E.C - Update and further advice please

Hi

I wrote recently about patch my 8 year old rabbit who has been receiving treatment for possible E.C.

His treatment is up next week - 28 day course of antibiotics, panacur and metacam. He is back at the vet tomorrow morning to get checked over, nails clipped etc. He has been doing well, although he has days were it seems quite bad. I tried to take him off the metacam when it was nearly finished however the following day he was really tilted to one side and that twitch in the eye was also bad so the vet agreed to let me carry on with metacam.

Im just wondering what is next? I assume the antibiotics and panacur have killed any parasite or infection? So hopefully preventing any further damage. I'm unsure about him coming off all the meds completely, is there a chance he can stay on metacam or is that not good for rabbits?

Also I am off on holiday for 5 days at the beginning of May and if he still needs medication each day I'm going to need to find someone to look after him properly, does anyone know of any boarding in Edinburgh, West Lothian or Fife area or anyone who could help with this?

Thanks all

lisaam said:

Hi

I wrote recently about patch my 8 year old rabbit who has been receiving treatment for possible E.C.

His treatment is up next week - 28 day course of antibiotics, panacur and metacam. He is back at the vet tomorrow morning to get checked over, nails clipped etc. He has been doing well, although he has days were it seems quite bad. I tried to take him off the metacam when it was nearly finished however the following day he was really tilted to one side and that twitch in the eye was also bad so the vet agreed to let me carry on with metacam.

Im just wondering what is next? I assume the antibiotics and panacur have killed any parasite or infection? So hopefully preventing any further damage. I'm unsure about him coming off all the meds completely, is there a chance he can stay on metacam or is that not good for rabbits?

Also I am off on holiday for 5 days at the beginning of May and if he still needs medication each day I'm going to need to find someone to look after him properly, does anyone know of any boarding in Edinburgh, West Lothian or Fife area or anyone who could help with this?

Thanks all

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Hi there

Did you bleach the hutches/litter trays with a 10% bleach solution on days 21 and 28 of treatment? Or else steam clean?

It's very important to make sure they don't reinfect themselves by ingesting E.C. spores in the urine etc ....

Ask your vet about prolonging the Metacam. It is very hard on the kidneys, but if there's good reason then the benefits will outweigh the risks.

You could try switching to steroid injections as these can be more effective. You'll have to give him a couple of days without metacam first though so that would be difficult nursing wise.

lisaam said:

Hi

I wrote recently about patch my 8 year old rabbit who has been receiving treatment for possible E.C.

His treatment is up next week - 28 day course of antibiotics, panacur and metacam. He is back at the vet tomorrow morning to get checked over, nails clipped etc. He has been doing well, although he has days were it seems quite bad. I tried to take him off the metacam when it was nearly finished however the following day he was really tilted to one side and that twitch in the eye was also bad so the vet agreed to let me carry on with metacam.

Im just wondering what is next? I assume the antibiotics and panacur have killed any parasite or infection? So hopefully preventing any further damage. I'm unsure about him coming off all the meds completely, is there a chance he can stay on metacam or is that not good for rabbits?

Also I am off on holiday for 5 days at the beginning of May and if he still needs medication each day I'm going to need to find someone to look after him properly, does anyone know of any boarding in Edinburgh, West Lothian or Fife area or anyone who could help with this?

Thanks all

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The Vet may feel that it is necessary to keep him on all medication for longer. Was he blood tested for EC or was it a presumed diagnosis ? Has he had any diagnostics at all ? I ask as what else the Vet may do would really depend on what the actual problem is-ie EC or bacterial middle ear infection.

I am afraid I cant help re recommendations for Boarding in your area. I would start another thread in Rabbit Chat asking about it as more people are likely to see it there. Hope all goes well at the Vets today xx

Hi,

Our bunny Mini had head tilt back in January and is still taking metacam every day. To be fair, she was already taking it daily for another condition anyway, but we've stuck to the higher dose she was taking during the head tilt. She had panacur, stemetil (anti-dizziness) & septrin (antibiotics) for around 6 weeks. We didn't ever get a confirmed diagnosis but it was presumed to be an ear infection.

I'm in Glasgow so can't recommend a boarder near you, but I found our pet sitter & the boarder we use now have both been happy to give meds, especially as we just add the metacam to her pellets & she gobbles it up no bother. Our vets actually took her in as a boarder while we were away for a weekend when she was still quite poorly too.

Hope he's feeling better soon! Mini has retained a bit of a tilted head, but isn't bothered by it & is still improving every day


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Vet said to try and take him off the metacam but obviously if he gets worse and it helps then to put him back on it. He said the antibiotic and panacur should have killed the parasite by now but technically he hasn't had a full 28 day course so i'm carrying on for another week. He is really struggling to walk straight tonight without constantly going in circles so I have given him some metacam again as he hasn't had any for two days now.

The vet didn't test him it was just presumed that's what it was, no issues with his teeth and with his age and other issues being completely blind etc they just treated him for E.C with the antibiotics also for any infection if there was one. I'll just need to see how he goes I just find it heartbreaking when he is running in circles, feel like I should just put him out his misery as it must be frustrating for him but then at times he hops about like a normally bunny which changes my mind. I have cleaned the cage thoroughly now after a previous post to avoid further infection (hopefully).

I'll try post on another thread about boarding, thanks all

but then at times he hops about like a normally bunny which changes my mind.

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If you have times when he improves then I think there's still a chance he may recover so I think it good that you keep treating him. From what I've read a lot of people believe the steroids can weaken the immune system so they often aren't used unless its an extreme case like broken bones. Metacam is supposed to be safer for long term. Some people keep there elderly bunnies with arthritis on low doses of metacam for years and they continue to live.

lisaam said:

Vet said to try and take him off the metacam but obviously if he gets worse and it helps then to put him back on it. He said the antibiotic and panacur should have killed the parasite by now but technically he hasn't had a full 28 day course so i'm carrying on for another week. He is really struggling to walk straight tonight without constantly going in circles so I have given him some metacam again as he hasn't had any for two days now.

The vet didn't test him it was just presumed that's what it was, no issues with his teeth and with his age and other issues being completely blind etc they just treated him for E.C with the antibiotics also for any infection if there was one. I'll just need to see how he goes I just find it heartbreaking when he is running in circles, feel like I should just put him out his misery as it must be frustrating for him but then at times he hops about like a normally bunny which changes my mind. I have cleaned the cage thoroughly now after a previous post to avoid further infection (hopefully).

I'll try post on another thread about boarding, thanks all

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I can understand your vet being cautious about continuing with the Metacam, as it can be very hard on the kidneys. E.C. itself (if it's that and not something else) is also hard on the kidneys so I see where he's going.

Is the vet as sure as he can be that it isn't an ear infection? Is he eating and pooping well? If it is an ear infection he would most likely be in pain so you would know by his eating habits ...

I hope all settles down for your little one and he has more times hopping straight than going in circles xx

lisaam said:

Vet said to try and take him off the metacam but obviously if he gets worse and it helps then to put him back on it. He said the antibiotic and panacur should have killed the parasite by now but technically he hasn't had a full 28 day course so i'm carrying on for another week. He is really struggling to walk straight tonight without constantly going in circles so I have given him some metacam again as he hasn't had any for two days now.

The vet didn't test him it was just presumed that's what it was, no issues with his teeth and with his age and other issues being completely blind etc they just treated him for E.C with the antibiotics also for any infection if there was one. I'll just need to see how he goes I just find it heartbreaking when he is running in circles, feel like I should just put him out his misery as it must be frustrating for him but then at times he hops about like a normally bunny which changes my mind. I have cleaned the cage thoroughly now after a previous post to avoid further infection (hopefully).

I'll try post on another thread about boarding, thanks all

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I am sorry to hear that your Rabbit is still struggling at times. If the return of the 'circling' occurred as a direct result of stopping the Metacam then it does seem to point to their being inflammation within the brain/CNS. As there *might* have been a risk of him reinfecting himself with EC spores (which would have been spread via his wee) then I would ask the Vet if you can keep him on Panacur for longer. Personally I'd do daily bleach cleans/steam cleans too. Some people consider this to be rather extreme, but it is what I always do. A 'personal opinion' so-to-speak !
Whilst the actual EC protozoal parasite is excreted from the Rabbit before clinical symptoms appear the spores which it leaves behind are what can cause ongoing cellular damage should they erupt into the cells of varies organs/the CNS. The cellular damage erupting EC spores cause result in the development of clinical symptoms. The idea of giving Panacur is to reduce the number of EC spores rather than to 'kill the parasite' (which as I have said will already have been excreted from the Rabbit, so it's not there to'kill').

What is his eating and output like and is he having a good fluid intake ?

Do you know the cause of his blindness ? Eye problems can also be associated with EC. In such cases some researchers believe that EC infection has often occurred in utero, the EC spores entering the developing lenses of the foetus. This then goes on to cause various ocular problems

I am wondering if your Vet may consider running a blood test to try to differentiate between a bacterial infection (often pasteurellosis) and EC.

'Hematology can be useful in differentiating between E. cuniculi and P. multocida infections. No hematologic changes are associated with E. cuniculi infection, but patients with pasteurellosis often have neutrophilia and left shift.16 Radiography of the head may show changes in the tympanic bullae associated with chronic otitis media due to P. multocida infection. Serology is useful only for ruling out pathogens, as a high percentage of rabbits have been exposed to one of these pathogens'.

Extract taken from here :

http://www.vetfolio.com/parasitology/encephalitozoon-cuniculi-infection-in-rabbits

If you think he's fighting - eating/drinking/pooping if he can & bearing in mind he might need some help - then it's worth persevering. Mini got to the point where she could barely stand, and had to be briefly syringe fed. The vet thought we should consider pts but throughout she was bright & alert so we carried on & she soon rounded a corner & began improving.

I think it's probably worse for us to see than it is for the buns to experience.

Our vet gave us steroids but after reading about the risks we didn't use as I didn't feel we were at the point of last resort.



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Also if you feel you want to keep him on the panacur, you can just buy it. Pets at Home stock it, you just need an appropriately qualified staff member to be around. I did this because my vets couldn't provide the paste, which was easier to administer for us.


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