Rabbit with hard lump under chin, had an operation 3 weeks ago

LaaLaaMonroe · Mar 21, 2015

Hi, I'm new here and after advice for my rabbit.

Sweep is 6 years old and roughly 3 weeks ago was taken to the vets because he had an eye injury what we thought might of been a scratch turned out to be an abscess behind his eye, they worked on his incisors and something else and drained the abscess the best they could and put him on daily medications eye drops viscotears and Fucithalmic Vet Eye Drops+ oral medications of metacam, baytril and duphapen daily for 7 days and then he had 5 every 3 days. The last was last Tuesday. Late last week I started to notice he was dribbling a lot, we did the last of his injections and he had to go back to the vets for an x-ray to see if the abscess has gone.

I noticed that where he was shaved in his operation under his chin, the hair hasn't grown back, yesterday I noticed suddenly he had a large lump in that spot and when I touched it, it was hard and he squirmed. We called the vets today as it was too late yesterday and the vet said it didn't sound dangerous as it's not leaking & he's still eating and drinking. To make an appointment and bring him in, they don't do operations on the weekend so better to be a weekday. Nearest I could get was first thing Tuesday morning.

A few hours after I noticed he can't bend well to grab his food, I have to hold it so it's easy for him to eat. Am I to be worried as I'm thinking it's growing, whatever it may be. I'm getting sick with worry as I'm feeling Tuesday is too far off. Can anyone give any advice as to what it may be, tumour, abscess?

He used to be an outdoor rabbit but since his operation he's been living indoors. Thank you!

MightyMax · Mar 21, 2015

LaaLaaMonroe said:
Hi, I'm new here and after advice for my rabbit.

Sweep is 6 years old and roughly 3 weeks ago was taken to the vets because he had an eye injury what we thought might of been a scratch turned out to be an abscess behind his eye, they worked on his incisors and something else and drained the abscess the best they could and put him on daily medications eye drops viscotears and Fucithalmic Vet Eye Drops+ oral medications of metacam, baytril and duphapen daily for 7 days and then he had 5 every 3 days. The last was last Tuesday. Late last week I started to notice he was dribbling a lot, we did the last of his injections and he had to go back to the vets for an x-ray to see if the abscess has gone.

I noticed that where he was shaved in his operation under his chin, the hair hasn't grown back, yesterday I noticed suddenly he had a large lump in that spot and when I touched it, it was hard and he squirmed. We called the vets today as it was too late yesterday and the vet said it didn't sound dangerous as it's not leaking & he's still eating and drinking. To make an appointment and bring him in, they don't do operations on the weekend so better to be a weekday. Nearest I could get was first thing Tuesday morning.

A few hours after I noticed he can't bend well to grab his food, I have to hold it so it's easy for him to eat. Am I to be worried as I'm thinking it's growing, whatever it may be. I'm getting sick with worry as I'm feeling Tuesday is too far off. Can anyone give any advice as to what it may be, tumour, abscess?

He used to be an outdoor rabbit but since his operation he's been living indoors. Thank you!

Welcome to the Forum :wave:

I'm so sorry to hear about all the troubles your rabbit is having. What work did they do on his incisors? Have they been removed?

What your rabbit seems to have is an abscess. They can flare up out of nowhere.

There are differing ways of treating abscesses in rabbits. Some people advocate having the total abscess excised, cleaned out and possibly antibiotic beads implanted. X-rays to determine the extent of the abscess, whether a tooth root is involved and if it has seeded into the bone.

Other methods are not so drastic and involve lancing and draining the abscess and then the owner keeps it cleaned out. Cleaning for the owner would involve using a cotton bud twice a day and something like Manuka Honey (medicinal grade) to put into the abscess socket. It's imperative to keep the abscess hole open as long as possible to allow the pus to empty out and healing to take place from inside.

In both cases there is usually good evidence to keep the rabbit on Duphapen injections, usually daily for a while (as you have experienced) but for a much longer overall course than you were given before. I have had rabbits on Duphapen injections for many months. I have also had rabbits who have had no recurrence of their abscesses following this treatment (lancing, draining and Duphapen), proving that this method can in some circumstances, effect a complete cure.

Good luck with your little one. If you can see the vet Monday rather than Tuesday that would be preferable. Helping him to feed himself in the meantime is good :thumb:

Jack's-Jane · Mar 21, 2015

LaaLaaMonroe said:
Hi, I'm new here and after advice for my rabbit.

Sweep is 6 years old and roughly 3 weeks ago was taken to the vets because he had an eye injury what we thought might of been a scratch turned out to be an abscess behind his eye, they worked on his incisors and something else and drained the abscess the best they could and put him on daily medications eye drops viscotears and Fucithalmic Vet Eye Drops+ oral medications of metacam, baytril and duphapen daily for 7 days and then he had 5 every 3 days. The last was last Tuesday. Late last week I started to notice he was dribbling a lot, we did the last of his injections and he had to go back to the vets for an x-ray to see if the abscess has gone.

I noticed that where he was shaved in his operation under his chin, the hair hasn't grown back, yesterday I noticed suddenly he had a large lump in that spot and when I touched it, it was hard and he squirmed. We called the vets today as it was too late yesterday and the vet said it didn't sound dangerous as it's not leaking & he's still eating and drinking. To make an appointment and bring him in, they don't do operations on the weekend so better to be a weekday. Nearest I could get was first thing Tuesday morning.

A few hours after I noticed he can't bend well to grab his food, I have to hold it so it's easy for him to eat. Am I to be worried as I'm thinking it's growing, whatever it may be. I'm getting sick with worry as I'm feeling Tuesday is too far off. Can anyone give any advice as to what it may be, tumour, abscess?

He used to be an outdoor rabbit but since his operation he's been living indoors. Thank you!

Hello

It looks as though Sweep now has another abscess, probably originating from an infected tooth root. As he has already been on a penicillin type antibiotic (Duphapen) it may be that the bacterial infection involved is actually a penicillin resistant one. Or the course of both the Duphapen and Baytril may have been stopped too soon allowing a rapid recurrence of infection. With Rabbit abscesses antibiotic treatment often needs to go on for weeks on end.

When they did the work on his abscess did they take skull radiographs ? This is really the only way to assess the exact extent of the infection. A retrobulbar abscess (abscess behind the eye) can also be associated with a tooth root infection. The overall picture your Rabbit appears to be exhibiting is that of quite advanced dental disease. But as previously mentioned more diagnostics (skull radiographs) would be needed to ascertain the exact problem. What is going on 'below the surface' provides a lot more information than what can be seen/felt on examination.

Treating Rabbit abscesses is always a challenge. The pus is purulent and the abscess wall very thick. This often means that simply draining the abscess and giving systemic antibiotics does not bring about a full 'cure'. Most Rabbit savvy Vets will try to excise the entire abscess capsule along with a margin of healthy tissue if at all possible. If the infection originates from a tooth root then extraction of the offending tooth may also be necessary. With a retrobulbar abscess sometimes enucleation (removal of the eye) is the most appropriate course of action. Again, systemic/topical antibiotics may not be sufficient.

I would suggest trying to get Sweep into the Vet on Monday morning. I do think it is likely that more surgery will be needed, including skull radiographs if they have not already been taken.Exactly what type of surgery might be needed would really depend on what Xrays reveal.

Is Sweep still receiving pain relief (Metacam) ?

I hope that the Vet can help him, good luck xx

LaaLaaMonroe · Mar 21, 2015

MightyMax said:
Welcome to the Forum :wave:

I'm so sorry to hear about all the troubles your rabbit is having. What work did they do on his incisors? Have they been removed?

What your rabbit seems to have is an abscess. They can flare up out of nowhere.

There are differing ways of treating abscesses in rabbits. Some people advocate having the total abscess excised, cleaned out and possibly antibiotic beads implanted. X-rays to determine the extent of the abscess, whether a tooth root is involved and if it has seeded into the bone.

Other methods are not so drastic and involve lancing and draining the abscess and then the owner keeps it cleaned out. Cleaning for the owner would involve using a cotton bud twice a day and something like Manuka Honey (medicinal grade) to put into the abscess socket. It's imperative to keep the abscess hole open as long as possible to allow the pus to empty out and healing to take place from inside.

In both cases there is usually good evidence to keep the rabbit on Duphapen injections, usually daily for a while (as you have experienced) but for a much longer overall course than you were given before. I have had rabbits on Duphapen injections for many months. I have also had rabbits who have had no recurrence of their abscesses following this treatment (lancing, draining and Duphapen), proving that this method can in some circumstances, effect a complete cure.

Good luck with your little one. If you can see the vet Monday rather than Tuesday that would be preferable. Helping him to feed himself in the meantime is good :thumb:

Thanks so much for your reply & wishes. I'm going to ring first thing Monday to see if we can get him in for an emergency appointment. I found his treatment paper the work he had done on his teeth were Dental Cheek Teeth Burr & Dental Incisors Burr. They said his teeth needed the work and that's what they thought caused the eye issue until they did an x-ray.

LaaLaaMonroe · Mar 21, 2015

Hi,

Thank you for your reply

and wishes. Deeply appreciated. I was looking for my vet papers from his operation.

He had a "Radiograph Additional Exposure" as it's written down on the paper. The Metacam he's not, the oral medication he received was roughly for the week after his operation so for nearly 2 weeks he's had no oral medication but until Tuesday only had the Duphapen. My mum kept asking me if I had any more, I think she thought it was too soon for him to not of had any more. Although for nearly 2 weeks he was still being seen by the vet but of course it wasn't a deep examination just visual.

I'm surprised a radiograph the first time wouldn't of picked this up

MightyMax · Mar 21, 2015

LaaLaaMonroe said:
Hi,

Thank you for your reply and wishes. Deeply appreciated. I was looking for my vet papers from his operation.

He had a "Radiograph Additional Exposure" as it's written down on the paper. The Metacam he's not, the oral medication he received was roughly for the week after his operation so for nearly 2 weeks he's had no oral medication but until Tuesday only had the Duphapen. My mum kept asking me if I had any more, I think she thought it was too soon for him to not of had any more. Although for nearly 2 weeks he was still being seen by the vet but of course it wasn't a deep examination just visual.

I'm surprised a radiograph the first time wouldn't of picked this up

My vet doesn't routinely do skull radiographs in cases of abscesses. She says too much can be missed that way, and you have to give a sedation to a bunny in addition. If the abscess hasn't penetrated the bone, it's perhaps mainly located in the soft tissue.

Abscesses aren't always painful for a rabbit, but it's a good idea to have some pain relief on hand (Metacam) just in case it's needed.

LaaLaaMonroe · Mar 21, 2015

MightyMax said:
My vet doesn't routinely do skull radiographs in cases of abscesses. She says too much can be missed that way, and you have to give a sedation to a bunny in addition. If the abscess hasn't penetrated the bone, it's perhaps mainly located in the soft tissue.

Abscesses aren't always painful for a rabbit, but it's a good idea to have some pain relief on hand (Metacam) just in case it's needed.

Oh I see, yeah he was put under when they did this and went ahead and did his dental work as the previous day they judged it was going to probably be his teeth. I will keep the Metacam suggestion for future reference, thank you. I do hope he's not in pain, he's obviously not his full self at the moment, which is understandable.

Jack's-Jane · Mar 22, 2015

LaaLaaMonroe said:
Oh I see, yeah he was put under when they did this and went ahead and did his dental work as the previous day they judged it was going to probably be his teeth. I will keep the Metacam suggestion for future reference, thank you. I do hope he's not in pain, he's obviously not his full self at the moment, which is understandable.

My Vet offers radiographs to clients presenting with a Rabbit with a suspected dental abscess. She feels that important information can be seen from Xrays which may not be evident from a visual examination. So the fact that your Vet did take radiographs is great

, did he/she comment on the exact findings from the films ? My Vet also feels that 'conscious Dentals' are simply never as efficient as carrying out a dental examination and any treatment necessary whilst the Rabbit is under GA.So again I am really glad to hear that your Vet has been thorough.If you are local to SW London I can highly recommend Twickenham Veterinary Surgery if you feel a second opinion may be needed as far as Sweep's treatment goes. You may feel absolutely confident with your current Vet though, which would be great. Having a Vet we trust is so important. I just thought I'd mention the fact that everyone is able to seek a second opinion about treatment options.

If between you and the Vet you opt not to proceed with any extensive surgery then a more conservative approach may be able to contain the infection for a while. This would probably include some further surgery to deal with the new abscess as well as possible-ie as much debridement as possible.The wound site has to to remain open for daily flushing out with F10 solution and possibly packing the wound cavity with Manuka Honey which must have a UMF (Unique Manuka Factor) of at least 15 to qualify as being 'medical grade' Manuka Honey. Or possibly packing the wound with Intasite gel and an antibiotic called Doxycycline. This makes a paste that can be used to fill the wound cavity. Another possibility is the use of antibiotic inpregnanted beads which can be sewn into the wound after surgery-they are called Antibiotic impregnated methylmethacrylate beads. Their use is not appropriate in all cases though.

It is always important to consider factoring in an anti-inflammatory analgesic when managing abscesses. If daily flushing of the wound is needed, sometimes it is needed 2-3 times a day, this can indeed be sore and personally I would not want to be doing it without the option of giving analgesic cover to the Rabbit. If bone infection does occur then this almost guarantees pain and two different types of analgesia are often required. Tramadol is very effective when dealing with bone pain.

I hope that you are able to obtain some more helpful treatment for Sweep and that he can remain as comfortable as possible xx

LaaLaaMonroe · Mar 22, 2015

Jack's-Jane said:
My Vet offers radiographs to clients presenting with a Rabbit with a suspected dental abscess. She feels that important information can be seen from Xrays which may not be evident from a visual examination. So the fact that your Vet did take radiographs is great, did he/she comment on the exact findings from the films ? My Vet also feels that 'conscious Dentals' are simply never as efficient as carrying out a dental examination and any treatment necessary whilst the Rabbit is under GA.So again I am really glad to hear that your Vet has been thorough.If you are local to SW London I can highly recommend Twickenham Veterinary Surgery if you feel a second opinion may be needed as far as Sweep's treatment goes. You may feel absolutely confident with your current Vet though, which would be great. Having a Vet we trust is so important. I just thought I'd mention the fact that everyone is able to seek a second opinion about treatment options.

If between you and the Vet you opt not to proceed with any extensive surgery then a more conservative approach may be able to contain the infection for a while. This would probably include some further surgery to deal with the new abscess as well as possible-ie as much debridement as possible.The wound site has to to remain open for daily flushing out with F10 solution and possibly packing the wound cavity with Manuka Honey which must have a UMF (Unique Manuka Factor) of at least 15 to qualify as being 'medical grade' Manuka Honey. Or possibly packing the wound with Intasite gel and an antibiotic called Doxycycline. This makes a paste that can be used to fill the wound cavity. Another possibility is the use of antibiotic inpregnanted beads which can be sewn into the wound after surgery-they are called Antibiotic impregnated methylmethacrylate beads. Their use is not appropriate in all cases though.

It is always important to consider factoring in an anti-inflammatory analgesic when managing abscesses. If daily flushing of the wound is needed, sometimes it is needed 2-3 times a day, this can indeed be sore and personally I would not want to be doing it without the option of giving analgesic cover to the Rabbit. If bone infection does occur then this almost guarantees pain and two different types of analgesia are often required. Tramadol is very effective when dealing with bone pain.

I hope that you are able to obtain some more helpful treatment for Sweep and that he can remain as comfortable as possible xx

They simply told me the thought it was that his teeth were growing into his flesh which caused the abscess so that's why they filed them and drained the abscess the best they could. I was told as it was behind the eye it was pretty difficult. We found the metacam bottle and there was at least 2 more doses left thankfully so I gave him 0.8ml this morning.

One thing I have noticed as the day has gone on, he isn't using his left front leg as much, well he's not moving much and we've got a make shift bed with old clothes and dressing gown he likes to sleep on, on the floor and he's not wanting to drink much water but he's eating although struggling. I was stroking him and noticed a marble sized lump in the front left leg

Unfortunately as I'm based in Luton, Twickenham would be pretty far for me but I appreciate the recommendation. I'm currently at Vets 4 Pets and I'm losing faith, maybe just because I'm seeing so much change in Sweep as the hours are going by. We're going to ring the vets tomorrow and see if we can get an emergency appointment if not I suppose I will have to find some back-ups from today. xo

Jack's-Jane · Mar 22, 2015

LaaLaaMonroe said:
They simply told me the thought it was that his teeth were growing into his flesh which caused the abscess so that's why they filed them and drained the abscess the best they could. I was told as it was behind the eye it was pretty difficult. We found the metacam bottle and there was at least 2 more doses left thankfully so I gave him 0.8ml this morning.

One thing I have noticed as the day has gone on, he isn't using his left front leg as much, well he's not moving much and we've got a make shift bed with old clothes and dressing gown he likes to sleep on, on the floor and he's not wanting to drink much water but he's eating although struggling. I was stroking him and noticed a marble sized lump in the front left leg

Unfortunately as I'm based in Luton, Twickenham would be pretty far for me but I appreciate the recommendation. I'm currently at Vets 4 Pets and I'm losing faith, maybe just because I'm seeing so much change in Sweep as the hours are going by. We're going to ring the vets tomorrow and see if we can get an emergency appointment if not I suppose I will have to find some back-ups from today. xo

Oh dear, poor boy

The lump may be another abscess. Unfortunately spontaneous abscess formation, along with other problems,can occur in cases of Pasteurellosis

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Bacterial/Pasteurellosis_lagomorphs.htm

But obviously I cant say for certain that the lump on Sweep's leg is another abscess. Given Sweep's apparent rapid deterioration as the hours go by I think you need to try to contact a Vet today. The reason I say this is that the infection can enter the blood stream and cause septicaemia (see link above). As Sweep has had no antibiotic cover for several days and appears to be exhibiting signs of widespread systemic infection I honestly do not think he can wait until tomorrow morning to be re-assessed by a Vet. IV antibiotics could be essential at this stage. I am so sorry to add to your anxiety by posting this, but I do feel it is important to try to convey how serious the situation may now be.

I hope that I am completely wrong and I am certainly hoping that Sweep can pull through xx

MightyMax · Mar 22, 2015

LaaLaaMonroe said:
They simply told me the thought it was that his teeth were growing into his flesh which caused the abscess so that's why they filed them and drained the abscess the best they could. I was told as it was behind the eye it was pretty difficult. We found the metacam bottle and there was at least 2 more doses left thankfully so I gave him 0.8ml this morning.

One thing I have noticed as the day has gone on, he isn't using his left front leg as much, well he's not moving much and we've got a make shift bed with old clothes and dressing gown he likes to sleep on, on the floor and he's not wanting to drink much water but he's eating although struggling. I was stroking him and noticed a marble sized lump in the front left leg

Unfortunately as I'm based in Luton, Twickenham would be pretty far for me but I appreciate the recommendation. I'm currently at Vets 4 Pets and I'm losing faith, maybe just because I'm seeing so much change in Sweep as the hours are going by. We're going to ring the vets tomorrow and see if we can get an emergency appointment if not I suppose I will have to find some back-ups from today. xo

I am sorry Sweep is still very poorly. I really think you should maybe get a second opinion asap on the problem.

You mention a vet in Twickenham, and the vet I use is the Twickenham Vet Surgery (Christobel Moseley) and their advice is no nonsense and down to earth. They have lanced and drained abscesses for me without the need for skull radiographs, as according to the vet there they are not always beneficial.

If you can find a vet who will assist you in the way you want to proceed, it's worth changing. I wish you and Sweep all the luck in the world!

I know of an excellent vet in St Albans, which I don't know may be closer to Luton?

Fee · Mar 22, 2015

Continuing get well vibes from me too... Poor wee mite, it looks so sore. Xxxxx

Rabbit with hard lump under chin, had an operation 3 weeks ago

LaaLaaMonroe

New Kit

MightyMax

Banned

Jack's-Jane

Wise Old Thumper

LaaLaaMonroe

New Kit

LaaLaaMonroe

New Kit

MightyMax

Banned

LaaLaaMonroe

New Kit

Jack's-Jane

Wise Old Thumper

LaaLaaMonroe

New Kit

Jack's-Jane

Wise Old Thumper

MightyMax

Banned

Fee

Wise Old Thumper

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