loves dandelions!!! They are his favourite! He seems okay now, hopping around and binkying as per usual!

Santa
01-05-2015, 09:15 PM
It's hard to see but it does look very much like wild arum - are the leaves quite 'waxy'/shiny and are there any dark spots on any of the leaves, once they start to mature they get dark specks on them? We have loads of them in the garden and we have wild bunnies, the bunnies just ignore them so I suspect your bunny's reaction was just to the fact that it tasted disgusting - just like babies do when you feed them something new that they don't like! Keep a close eye just in case but hopefully all will be ok, there are relatively few plants which would be toxic just from a mouthful or two.

parsnipbun
01-05-2015, 09:57 PM
Its an arum. In large doses it would cause issues and the berries are toxic in small doses. I am surprised he ate it. However if just a small amount he should be ok. You could contact vet and tell them. They can supply something to soothe the stomach membranes and protect them. Ranitidine fir example

parsnipbun
01-05-2015, 10:00 PM
I've pm'd parsnipbun, fingers crossed she replies soon!

I phoned the vet, and actually got to speak to the vet rather than a receptionist. She was really good. She said that if it had been toxic he would have had a reaction by now as toxins are fairly fast acting, and because I fed a very small amount he should be fine. She said that he might have a bit of an upset tummy and said I could go and pick up some gut stimulant to get it out of him quicker but as she said it would have to be syringe fed directly into his mouth I honestly think this would just stress him out and make things worse. His emergency vet (the one I phoned) is a vet hospital so open all weekend 24 hours a day so she said if I have any concerns or if he gets worse then I can take him straight in.

I feel like an awful rabbit mother :(

That is not good vet advice. Toxins act in all sorts of different wats. Some are quick acting but some are cumulative and can act over months. A orotector for the stomach would be better than a motility or purgative in the case of buns.

Jack's-Jane
02-05-2015, 05:35 AM
That is not good vet advice. Toxins act in all sorts of different wats. Some are quick acting but some are cumulative and can act over months. A protector for the stomach would be better than a motility or purgative in the case of buns.

Yes I agree. Ranitidine would cover both issues

Hopefully Winston will be fine as he only ingested a tiny amount xx

ImoT
02-05-2015, 08:35 AM
That is not good vet advice. Toxins act in all sorts of different wats. Some are quick acting but some are cumulative and can act over months. A orotector for the stomach would be better than a motility or purgative in the case of buns.


Yes I agree. Ranitidine would cover both issues

Hopefully Winston will be fine as he only ingested a tiny amount xx

Thank you for your replies. I am very concerned my emergency vet didn't give me good advice :( I am registered with one half an hour away for routine things (vaccinations, neutering etc) and that practice was RWAF recommended. I decided to register with one five minutes away for emergency care because it is open 24 hours a day 7 days a week and is much closer which I felt would be safer for Winston in an emergency situation. It is the best vets locally but maybe I should stick with my usual vets even in emergencies?

Parsnipbun surely it would only be cumulative if I continued to feed it to him? I think the vet just meant that this one small amount if toxic in such an amount would have caused symptoms by now(well, by last night when I phoned)?

The good news is he seems fine this morning though. He's eaten his pellets and herbs/greens, and a huge amount of hay. He has done plenty of poos (which are totally normal looking) and wees and is drinking water.

MightyMax
02-05-2015, 11:38 AM
Thank you for your replies. I am very concerned my emergency vet didn't give me good advice :( I am registered with one half an hour away for routine things (vaccinations, neutering etc) and that practice was RWAF recommended. I decided to register with one five minutes away for emergency care because it is open 24 hours a day 7 days a week and is much closer which I felt would be safer for Winston in an emergency situation. It is the best vets locally but maybe I should stick with my usual vets even in emergencies?

Parsnipbun surely it would only be cumulative if I continued to feed it to him? I think the vet just meant that this one small amount if toxic in such an amount would have caused symptoms by now(well, by last night when I phoned)?

The good news is he seems fine this morning though. He's eaten his pellets and herbs/greens, and a huge amount of hay. He has done plenty of poos (which are totally normal looking) and wees and is drinking water.

This is great news! It sounds like there is no harm done.

What it has shown though, which is VERY important, is the quality of your emergency vet. It's been a learning experience in that regard, and maybe a very helpful one.

Where I am it's about a half hour or so to any emergency vet, so I would personally go with the one you feel best about. It's your bunny's life after all :D

ImoT
02-05-2015, 12:28 PM
It's hard to see but it does look very much like wild arum - are the leaves quite 'waxy'/shiny and are there any dark spots on any of the leaves, once they start to mature they get dark specks on them? We have loads of them in the garden and we have wild bunnies, the bunnies just ignore them so I suspect your bunny's reaction was just to the fact that it tasted disgusting - just like babies do when you feed them something new that they don't like! Keep a close eye just in case but hopefully all will be ok, there are relatively few plants which would be toxic just from a mouthful or two.

Sorry I didn't see your post before! Yes the leaves are waxy and shiny, there are no dark spots though. I think it is an arum. It's now in the compost bin!


This is great news! It sounds like there is no harm done.

What it has shown though, which is VERY important, is the quality of your emergency vet. It's been a learning experience in that regard, and maybe a very helpful one.

Where I am it's about a half hour or so to any emergency vet, so I would personally go with the one you feel best about. It's your bunny's life after all :D

After yesterday I think I feel best about my usual vet half an hour away. I think I shall use them from now on no matter what! :)

MightyMax
02-05-2015, 01:06 PM
After yesterday I think I feel best about my usual vet half an hour away. I think I shall use them from now on no matter what! :)

Your gut instinct is always the best barometer, I find :wave:

parsnipbun
02-05-2015, 01:13 PM
Hi

No harm done -

by the way the person that suggested Good King Henry - thats not as shiny as arum and the veins are not so deep -so it doesnt look 'crinkly' - arums often look crinkly.

The second does look like Coltsfoot - however thats quite early for coltsfoot - which flowers on long strange stalks with yellow dandelion like flowers BEFORE the leaves appear - are you in south west area or southwest midlands? In which case with the warm dry weather you might have early coltsfoot. Ours is only just coming.

Arum comes spotted and unspotted by the way.

Cumulative - yes if you continue to feed but vet still should have said not all toxins are instant and prescribed a stomach lining protector as Jacks Jane says like Ranitidine -

Have you thought of coming to one of my forage identification days? I still have spaces on the 17th May.

There is athread about them somewhere on here . . . .

SJH
02-05-2015, 03:23 PM
Hi


by the way the person that suggested Good King Henry - thats not as shiny as arum and the veins are not so deep -so it doesnt look 'crinkly' - arums often look crinkly.

. . . .

Thank you. I was wondering about "shininess" which was difficult to see from the picture. I'm not sure I've ever seen either but I'll keep a look out. I'm learning slowly!!



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ImoT
02-05-2015, 05:10 PM
Hi

No harm done -

by the way the person that suggested Good King Henry - thats not as shiny as arum and the veins are not so deep -so it doesnt look 'crinkly' - arums often look crinkly.

The second does look like Coltsfoot - however thats quite early for coltsfoot - which flowers on long strange stalks with yellow dandelion like flowers BEFORE the leaves appear - are you in south west area or southwest midlands? In which case with the warm dry weather you might have early coltsfoot. Ours is only just coming.

Arum comes spotted and unspotted by the way.

Cumulative - yes if you continue to feed but vet still should have said not all toxins are instant and prescribed a stomach lining protector as Jacks Jane says like Ranitidine -

Have you thought of coming to one of my forage identification days? I still have spaces on the 17th May.

There is athread about them somewhere on here . . . .

I'm in Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, so not South East or Southwest Midlands. I haven't seen it flower, i've only seen the leaves….so i'm guessing it's not coltsfoot and should be put on the compost?

I have certainly thought about coming to your forage identification days, but unfortunately I can't do either date :( I am hoping you will do it again at some point as I really would love to come!!

I will be buying your book in the meantime though :)

parsnipbun
02-05-2015, 05:52 PM
Bucks counts as southwest re climate for me! I just meant not north of midlands -
ours is beginning to come through so suspect yours is.

People generally dont notice the flowers - just the leave when it comes.

ImoT
02-05-2015, 06:10 PM
Bucks counts as southwest re climate for me! I just meant not north of midlands -
ours is beginning to come through so suspect yours is.

People generally dont notice the flowers - just the leave when it comes.

It's only very recently i've started to see it, so I guess its only just come through. I'll start giving some to Winston :)

keletkezes
03-05-2015, 07:37 PM
Just adding to the arum vote: looks just like the ones that have just come up in my garden! Hoping for no further symptoms :)