Dental Pain/UD Its kidney failure :-( U/D shes gone :-(

After recovering from a two week long episode of stasis Daisy relapsed on Friday. She is now stable and on prokinetics, pain relief and critical care feed.

She relapsed just after eating a pile of forage, was lying on her side in pain. I rushed her to the vet and her heart and lungs were ok and she had pooed in the carrier. She had vetergesic and calmed down a lot.

On reflection there were signs of her mouth causing her pain, moving her head into different positions when eating and only eating forage, herbs and veg - no pellets. The emergency vet 2 weeks ago thought he could see a small spike but my vet couldn't really see it.

So, she is booked in for a dental exam, bloods and x rays tomorrow. I'm really scared of the sedation meanwhile she takes her recovery feed well but will not touch anything else.

Does this sound like dental pain? She is 9 and never had an issue before, her eyes are clear and no dribbles.

During the last two week episode of stasis she did start to eat for herself gradually, but I'm wondering if her mouth is too sore, maybe she caught it on a spur while eating the forage Friday?

This is all new to me, my vet suggested the dental exam in order to see her back teeth properly, she said she will run a rasp over them even if they look ok and then do x rays. This seems like a sensible thing to be doing. Is there anything else I could have missed?

Oh blimey Julia, you are having a stressful time It could well be that Daisy has some mouth pain, the small spike noted by one of the Vets may have gotten a bit bigger during her anorexia. Then maybe it scratched her tongue/cheek whilst eating the forage ?

Running a blood profile is certainly a good idea, just to make sure that her kidneys and Liver are functioning well.

The other thought that comes to mind is ear pain, so whilst she's under sedation maybe the Vet could have a good look in her ears too. Having had a few Rabbits with chronic ear problems I have learned that ear pain does not always present in obvious ways.

Sending lots of vibes for Daisy for tomorrow xx

Jack's-Jane said:

Oh blimey Julia, you are having a stressful time It could well be that Daisy has some mouth pain, the small spike noted by one of the Vets may have gotten a bit bigger during her anorexia. Then maybe it scratched her tongue/cheek whilst eating the forage ?

Running a blood profile is certainly a good idea, just to make sure that her kidneys and Liver are functioning well.

The other thought that comes to mind is ear pain, so whilst she's under sedation maybe the Vet could have a good look in her ears too. Having had a few Rabbits with chronic ear problems I have learned that ear pain does not always present in obvious ways.

Sending lots of vibes for Daisy for tomorrow xx

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Thanks Jane. Those were my thoughts ref the spike. Yes they will do the bloods before they sedate for the dental. Ears - good thought!! I saw her look down them by eye but will ask her to look with a scope. Thanks also for the vibes for Daisy, sedation terrifies me as you know, but I think we are in a place where there is no other choice, we have to investigate the cause otherwise she will keep relapsing xx

Julia123 said:

Thanks Jane. Those were my thoughts ref the spike. Yes they will do the bloods before they sedate for the dental. Ears - good thought!! I saw her look down them by eye but will ask her to look with a scope. Thanks also for the vibes for Daisy, sedation terrifies me as you know, but I think we are in a place where there is no other choice, we have to investigate the cause otherwise she will keep relapsing xx

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Oh Julia I'm sorry to read this!

It sounds like you've got all bases covered with the vets tomorrow. Dental pain is certainly one of the primary causes of a bunny not eating.

Wishing you all the vibes in the world for your visit tomorrow :wave:

One of the other interesting things that came up at the FHB talk was that there is a major nerve which runs through the lower jaw and is protected as it passes close to the teeth roots (my anatomy probably isn't explaining this right). If the protective shield gets damaged and there is tooth root overgrowth, that can cause dental pain even if the tops of the teeth look fine, because of the pressure on the nerve in the jaw. Might also be something to bear in mind on x-raying.

Good luck, hope your little one is ok and you can work out what is going on and how to fix it/keep her comfy xx

Santa said:

One of the other interesting things that came up at the FHB talk was that there is a major nerve which runs through the lower jaw and is protected as it passes close to the teeth roots (my anatomy probably isn't explaining this right). If the protective shield gets damaged and there is tooth root overgrowth, that can cause dental pain even if the tops of the teeth look fine, because of the pressure on the nerve in the jaw. Might also be something to bear in mind on x-raying.

Good luck, hope your little one is ok and you can work out what is going on and how to fix it/keep her comfy xx

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David Crossley mentioned that to me during a consult.

http://www.dacross.uk/

Julia, I really hope all goes well for Daisy today. Nose rubs being sent for her xx

It wasn't her teeth, the blood tests revealed kidney failure

Oh no, poor Daisy. Is it manageable with medication?

Julia123 said:

It wasn't her teeth, the blood tests revealed kidney failure

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Oh no, I am sorry to hear this. Has the Vet indicated how severe ? Also, has she suggested any treatment options. There are a few for CRF

Sending hugs your way, I know that you must be very upset

sending hugs xx

I am so sorry it was bad news. Hugs xxx

Shes been prescribed fortekor and is to stay on ranitidine and lower her metacam, have asked the vet to find out about tramadol as a substitute for metacam.

I'm assuming I now need to feed a low calcium, low phosphorus, low oxalate diet? I need to read up......

She is scoffing pak choi and brambles right now, yes I am upset and stressed, but Ive just been through this finding out that Fandango has a terminal solid mass tumor.... and what Ive learnt is that I need to support them and keep them happy, comfy and content, free of pain and able to enjoy life. My heart feels like it will pump out of my chest I am so stressed, but looking at her little face nomming on pak choi, I have to be strong for her. I have no idea if pak choi is high calcium! I need to do lots of research.

Stasis is likely to be a constant reminder of her condition but so long as she is comfy I can maintain her through episodes.

Any advice would be greaty appreciated

PS vet did tell me the levels but they didn't sink in and I don't want to know, I will judge by how she deals with it

I don't know anything about kidney failure in rabbits, but I do know that they very much live in the now, and they won't have a clue that they are ill. I really hope they can both remain stable and happy for a long time to come :thumb:

Julia123 said:

It wasn't her teeth, the blood tests revealed kidney failure

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I'm so sorry Julia

Depending on what the results are, there are things the vet can do to help.

Sending you strength at this difficult time xxx

Julia123 said:

Shes been prescribed fortekor and is to stay on ranitidine and lower her metacam, have asked the vet to find out about tramadol as a substitute for metacam.

I'm assuming I now need to feed a low calcium, low phosphorus, low oxalate diet? I need to read up......

She is scoffing pak choi and brambles right now, yes I am upset and stressed, but Ive just been through this finding out that Fandango has a terminal solid mass tumor.... and what Ive learnt is that I need to support them and keep them happy, comfy and content, free of pain and able to enjoy life. My heart feels like it will pump out of my chest I am so stressed, but looking at her little face nomming on pak choi, I have to be strong for her. I have no idea if pak choi is high calcium! I need to do lots of research.

Stasis is likely to be a constant reminder of her condition but so long as she is comfy I can maintain her through episodes.

Any advice would be greaty appreciated

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I've only just seen your update ..... I'm glad she is on Fortekor. Has the vet talked about sub -Q fluids? It's a debatable point but I did this regularly for my rabbit and he loved it - it perked him up.

To see them happy is all that matters. I remember when my rabbit was diagnosed with advanced kidney failure, when he came back from the vets he just ran straight out of the carrier to nom at my rosemary bush, as he always did when he was cross with me

Lots of love xxx

MightyMax said:

I've only just seen your update ..... I'm glad she is on Fortekor. Has the vet talked about sub -Q fluids? It's a debatable point but I did this regularly for my rabbit and he loved it - it perked him up.

To see them happy is all that matters. I remember when my rabbit was diagnosed with advanced kidney failure, when he came back from the vets he just ran straight out of the carrier to nom at my rosemary bush, as he always did when he was cross with me

Lots of love xxx

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I've just emailed to see if she will let me have the SC 'kit' at home.

What diet was your bun on Mighty Max? Did you reduce calcium and phosphates? Or is it better to 'balance' them? Oxalates will have to go I would assume....

She's now scoffing a small piece of apple - I dont usually allow fruit, but it seems a safe option with high water content.

She's not giving up and neither am I !! xx

Yes Zoobec, this is what I am telling myself. It hurts a little too much right now but that thought is one I keep pulling to the front of my mind x

Thinking of you Julia. xx

I hope that Daisy's condition can be managed so that she can remain happy and comfortable for as long as possible. xx

Julia123 said:

I've just emailed to see if she will let me have the SC 'kit' at home.

What diet was your bun on Mighty Max? Did you reduce calcium and phosphates? Or is it better to 'balance' them? Oxalates will have to go I would assume....

She's now scoffing a small piece of apple - I dont usually allow fruit, but it seems a safe option with high water content.

She's not giving up and neither am I !! xx

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I reduced calcium and phosphates by reducing and eventually cutting out pellets. I gave as much fresh veg/wet forage as possible to maximise water intake. I cut out all the stuff like carrots, tomatoes and bananas (I never actually fed tomatoes anyway).

He also had a multivitamin injection and an anabolic steroid injection. He also stayed at the vets initially for three days of I/V fluids. He was much better after that, and my continuing sub-Q fluids ..... If you've not done it before you'll need the vet nurse to show you how.

I know the feeling of having one ailing, and then another. It can feel like a black cloud. But when you see their happy little faces and hops you realise they aren't thinking about how long they've got to live. They are just enjoying 'now'. It's a lesson isn't it?