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Dinky - pulling fur from abdominal area - probably homonal

Bunny Buddy

Bunny Buddy

Wise Old Thumper
She's leaving clumps of what look like feathers on the carpet but it's not just from pulling dead fur out, there's too much of it and it's clumps.

It looks like it's been wet and dried badly although isn't yellow. She is dry underneath. Despite my best efforts I cannot pick her up and examine her underneath. I've managed to feel underneath when I'm cuddling her and she does appear to have some fairly bald patches.:? She was flinching when I tried to touch certain areas but I think that she was suspicious I was trying to pick her up rather than it being tender, but can't be 100% sure it wasn't a pain response. I did manage to see one patch and it looked slightly sore, possibly only from fur being pulled and nothing more sinister. Then I dangled some food at the top of her pen and got a really good look underneath her and it isn't really extensive but there is something not quite right. There was a bald patch higher up, chest area rather than abdominal.

She's behaving normally, friendly, eating well etc. No obvious signs of pain.

Obviously I'm taking her to the vets as soon as I can get a suitable appointment but as I'm worrying myself silly in the meantime - does it add up to anything in particular? She is spayed but I'm worrying about stuff like mammary tumours and such...

(She's c8 years old, was already spayed when I adopted her at age 5).

Thanks in anticipation for any insight.
 
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Bunny Buddy said:
She's leaving clumps of what look like feathers on the carpet but it's not just from pulling dead fur out, there's too much of it and it's clumps.

It looks like it's been wet and dried badly although isn't yellow. She is dry underneath. Despite my best efforts I cannot pick her up and examine her underneath. I've managed to feel underneath when I'm cuddling her and she does appear to have some fairly bald patches.:? She was flinching when I tried to touch certain areas but I think that she was suspicious I was trying to pick her up rather than it being tender, but can't be 100% sure it wasn't a pain response. I did manage to see one patch and it looked slightly sore, possibly only from fur being pulled and nothing more sinister. Then I dangled some food at the top of her pen and got a really good look underneath her and it isn't really extensive but there is something not quite right. There was a bald patch higher up, chest area rather than abdominal.

She's behaving normally, friendly, eating well etc. No obvious signs of pain.

Obviously I'm taking her to the vets as soon as I can get a suitable appointment but as I'm worrying myself silly in the meantime - does it add up to anything in particular? She is spayed but I'm worrying about stuff like mammary tumours and such...

(She's c8 years old, was already spayed when I adopted her at age 5).

Thanks in anticipation for any insight.
Click to expand...

Does she live alone? You haven't cleaned the carpet with anything different to normal? Have you seen her pulling at her fur at all?

Have her circumstances changed at all? New rabbit around? It couldn't be a phantom pregnancy?

It sounds like it may have been going a bit and not just today? Mammary tumours didn't spring immediately to mind. More a superficial skin irritation. You haven't felt any lumps and bumps around those bald patches? No mites anywhere on her?

Sorry not to have anything immediately jump out at me here. Let me know when you'll get to see the vet. I'll keep my thinking cap on, and in the meantime, I'll be sending loads of 'not to worry' vibes your way ...... ((( hugs ))) xxx
 
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Bunny Buddy said:
She's leaving clumps of what look like feathers on the carpet but it's not just from pulling dead fur out, there's too much of it and it's clumps.

It looks like it's been wet and dried badly although isn't yellow. She is dry underneath. Despite my best efforts I cannot pick her up and examine her underneath. I've managed to feel underneath when I'm cuddling her and she does appear to have some fairly bald patches.:? She was flinching when I tried to touch certain areas but I think that she was suspicious I was trying to pick her up rather than it being tender, but can't be 100% sure it wasn't a pain response. I did manage to see one patch and it looked slightly sore, possibly only from fur being pulled and nothing more sinister. Then I dangled some food at the top of her pen and got a really good look underneath her and it isn't really extensive but there is something not quite right. There was a bald patch higher up, chest area rather than abdominal.

She's behaving normally, friendly, eating well etc. No obvious signs of pain.

Obviously I'm taking her to the vets as soon as I can get a suitable appointment but as I'm worrying myself silly in the meantime - does it add up to anything in particular? She is spayed but I'm worrying about stuff like mammary tumours and such...

(She's c8 years old, was already spayed when I adopted her at age 5).

Thanks in anticipation for any insight.
Click to expand...

There are a few possibilities I suppose, but without being able to see the effected area its only going to be guesses as to what may be the cause. Does she actually pull at the area where the fur loss is occuring ? If so that might point toward some sort of skin irritation/discomfort. A psuedopregnancy is possible, even in a spayed Doe.

If she is not pulling at/ chewing herself and the clumps are just falling out then she may have previously gotten wet underneath (very dilute wee??) and this can dry causing the fur to clump. It will eventually fall out. Have you noticed any increase in her water intake recently ?

I wonder if there is anyone who could help you to check her under-carriage more thoroughly? It's just that with the warmer weather and the fact that Dinky *might* have been wet underneath at some stage I would want to make sure that there were no issues with damp/sore skin that could attract flies.

Hopefully the problem is minor and can be quickly sorted out. Great timing Dinky, with a Bank Holiday Weekend on the way !! Rabbits, dont they know how to raise our stress levels !
 
MightyMax said:
Does she live alone?

Yes, though other rabbits in the vicinity, no changes in set ups or company recently.

You haven't cleaned the carpet with anything different to normal?

Cleaning?:oops::oops: only the basics. No - I never use chemicals around my animals unless absolutely essential.

Have you seen her pulling at her fur at all?
No. She’s not behaving oddly in any way, nothing suggested (to me at least) that it’s a phantom pregnancy.

I haven't seen her 'bothering' with the area that's affected either, such as to suggest irritation etc.

It sounds like it may have been going a bit and not just today? Mammary tumours didn't spring immediately to mind. More a superficial skin irritation. You haven't felt any lumps and bumps around those bald patches? No mites anywhere on her?

I've seen the 'feathery bits' on the carpet for a week to ten days but in the last couple of days a lot more so.
Can’t feel or see any lumps, mites/skin irritation was high on my list before my imagination ran away with me (I always go worst case scenario first and work down:oops::oops::oops:). Haven’t seen her itching which I would expect but she obviously does to some extent given the lack of fluff underneath. When she had a wet chin in January she also had a dry scaly patch on her back and that was tested for mites, she didn't have any then, though obviously could have now and there could be a link to that wet patch/scaly patch, maybe.



Jack's-Jane said:
If she is not pulling at/ chewing herself and the clumps are just falling out then she may have previously gotten wet underneath (very dilute wee??) and this can dry causing the fur to clump. It will eventually fall out. Have you noticed any increase in her water intake recently ?

She’s always drunk a lot but no obvious increase. She's a really good hay eater, so I've assumed that's why she drinks a lot.

I wonder if there is anyone who could help you to check her under-carriage more thoroughly? It's just that with the warmer weather and the fact that Dinky *might* have been wet underneath at some stage I would want to make sure that there were no issues with damp/sore skin that could attract flies.

Even though I haven’t turned her over I’m now confident I’ve seen underneath her well. To reach the lid on the closed bit of her home she stands on a bench so I knelt down next to that and dangled dried plantain above her. For a good few minutes I could look at her underside and it’s clean and dry (bar a couple of small matty bits). For a rabbit that refuses so determinedly to be picked up she is very cuddly and if I kneel on the floor she comes and lies on my legs… several times a day. She’s never left any wet patches on me and she lays full length against my legs. It's also very, very controlled environment, I'm obsessive about flies:oops: I never leave doors open, just windows with fine mesh over them for the ventilation. I'll keep a close eye on her.

Thanks both. I'm hoping to get an appointment on Tuesday but will see which vet is working on Saturday as it's on a rota and may consider taking her tomorrow.... I will of course report back. I think my imagination was getting the better of me yesterday :oops::oops: Last July when Dinky had her vaccination FHB did the "wheelbarrow" thing with Dinky to see if her eyes bulged (they didn't) but I've been paranoid about every little thing since:oops:.. not that it takes much:oops:
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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So, Dinky had a thorough investigation today and some of my worse case scenarios are either ruled out or 'not likely'... no lumps or bumps suggestive of mammary tumours.

She had an x-ray in case it was displacement behaviour for pain and there is nothing confirmed on the x-ray and happily kidney stones have been ruled out, amongst many other things but the thought of that one will haunt me.

So, evidence points towards it being hormonal behaviour and her chest was described as looking like a doe who was having a phantom pregnancy.

The upshot, she's had a Tardak injection (apparently it's not a hormone but blocks hormones) so this should calm her down. Another possibility was an adrenal tumour - this should be helped by the Tardak but may at some point be investigated further. So it's wait and see and take her back if I continue to be concerned and a review in (I think 4-6 weeks but I'm forgotten that bit:oops:)
 
Jack's-Jane said:
Hope the treatment helps. IME Adrenal Disease in neutered Rabbits effects older (7+) Bucks more than Does :)
Click to expand...

Thanks. I told my vet I'd heard of adrenal tumours in bucks before but not does, she nodded but didn't elaborate.

We also went through a few scenarios such as ovaries being left behind during spay (Dinky was already spayed when I adopted her) but F felt it better to give injections (if needed) rather than going rooting around for anything left behind. I learnt a fair bit about how complex spaying actually is too, well worth paying the possible extra to have a rabbit savvy vet do it and not just go for the cheapest option.
 
Bunny Buddy said:
Thanks. I told my vet I'd heard of adrenal tumours in bucks before but not does, she nodded but didn't elaborate.

We also went through a few scenarios such as ovaries being left behind during spay (Dinky was already spayed when I adopted her) but F felt it better to give injections (if needed) rather than going rooting around for anything left behind. I learnt a fair bit about how complex spaying actually is too, well worth paying the possible extra to have a rabbit savvy vet do it and not just go for the cheapest option.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update BB and seems to be good news on the whole :thumb:

I have come across a few does who were not adequately spayed (put through rescue centres) but I totally agree with F about not rooting around for problems when you might be able to solve it with the injection.

It will be interesting to see whether this helps ..... Will it be a one off or may it need to be repeated if her behaviour returns at some point I wonder?

Thank you for the PM ..... interesting times ;)
 
It may (most probably, I got the impression) need repeating. It will vary hugely how long the injection lasts. it could be just 4-6 weeks or it could be 6 months. It could be 'cyclical', I took that to mean that it might just be a problem in spring and settle down for the rest of the year, not sure if that's the correct interpretation.

I did some Googling when I got home (as you do) and although most of the stuff I read refers to cats and dogs, couldn't find anything that refers to Tardak in rabbits, good job I trust my vet then(!)... but such a lot of it came back to cancer.:cry: I hope that this is me again doing 'worst case scenario'. *Hopefully* it's just an imbalance that needs addressing.

With the does that are not adequately spayed - is there a strong risk of cancer if the hormones are playing up? Or is this just a different consequence and not necessarily linked?

I can't explain how precious Dinky is. *sigh*.
 
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Bunny Buddy said:
It may (most probably, I got the impression) need repeating. It will vary hugely how long the injection lasts. it could be just 4-6 weeks or it could be 6 months. It could be 'cyclical', I took that to mean that it might just be a problem in spring and settle down for the rest of the year, not sure if that's the correct interpretation.

I did some Googling when I got home (as you do) and although most of the stuff I read refers to cats and dogs, couldn't find anything that refers to Tardak in rabbits, just job I trust my vet then(!)... but such a lot of it came back to cancer.:cry: I hope that this is me again doing 'worst case scenario'. *Hopefully* it's just an imbalance that needs addressing.

With the does that are not adequately spayed - is there a strong risk of cancer if the hormones are playing up? Or is this just a different consequence and not necessarily linked?

I can't explain how precious Dinky is. *sigh*.
Click to expand...

Incomplete spays are rare and are often due to some residual ovarian tissue being left insitu. Whilst in theory this could have the potential of causing issues later in life it is absolutely not inevitable. A blood profile to assess hormone levels would be an non invasive place to start if Dinky continued to exhibit problems. I am sure your Vet would not go wading in without doing that first :)
 
Jack's-Jane said:
Incomplete spays are rare and are often due to some residual ovarian tissue being left insitu. Whilst in theory this could have the potential of causing issues later in life it is absolutely not inevitable. A blood profile to assess hormone levels would be an non invasive place to start if Dinky continued to exhibit problems. I am sure your Vet would not go wading in without doing that first :)
Click to expand...

Thanks. I think this is just 90% my propensity to worry and 10% other :oops::oops:
 
Bunny Buddy said:
It may (most probably, I got the impression) need repeating. It will vary hugely how long the injection lasts. it could be just 4-6 weeks or it could be 6 months. It could be 'cyclical', I took that to mean that it might just be a problem in spring and settle down for the rest of the year, not sure if that's the correct interpretation.

I did some Googling when I got home (as you do) and although most of the stuff I read refers to cats and dogs, couldn't find anything that refers to Tardak in rabbits, just job I trust my vet then(!)... but such a lot of it came back to cancer.:cry: I hope that this is me again doing 'worst case scenario'. *Hopefully* it's just an imbalance that needs addressing.

With the does that are not adequately spayed - is there a strong risk of cancer if the hormones are playing up? Or is this just a different consequence and not necessarily linked?

I can't explain how precious Dinky is. *sigh*.
Click to expand...

Is this the first Spring you've had with Dinky or has she been with you a while? I ask just in case you've had her a few years and this is the first time you've encountered this issue.

Yes, we saw a fair few incomplete spays in female rescue rabbits, but thats only because there were hundreds of rabbits passing through. Also, it wasn't known whether some were spayed or not, so the op was done (given that the doe exhibited hormonal behaviour) only to find a not too complete job done. There may be many cases that are not found out about until this happens.

However, this shouldn't make you worry about a problem/issue that may not exist! I'm sure you've had great advice from someone who knows :) ... but could you ask her about perhaps a blood test (or a series of blood tests at different times) if the problem comes back? I'm hoping you'll at least get through a year without needing to think about it again for Dinky xx
 
I adopted Dinky in July 2013 at age 5. So this is the second spring she has been with me (feels like it should be more than that but that's what it says on her vaccination card!)

The previous owner had two female house rabbits that she to give up for adoption (she clearly loved them very much) but they lived separately... this could be a clue. I've never tried to bond Dinky though she does live in the vicinity of other rabbits.
 
Jack's-Jane said:
Will reply to your PM later today :D
Click to expand...

Thanks Jane. Really appreciate your valuable feedback.


Dinky has been in really good spirits since her vet trip. I forgot to ask how soon the blocker would work but she does seem to have stopped the hair pulling. I could be imagining it but she seems to be wanting my attention more as if she isn't 'distracted' as maybe she has been recently. :D
 
Bunny Buddy said:
Thanks Jane. Really appreciate your valuable feedback.


Dinky has been in really good spirits since her vet trip. I forgot to ask how soon the blocker would work but she does seem to have stopped the hair pulling. I could be imagining it but she seems to be wanting my attention more as if she isn't 'distracted' as maybe she has been recently. :D
Click to expand...

That's great news !! :D
 
Bunny Buddy said:
Thanks Jane. Really appreciate your valuable feedback.


Dinky has been in really good spirits since her vet trip. I forgot to ask how soon the blocker would work but she does seem to have stopped the hair pulling. I could be imagining it but she seems to be wanting my attention more as if she isn't 'distracted' as maybe she has been recently. :D
Click to expand...

This is really great news :thumb:
 
MightyMax said:
This is really great news :thumb:
Click to expand...

Thank you. She probably (looking back) did seem more distant recently but I didn't realise it until she started wanting to engage with me all the time again. She has been sunbathing a lot since the weather changed, I think I put it down to her spending time on her favourite hobby. :lol:
 
:( I've started finding tufts of fluff about the place again in the last couple of days. She seems alright in herself but she's going back for a follow up next week. My vet's having a think in the meantime as to how she wants to proceed. It's probably better to carry on with injections but she *may* had a scan to look for any tumours that might be causing this. Hopefully nothing too invasive will be required..... I hope so.
 
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