EC novice, worried

bigwigbunny · Apr 29, 2015

hi my gorgeous bun bigwig is 6 years old and recently has been having occasional issues with mobility of his back right leg. otherwise he is fine, happy lively, eating, drinking, pooping etc movement problems are not everyday and don't last for longer than a minute before he manages to get the movement back (although it seems like an eternity). my vet prescribed panacur, he has not been tested for ec due to the difficulties of getting a diagnosis until ec is well established, so we do not know for certain that this is the problem. i have been daily sterilising his poop tray (he is a house bun, so no hutch), we are on day 16 of the course and so far i have seen no change in his condition and i am worried as to whether i should be getting him checked for anything else. i am taking him back to the vets tomorrow and i want to make sure i push for anything that might help. thank you i really appreciate any advice i get.

Jack's-Jane · Apr 29, 2015

Has the Vet ruled out arthritis ? The symptoms you describe and the fact that Bigwig is a large breed aged 6 makes arthritis of the spine/hips a real possibility. If your Vet did not prescribe a non steroidal anti-inflammatory eg Metacam then it is not really surprising that you have not seen any improvement. Whether Bigwig's problems are EC related or arthritis related both conditions result in inflammation and it is the inflammation that causes the clinical symptoms.

Personally I'd take Bigwig back to the Vets to discuss both the diagnosis (ie could arthritis be more likely than EC) and also to request that Bigwig is prescribed a non steroidal anti-inflammatory to be given daily.

Have you checked BW's hocks ? Giants with hind leg weakness can develop sore hocks as a secondary problem.

Good luck at the Vets xx

bigwigbunny · Apr 29, 2015

Jack's-Jane said:
Has the Vet ruled out arthritis ? The symptoms you describe and the fact that Bigwig is a large breed aged 6 makes arthritis of the spine/hips a real possibility. If your Vet did not prescribe a non steroidal anti-inflammatory eg Metacam then it is not really surprising that you have not seen any improvement. Whether Bigwig's problems are EC related or arthritis related both conditions result in inflammation and it is the inflammation that causes the clinical symptoms.

Personally I'd take Bigwig back to the Vets to discuss both the diagnosis (ie could arthritis be more likely than EC) and also to request that Bigwig is prescribed a non steroidal anti-inflammatory to be given daily.

Have you checked BW's hocks ? Giants with hind leg weakness can develop sore hocks as a secondary problem.

Good luck at the Vets xx

thank you i will talk to the vet about arthritis and sounds like he needs metacam either way so i will be coming home with some of that! thankyou bigwig is such a special bunny (aren't they all) and is my world so will do whatever it takes to get him right again xx

i forget to say his hocks are a little sore so the advice you have given sounds spot on

Jack's-Jane · Apr 29, 2015

bigwigbunny said:
thank you i will talk to the vet about arthritis and sounds like he needs metacam either way so i will be coming home with some of that! thankyou bigwig is such a special bunny (aren't they all) and is my world so will do whatever it takes to get him right again xx

i forget to say his hocks are a little sore so the advice you have given sounds spot on

Giants do appear to be prone to age related arthritis in their spine/hips. Sometimes the only obvious sign is gradual muscle wastage at the rear end. Eventually this leads to loss of power of the hind legs and the Bunny can become a bit unsteady on their feet. As with arthritis in humans it can be better on some days, worse on others. But I would put quite a hefty bet on arthritis being the primary issue for Bigwig.

If this is confirmed then as well as Metacam BW may benefit from acupuncture and/or physiotherapy. With regards to his hocks, carpet can be a problem once fur loss over the hocks has occurred. Carpet being very abrasive. So if BW spends a lot of time on carpet you may need to have a think about how best to manage things. One option could be to cover the carpeted area he spends most time on with a cotton sheet. This would be less abrasive than carpet fibre.

bigwigbunny · Apr 30, 2015

update: bigwig back safe and sound from the vets. had an xray done and he has Spondylosis. we are going to finish the panacur course for the EC as this seems to make sense just in case and now have him on metacam. another vet visit booked for 10 days time to see how he's doing

jack's- jane, acupuncture and physio also seem like a great course of action, so will now investigate where i can get this done in my area. i have been worried about what is the best surface for him to move about on as he is on carpet most of the time and a sheet is something that i am definitely going to do as soon as i've posted this

i really am most grateful for your reply's - helped keep me calm and hopefully i will now be doing the right things for my little boy xx

MightyMax · Apr 30, 2015

bigwigbunny said:
update: bigwig back safe and sound from the vets. had an xray done and he has Spondylosis. we are going to finish the panacur course for the EC as this seems to make sense just in case and now have him on metacam. another vet visit booked for 10 days time to see how he's doing

jack's- jane, acupuncture and physio also seem like a great course of action, so will now investigate where i can get this done in my area. i have been worried about what is the best surface for him to move about on as he is on carpet most of the time and a sheet is something that i am definitely going to do as soon as i've posted this

i really am most grateful for your reply's - helped keep me calm and hopefully i will now be doing the right things for my little boy xx

Awww it sounds like he's going to get excellent care :thumb:

Some buns freak out at acupuncture. It all depends on their temperament. But in my experience, they get to love physio

Have you asked your vet about alternative supplements? I've had my buns on Glucosamine and Chondroitin supplements in the past, as well as homeopathic pain killers. Saves having long term Metacam which can damage kidneys.

Vet bed is a good surface, as it's soft on hocks and also gives some traction. A sheet is good but can be a bit slippery. I should experiment and see what suits him best xx

Jack's-Jane · Apr 30, 2015

bigwigbunny said:
update: bigwig back safe and sound from the vets. had an xray done and he has Spondylosis. we are going to finish the panacur course for the EC as this seems to make sense just in case and now have him on metacam. another vet visit booked for 10 days time to see how he's doing

jack's- jane, acupuncture and physio also seem like a great course of action, so will now investigate where i can get this done in my area. i have been worried about what is the best surface for him to move about on as he is on carpet most of the time and a sheet is something that i am definitely going to do as soon as i've posted this

i really am most grateful for your reply's - helped keep me calm and hopefully i will now be doing the right things for my little boy xx

I suspected that a spinal problem was more likely, but finishing the course of Panacur wont do any harm. So pleased that he is now on Metacam, I hope that you will see an improvement after a few doses

bigwigbunny · May 2, 2015

Jack's-Jane said:
I suspected that a spinal problem was more likely, but finishing the course of Panacur wont do any harm. So pleased that he is now on Metacam, I hope that you will see an improvement after a few doses

i can report a massive improvement, i am so happy! when i got up this morning bigwig greeted me with running and leaps - i cuddled him straight away, partly because i was so happy and partly because i was nervous in his exuberance he might hurt himself lol. what a difference. now to long term manage the situation and use all the wonderful ideas you have given me. thank you again so much

MightyMax · May 2, 2015

bigwigbunny said:
i can report a massive improvement, i am so happy! when i got up this morning bigwig greeted me with running and leaps - i cuddled him straight away, partly because i was so happy and partly because i was nervous in his exuberance he might hurt himself lol. what a difference. now to long term manage the situation and use all the wonderful ideas you have given me. thank you again so much

I'm so glad he has improved! You're very welcome for any help we can give

I hope ongoing he stays well - he seems very happy right now, lovely boy

Jack's-Jane · May 2, 2015

bigwigbunny said:
i can report a massive improvement, i am so happy! when i got up this morning bigwig greeted me with running and leaps - i cuddled him straight away, partly because i was so happy and partly because i was nervous in his exuberance he might hurt himself lol. what a difference. now to long term manage the situation and use all the wonderful ideas you have given me. thank you again so much

You are welcome, whilst I obviously didn't want him to have an arthritic condition I suspected it would be more likely than EC. I am so glad that Bigwig has responded so well to the Metacam xx

bigwigbunny · May 13, 2015

sorry to be back worrying again. bigwig has taken a backward slide since the initial improvement. my vet upped his metacam dosage to 0.4ml twice a day (he started on 0.4 ml once a day) he weighs 6kg. (he finished the panacur 28 course a couple of days ago.) he has been on the twice daily dose of metacam for a couple of days now but his back leg weakness instead of being intermittent is now almost all the time. he loses balance and does a lot more walking rather than hopping than before. i am worried as he seems to be having more trouble now than ever. i am concerned that the metacam isn't working and whether i should be looking to do something else for him. thanks once again for listening x

magically · May 13, 2015

Did you bleach the hutch on the days you're meant to? I can't remember which days it is... is it days 7 and 21? Jane will know.

Jack's-Jane · May 13, 2015

bigwigbunny said:
had an xray done and he has Spondylosis.

Spondylosis is a degenerative condition so it is likely that symptoms will worsen over time. The dose of Metacam he is on is extremely low. How Rabbit Savvy is your Vet ? I ask as some less Rabbit Savvy Vets do tend to under dose with Metacam. Rabbits have a faster clearance rate of meloxicam (the active ingredient in Metacam )

The dose range for Meloxicam is usually 0.3mg-0.6mg/kg/day. If using the DOG Metacam (1.5mg/ml) this equates to 0.2ml-0.4ml/kg/day. Much more than BW is on, even given that he is on 12 hourly doses. However, please do not simply increase his dose based on what I have'said' here. I am not qualified to advise you to do so. Only a Vet can do that.

Has Bigwig had any Acupuncture or Physio yet ?

If you have any doubts about how Rabbit savvy your Vet is maybe you could request a referral to a Specialist for a second opinion ?

MightyMax · May 13, 2015

magically said:
Did you bleach the hutch on the days you're meant to? I can't remember which days it is... is it days 7 and 21? Jane will know.

It's days 21 and 28 of Panacur treatment x

MightyMax · May 13, 2015

bigwigbunny said:
sorry to be back worrying again. bigwig has taken a backward slide since the initial improvement. my vet upped his metacam dosage to 0.4ml twice a day (he started on 0.4 ml once a day) he weighs 6kg. (he finished the panacur 28 course a couple of days ago.) he has been on the twice daily dose of metacam for a couple of days now but his back leg weakness instead of being intermittent is now almost all the time. he loses balance and does a lot more walking rather than hopping than before. i am worried as he seems to be having more trouble now than ever. i am concerned that the metacam isn't working and whether i should be looking to do something else for him. thanks once again for listening x

I can appreciate your vet not wanting to raise the dosage of Metacam right now, as it's very hard on the kidneys. Long term you would not want a second problem of kidney damage in addition, if you could help it.

Here's a thread by another Forum member, who's rabbit also has spondylosis :

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...*spondylosis-confirmed*&highlight=spondylosis

magically · May 13, 2015

MightyMax said:
It's days 21 and 28 of Panacur treatment x

Thank you!! I thought that initially but then thought no that's too close together. Thankfully, never been in the position myself.

MightyMax · May 13, 2015

magically said:
Thank you!! I thought that initially but then thought no that's too close together. Thankfully, never been in the position myself.

You're welcome :thumb:

Long may you not be in that position!!

bigwigbunny · May 13, 2015

my vet is rabbit savvy but not giants savvy and i know things can be a little different for them. she wanted to start the metacam (it is dog metacam) low and increase gradually as he's likely to need to be on it long term and wants to protect his kidneys. i will now ask for it to be increased and see if that helps - although my vet is good imo there is nothing beats the wealth of experience found on this forum - first hand bunny lovers that have probably seen more than any vet could. sounds like i would be taking the right step to call her today and get his dosage slightly increased, thankyou

i am not worried about ec atm as i don't believe this is his problem anymore but i did finish the course and he is a house rabbit so has no hutch but i overkilled on disinfecting his tray (after each use lol)

i have been looking for a rabbit experienced in physio in my area (really would prefer one that i could get from a recommendation) but so far not found one close, i will keep looking for one

acupuncture i found someone that is good, recommended and will come to my house (definite bonus) but would prefer to do that option last as bigwig would i think find that the most difficult of the treatments

right now time to ring the vets and get him more help -thankyou xx

MightyMax · May 13, 2015

bigwigbunny said:
my vet is rabbit savvy but not giants savvy and i know things can be a little different for them. she wanted to start the metacam (it is dog metacam) low and increase gradually as he's likely to need to be on it long term and wants to protect his kidneys. i will now ask for it to be increased and see if that helps - although my vet is good imo there is nothing beats the wealth of experience found on this forum - first hand bunny lovers that have probably seen more than any vet could. sounds like i would be taking the right step to call her today and get his dosage slightly increased, thankyou

i am not worried about ec atm as i don't believe this is his problem anymore but i did finish the course and he is a house rabbit so has no hutch but i overkilled on disinfecting his tray (after each use lol)

i have been looking for a rabbit experienced in physio in my area (really would prefer one that i could get from a recommendation) but so far not found one close, i will keep looking for one acupuncture i found someone that is good, recommended and will come to my house (definite bonus) but would prefer to do that option last as bigwig would i think find that the most difficult of the treatments

right now time to ring the vets and get him more help -thankyou xx

Aaawww you're very welcome! Good luck with the vet x

Jack's-Jane · May 14, 2015

bigwigbunny said:
my vet is rabbit savvy but not giants savvy and i know things can be a little different for them. she wanted to start the metacam (it is dog metacam) low and increase gradually as he's likely to need to be on it long term and wants to protect his kidneys. i will now ask for it to be increased and see if that helps - although my vet is good imo there is nothing beats the wealth of experience found on this forum - first hand bunny lovers that have probably seen more than any vet could. sounds like i would be taking the right step to call her today and get his dosage slightly increased, thankyou

i am not worried about ec atm as i don't believe this is his problem anymore but i did finish the course and he is a house rabbit so has no hutch but i overkilled on disinfecting his tray (after each use lol)

i have been looking for a rabbit experienced in physio in my area (really would prefer one that i could get from a recommendation) but so far not found one close, i will keep looking for one acupuncture i found someone that is good, recommended and will come to my house (definite bonus) but would prefer to do that option last as bigwig would i think find that the most difficult of the treatments

right now time to ring the vets and get him more help -thankyou xx

I hope that the Vet was able to help. Even if BW cannot cope with Acupuncture then just physio could still prove to be very beneficial. As can massage. My Vet does Acupuncture and she has taught me all the AP points which can be focused on when giving massage. Most Rabbits really seem to enjoy massage

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