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Recovery from incisor removal.... Update: Scooby now eating pellets...YAY!!

T

Tracy

Warren Veteran
I just wondered how long it has taken other people's rabbits to recover from incisor extraction and resume normal eating.

Scooby had his incisors removed a week ago and he is still not eating pellets and hay. He will eat herbs, freshly picked grass, dandelion leaves etc. He’s grooming himself, so I’m not sure that mouth pain is an issue.

He is on 0.8ml metacam twice a day (top end dose for his weight). Emeprid and Zantac twice a day. I am syringe feeding him the correct daily amount of Oxbow critical care for his weight. If he does eat, then I am adjusting the syringe feeds accordingly.

This is how he has progressed so far:

He had his incisors removed on Tuesday. It went very well and they came out cleanly. His molars were checked too, he had one slightly sharp edge burred.
He didn’t eat for himself on Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning
He began to eat herbs on Wednesday afternoon
He started eating pellets on Wednesday night and through Thursday, I continued to top him up with syringe feeds but not so frequent and at a lower amount.
He stopped eating pellets on Thursday night and through the weekend, but continued to eat herbs, grass etc
He ate just over half his pellets on Sunday night (13g)
He didn’t eat pellets yesterday or this morning, but is continuing to eat herbs etc.

He had a post-op check on Thursday evening (at which point he was eating pellets). My vet was really happy with his progress and his mouth looked very good. She said to keep him on 0.8 metacam twice a day for the time being.

I was worried about him on Saturday because he hadn’t eaten pellets since Thursday evening, although he seemed fine in himself, so I took him back for another check up. He was doing plenty of poos, they are good and fibrous because I’m putting plenty of syringe food in. The vet I saw was happy with his mouth, no signs of infection and it was healing well. She said he had gut sounds but she thought they were a little quiet so put him on Emeprid and Zantac as a precaution in case his guts were starting to slow down.

He is still pooing well, he looks bright and alert, he’s grooming himself. Initially he wasn’t eating his caecotrophs, but I’ve not been finding any lying around so I assume they are now being eaten. As far as I can tell, he’s not eaten hay since his op, I'm cutting hay up into pieces so that it is easy to pick up.

He is due for another post op check on Thursday, but should I take him sooner, or am I just being impatient? I just think it is odd that he started eating pellets for a day and then just stopped. He’s on SSS pellets, I’m breaking the bigger ones in two so that they are easier for him to pick up. There are certain times of the day/night when there is a gap in syringe feeds sufficient enough for him to be hungry and eat pellets if he wanted to.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to make sure I’d given as much history as possible.
 
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Tracy said:
I just wondered how long it has taken other people's rabbits to recover from incisor extraction and resume normal eating.

Scooby had his incisors removed a week ago and he is still not eating pellets and hay. He will eat herbs, freshly picked grass, dandelion leaves etc. He’s grooming himself, so I’m not sure that mouth pain is an issue.

He is on 0.8ml metacam twice a day (top end dose for his weight). Emeprid and Zantac twice a day. I am syringe feeding him the correct daily amount of Oxbow critical care for his weight. If he does eat, then I am adjusting the syringe feeds accordingly.

This is how he has progressed so far:

He had his incisors removed on Tuesday. It went very well and they came out cleanly. His molars were checked too, he had one slightly sharp edge burred.
He didn’t eat for himself on Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning
He began to eat herbs on Wednesday afternoon
He started eating pellets on Wednesday night and through Thursday, I continued to top him up with syringe feeds but not so frequent and at a lower amount.
He stopped eating pellets on Thursday night and through the weekend, but continued to eat herbs, grass etc
He ate just over half his pellets on Sunday night (13g)
He didn’t eat pellets yesterday or this morning, but is continuing to eat herbs etc.

He had a post-op check on Thursday evening (at which point he was eating pellets). My vet was really happy with his progress and his mouth looked very good. She said to keep him on 0.8 metacam twice a day for the time being.

I was worried about him on Saturday because he hadn’t eaten pellets since Thursday evening, although he seemed fine in himself, so I took him back for another check up. He was doing plenty of poos, they are good and fibrous because I’m putting plenty of syringe food in. The vet I saw was happy with his mouth, no signs of infection and it was healing well. She said he had gut sounds but she thought they were a little quiet so put him on Emeprid and Zantac as a precaution in case his guts were starting to slow down.

He is still pooing well, he looks bright and alert, he’s grooming himself. Initially he wasn’t eating his caecotrophs, but I’ve not been finding any lying around so I assume they are now being eaten. As far as I can tell, he’s not eaten hay since his op, I'm cutting hay up into pieces so that it is easy to pick up.

He is due for another post op check on Thursday, but should I take him sooner, or am I just being impatient? I just think it is odd that he started eating pellets for a day and then just stopped. He’s on SSS pellets, I’m breaking the bigger ones in two so that they are easier for him to pick up. There are certain times of the day/night when there is a gap in syringe feeds sufficient enough for him to be hungry and eat pellets if he wanted to.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to make sure I’d given as much history as possible.
Click to expand...


I find that my incisor less buns struggle to eat pellets bigger than Burgess Excel, but perhaps they are smaller buns than Scooby. It may be his mouth is still a bit tender to pull them in with his gums, and don't forget he has to learn a new technique of eating now!

You could also offer readigrass which is firm to grasp hold of with the mouth and extremely tasty. You could mix it in with chopped hay and let him have a choice.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much, as you have all the gut stimulants there if he needs them and he seems to be eating some food if not others. I don't go a bundle on pellets ..... they are always an extra for my buns.

How about seeing if he will take a pinch of porridge oats? Really easy to eat :thumb:
 
My Herbie has had this op twice, wee soul. Once at the rescue before I got him and then again when one of his teeth and a few peg teeth grew back in.

After the op to remove the one tooth and the pegs he was eating normally the next day, but maybe that op was not as much for him as it was only the top one tooth and top pegs.

He now has two peg teeth that grew back in, they get burred every few months, I am not putting him through the op again as they just seem to come back anyways!

Herbie manages fine with most foods. I just need to cut the veg up into strips / chunks. He eats hay by moving it along to the end with his wee lips then sooks in the end bit :)
 
I was going to suggest that maybe there is some infection going on, but if the Vet has checked a few times since the op then I guess that cant be the case. Sometimes if a dental has involved a lot of work/extractions it can cause some transmandibular joint disturbance and this can take some time to settle down TMJ pain is worse when eating hard food. He may have found that out and hence he stopped eating pellets. The jaw action required to eat hay ( a sort of figure of 8 movement) is likely to be very uncomfortable if the TMJ is still sore.

Will he eat grass ? Obviously fed in moderation as it is very rich at this time of year. What about softened pellets ? I wouldn't try to add any high carb foods at this stage as the last thing he needs is dysbiosis.
 
Thanks MightyMax. Yes, maybe it is just the roughness of the pellets on his gums which is putting him off. He's quite a small bunny (1.9kg) so I was breaking the pellets in two before his op and he managed them OK, but perhaps now he is toothless they are proving too big.

I'll call and get some readigrass on my way home from work. Would you give the oats dry or softened with water?
 
Tracy said:
Thanks MightyMax. Yes, maybe it is just the roughness of the pellets on his gums which is putting him off. He's quite a small bunny (1.9kg) so I was breaking the pellets in two before his op and he managed them OK, but perhaps now he is toothless they are proving too big.

I'll call and get some readigrass on my way home from work. Would you give the oats dry or softened with water?
Click to expand...

I always feed them dry, but some people report their buns like them soaked. You could also try soaking the pellets too, but my buns turn their noses up also .....

I find readigrass a God send for the toothless. Just so tasty and easy to grab with the gums x
 
Jack's-Jane said:
I was going to suggest that maybe there is some infection going on, but if the Vet has checked a few times since the op then I guess that cant be the case. Sometimes if a dental has involved a lot of work/extractions it can cause some transmandibular joint disturbance and this can take some time to settle down TMJ pain is worse when eating hard food. He may have found that out and hence he stopped eating pellets. The jaw action required to eat hay ( a sort of figure of 8 movement) is likely to be very uncomfortable if the TMJ is still sore.

Will he eat grass ? Obviously fed in moderation as it is very rich at this time of year. What about softened pellets ? I wouldn't try to add any high carb foods at this stage as the last thing he needs is dysbiosis.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jane. Yes he will eat grass, but I have only dared give him a small amount as he is not used to having it. He's also having small amounts of coriander, parsley, rocket and a bit of watercress.

I'll give softened pellets a try.
 
Tracy said:
Thanks Jane. Yes he will eat grass, but I have only dared give him a small amount as he is not used to having it. He's also having small amounts of coriander, parsley, rocket and a bit of watercress.

I'll give softened pellets a try.
Click to expand...

If you can find the roughest looking grass rather than the very new growth green grass that wont be so rich :)
 
Tracy said:
Thanks MightyMax. Yes, maybe it is just the roughness of the pellets on his gums which is putting him off. He's quite a small bunny (1.9kg) so I was breaking the pellets in two before his op and he managed them OK, but perhaps now he is toothless they are proving too big.

I'll call and get some readigrass on my way home from work. Would you give the oats dry or softened with water?
Click to expand...

You're very welcome Tracy :wave:

Hope little one is able to eat something and put your mind at rest.

One of mine is a Nethie and his weight is around the 1kg mark ... only a small mouth :D
 
Scooby still isn't eating anything except herbs, grass, dandelions etc. I have now been syringe feeding him for 11 days and I am getting through Critical Care at an alarming rate! His weight is constant, so I am getting the right amount of critical care into him, his poos are very good and he is bright, alert and happy.

He has been back to the vet again today. He has had another full examination and she cannot see or feel anything wrong. There is no sign of infection, the extraction sites look good and are healing very well. My vet wonders whether something has put him off the actual SSS pellets. He was mainly eating mix at the rescue, but I moved him over onto SSS (broken into smaller pieces due to his teeth issues) when he came to me. He was enjoying SSS before he had his teeth removed, he did resume eating SSS after the op, but then suddenly went off them. My vet has suggested trying him back on a mix just to see if we can get him back to eating again and then gradually wean him back over onto a pellet. Softened pellets didn't work, neither did oats.

I have today bought him a bag of Rabbit Royale, which I think is a decent mix and one I have used before when we had issues with Wally. He has just had his head in the bowl and has eaten a couple of bits, so fingers crossed that is a start.

He won't touch his readigrass at the moment, but maybe after we have got over the hurdle of the mix he might progress to trying it.

He really is a challenge! He won't eat if I'm watching him, I have to hide behind the door and spy on him. If he's eating his herbs and he spots you watching, he quickly turns his back on the food and pretends he was doing something else. :roll: I thought I was imagining it, but my OH was keeping his eye on him today while I was out and he commented that Scooby did the same thing to him. He is a very good patient though, he takes his syringe feeds very well and he thinks Metacam is a treat.
 
Tracy said:
Scooby still isn't eating anything except herbs, grass, dandelions etc. I have now been syringe feeding him for 11 days and I am getting through Critical Care at an alarming rate! His weight is constant, so I am getting the right amount of critical care into him, his poos are very good and he is bright, alert and happy.

He has been back to the vet again today. He has had another full examination and she cannot see or feel anything wrong. There is no sign of infection, the extraction sites look good and are healing very well. My vet wonders whether something has put him off the actual SSS pellets. He was mainly eating mix at the rescue, but I moved him over onto SSS (broken into smaller pieces due to his teeth issues) when he came to me. He was enjoying SSS before he had his teeth removed, he did resume eating SSS after the op, but then suddenly went off them. My vet has suggested trying him back on a mix just to see if we can get him back to eating again and then gradually wean him back over onto a pellet. Softened pellets didn't work, neither did oats.

I have today bought him a bag of Rabbit Royale, which I think is a decent mix and one I have used before when we had issues with Wally. He has just had his head in the bowl and has eaten a couple of bits, so fingers crossed that is a start.

He won't touch his readigrass at the moment, but maybe after we have got over the hurdle of the mix he might progress to trying it.

He really is a challenge! He won't eat if I'm watching him, I have to hide behind the door and spy on him. If he's eating his herbs and he spots you watching, he quickly turns his back on the food and pretends he was doing something else. :roll: I thought I was imagining it, but my OH was keeping his eye on him today while I was out and he commented that Scooby did the same thing to him. He is a very good patient though, he takes his syringe feeds very well and he thinks Metacam is a treat.
Click to expand...

What a little tinker, sounds as though he knows what he likes and nothing else will do !! It isn't the end of the world if a Rabbit is fed a mix rather than pellets. There are some situations whereby it is necessary to go against the 'rules'.

Hope he will decide to eat more for himself overnight. Could it be that missing the occasional syringe feed might mean he actually feels more hungry ? Obviously I am not suggesting not syringe feeding if he wont eat at all. But if he is nibbling at the RR he may go on to eat more of it if he's not being topped up with syringe feeds.

Good luck !!
 
Tracy said:
Scooby still isn't eating anything except herbs, grass, dandelions etc. I have now been syringe feeding him for 11 days and I am getting through Critical Care at an alarming rate! His weight is constant, so I am getting the right amount of critical care into him, his poos are very good and he is bright, alert and happy.

He has been back to the vet again today. He has had another full examination and she cannot see or feel anything wrong. There is no sign of infection, the extraction sites look good and are healing very well. My vet wonders whether something has put him off the actual SSS pellets. He was mainly eating mix at the rescue, but I moved him over onto SSS (broken into smaller pieces due to his teeth issues) when he came to me. He was enjoying SSS before he had his teeth removed, he did resume eating SSS after the op, but then suddenly went off them. My vet has suggested trying him back on a mix just to see if we can get him back to eating again and then gradually wean him back over onto a pellet. Softened pellets didn't work, neither did oats.

I have today bought him a bag of Rabbit Royale, which I think is a decent mix and one I have used before when we had issues with Wally. He has just had his head in the bowl and has eaten a couple of bits, so fingers crossed that is a start.

He won't touch his readigrass at the moment, but maybe after we have got over the hurdle of the mix he might progress to trying it.

He really is a challenge! He won't eat if I'm watching him, I have to hide behind the door and spy on him. If he's eating his herbs and he spots you watching, he quickly turns his back on the food and pretends he was doing something else. :roll: I thought I was imagining it, but my OH was keeping his eye on him today while I was out and he commented that Scooby did the same thing to him. He is a very good patient though, he takes his syringe feeds very well and he thinks Metacam is a treat.
Click to expand...

I think you may be right - a muesli mix may be the way to go at the moment. It's good he's eating his herbs - it shows he's able to chew and get his mouth round things. Have you tried carrots shredded with a potato peeler? I know I might be jumped on for suggesting the dreaded carrots for rabbits, but it's only temporary to get him interested in food again! Also finely shredded greens and perhaps grated parsnip ...

What you could try is mixing the shredded fresh food in with the Rabbit Royale - perhaps even herbs in there too - and see if he will be tempted to scoff the lot.

I have a juicer so my rabbits get spoilt. When they don't feel like eating I juice them a small saucer of kale and apple and I have never known them not drink to the very last drop ... I can even get meds into them that way.... and before anyone says 'ah but there's no fibre in there' ... they eat the pulp too! It's just easier on sore little mouths and more appealing somehow!
 
Thank you Jane and MightyMax :wave:

He hasn't touched his muesli overnight and hasn't eaten his little pile of herbs which I gave him before I went to bed. I wonder if you might be right Jane about him not being hungry. Maybe I am doing too good a job of the syringe feeding. There are a couple of bigger gaps in the feeding regime, when I'm at work and then overnight, and I thought these would be long enough for him to start to feel hungry, but could it be that I have fed him up so well during the rest of the time that he can get through these gaps without feeling hungry enough to bother to eat? The fact that he didn't bother to touch his herbs overnight makes me think that he just wasn't hungry as he does like them and can eat them. I think I am going to have to have a go at cutting back on the amount I am syringing so that he will actually feel hungry. I'm a bit nervous about doing this as at the moment he is stable and doing well, but I'll try it for 24 hours. I've got gut meds on standby and my vets are open over the Easter holiday if he slips back.

MightyMax - I've tried carrot cut into small cubes, which he did eat before the op, but he won't eat it since having the op. I will certainly give carrot peelings a try. Mixing his grass and herbs into his muesli is a good idea too, I'll try and trick the lad into eating.
 
Tracy said:
Thank you Jane and MightyMax :wave:

He hasn't touched his muesli overnight and hasn't eaten his little pile of herbs which I gave him before I went to bed. I wonder if you might be right Jane about him not being hungry. Maybe I am doing too good a job of the syringe feeding. There are a couple of bigger gaps in the feeding regime, when I'm at work and then overnight, and I thought these would be long enough for him to start to feel hungry, but could it be that I have fed him up so well during the rest of the time that he can get through these gaps without feeling hungry enough to bother to eat? The fact that he didn't bother to touch his herbs overnight makes me think that he just wasn't hungry as he does like them and can eat them. I think I am going to have to have a go at cutting back on the amount I am syringing so that he will actually feel hungry. I'm a bit nervous about doing this as at the moment he is stable and doing well, but I'll try it for 24 hours. I've got gut meds on standby and my vets are open over the Easter holiday if he slips back.

MightyMax - I've tried carrot cut into small cubes, which he did eat before the op, but he won't eat it since having the op. I will certainly give carrot peelings a try. Mixing his grass and herbs into his muesli is a good idea too, I'll try and trick the lad into eating.
Click to expand...

His mouth will still be sore from where they opened it so wide for the dental, so he maybe can't manage carrot cubes at the moment. If he could eat herbs but now is eating nothing, I would be surprised if it's just due to being full up of syringe food. Rabbits usually prefer to choose their own food and eat on their own where they can. However good to cut down and see if it works today.

Lots of vibes to the little one to get better and fast :thumb: xx
 
Hi there , I think it took my bun about a month before he was his old self after his incisor removal, infact it might have been a bit longer. Obi wouldn't have the criticle care....so I had to shread leaves and chop soft hay up into small pieces for him, luckily he did love the Readigrass. Hope you're gummy bunny is back to his old self soon, I certainly think it takes time. :wave:
 
Tracy said:
Thank you Jane and MightyMax :wave:

He hasn't touched his muesli overnight and hasn't eaten his little pile of herbs which I gave him before I went to bed. I wonder if you might be right Jane about him not being hungry. Maybe I am doing too good a job of the syringe feeding. There are a couple of bigger gaps in the feeding regime, when I'm at work and then overnight, and I thought these would be long enough for him to start to feel hungry, but could it be that I have fed him up so well during the rest of the time that he can get through these gaps without feeling hungry enough to bother to eat? The fact that he didn't bother to touch his herbs overnight makes me think that he just wasn't hungry as he does like them and can eat them. I think I am going to have to have a go at cutting back on the amount I am syringing so that he will actually feel hungry. I'm a bit nervous about doing this as at the moment he is stable and doing well, but I'll try it for 24 hours. I've got gut meds on standby and my vets are open over the Easter holiday if he slips back.

MightyMax - I've tried carrot cut into small cubes, which he did eat before the op, but he won't eat it since having the op. I will certainly give carrot peelings a try. Mixing his grass and herbs into his muesli is a good idea too, I'll try and trick the lad into eating.
Click to expand...

How's his output now ?
 
It is fine Jane. He is doing plenty and they are a good colour and size. I am collecting a daily sample of poos :oops: so that I can see whether there are any changes. I have a row of little piles of poo. :oops:

I fed him some critical care at breakfast this morning, plus his metacam. Soon after that he devoured a little pile of grass and dandelion leaves at speed. I've not syringe fed him since this morning and will try and hold out until later this afternoon. I put the muesli bowl under his nose, he sniffed it and took one piece and ate it and then went off to do something else.

He is spending loads of time grooming himself, cleaning his feet, washing his face and ears etc, I'm sure he wouldn't bother doing that if he was hurting.

He's active. His base is a large dog crate, but he also has the run of the conservatory so plenty of room to run around and exercise.
 
Tracy said:
It is fine Jane. He is doing plenty and they are a good colour and size. I am collecting a daily sample of poos :oops: so that I can see whether there are any changes. I have a row of little piles of poo. :oops:

I fed him some critical care at breakfast this morning, plus his metacam. Soon after that he devoured a little pile of grass and dandelion leaves at speed. I've not syringe fed him since this morning and will try and hold out until later this afternoon. I put the muesli bowl under his nose, he sniffed it and took one piece and ate it and then went off to do something else.

He is spending loads of time grooming himself, cleaning his feet, washing his face and ears etc, I'm sure he wouldn't bother doing that if he was hurting.

He's active. His base is a large dog crate, but he also has the run of the conservatory so plenty of room to run around and exercise.
Click to expand...

How about crushing up a small amount of the RR so the smell wafts about more. That might get his taste buds going.

You could make a necklace of the poo collection ! :D
 
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