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Eating problems - possible causes when vet cant find anything even on X-ray

R

rawzer

New Kit
Hi all,
I know eating problems are a BIG bunny topic on here but we seem to have a strange but very stressful situation with our rabbit Stilton.
He is a dwarf lop about 4 years old and has been a good eater of hay, greens (coriander and kale in particular) and pellets. Been very healthy and happy until about a week ago.

He has just stopped eating almost completely and as a result is passing almost nothing in terms of droppings. Our last lop had chronic dental problems for years and Stilton is showing very very similar symptoms (which i know is a dwarf lop weakness). But he has been to the vet three times now in a week, last time yesterday. On all occasions they have checked his gut for blockages and his mouth / teeth and said all looks and feels fine - they were great with out last rabbit so I trust them. Yesterday the senior vet put him under sedation checked his mouth properly and his throat, he took jaw x-rays and bloods. We are waiting on the blood results but the mouth check and x-rays show no problems at all with teeth or roots.

BUT he wont eat, he is lively (supporting the vet in saying this isnt stasis) and he reacts to food as if he is going to eat as normal then often sniffs and turns away often scratching at the ground in what we see as frustration. From time to time he tries to eat a bit (eg a couple of stalks of coriander) but quickly gives up - while he is eating those small pieces the eating sounds are very very loud. After eating some bit or after turning his head away he starts to work and work his jaws. He is also periodically chewing at the sofa or at his straw house, seemingly more in annoyance than anything else.

We are getting fibre based emergency food into him as well as we can (like most he hates the process of force feeding) and today started him on 0.4 a day of metacam just to try and help whatever the pain might be.

We have to wait on the bloods I guess, but if they come back 'no problem' we have no idea what to do next. It all looks to us like physical eating problems and/or pain but if the vets cant see anything when he is fully sedated and nothing is on the X-rays what could we do to find the root cause?

any suggestsions or similar experiences we might take to the vet very much appreciated.
thanks all

Rawzer
 
I am sorry to hear your Rabbit is unwell

Has the Vet had a very thorough check of his ears ? Ear infections can present in all sorts of ways, not only in obvious ways such as ear scratching, head tilt etc. Sometimes the symptoms of ear pain can mimic symptoms of mouth pain.

Then there is the possibility of elongated tooth roots. This should be evident from Xrays, but interpretation of Xrays relies on the experience of the interpretor.

Has a trial of analgesia been attempted ? Obviously that would not help identify the exact problem, but if eating improves when your Rabbit has pain relief at least the Vet will know there is definitely a problem somewhere.

Did the Vet take abdominal Xrays too ? Any mention of what his findings were after abdominal palpation ? Any mention of your Rabbit's cecum feeling 'full' ?

Cecal impaction is a condition that comes on slowly and in the early stages the symptoms can also mimic those of Dental problems.

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Caecal_Impaction.htm

I hope that your Vet can solve the mystery and that your Rabbit will soon be feeling much better xx
 
rawzer said:
Hi all,
I know eating problems are a BIG bunny topic on here but we seem to have a strange but very stressful situation with our rabbit Stilton.
He is a dwarf lop about 4 years old and has been a good eater of hay, greens (coriander and kale in particular) and pellets. Been very healthy and happy until about a week ago.

He has just stopped eating almost completely and as a result is passing almost nothing in terms of droppings. Our last lop had chronic dental problems for years and Stilton is showing very very similar symptoms (which i know is a dwarf lop weakness). But he has been to the vet three times now in a week, last time yesterday. On all occasions they have checked his gut for blockages and his mouth / teeth and said all looks and feels fine - they were great with out last rabbit so I trust them. Yesterday the senior vet put him under sedation checked his mouth properly and his throat, he took jaw x-rays and bloods. We are waiting on the blood results but the mouth check and x-rays show no problems at all with teeth or roots.

BUT he wont eat, he is lively (supporting the vet in saying this isnt stasis) and he reacts to food as if he is going to eat as normal then often sniffs and turns away often scratching at the ground in what we see as frustration. From time to time he tries to eat a bit (eg a couple of stalks of coriander) but quickly gives up - while he is eating those small pieces the eating sounds are very very loud. After eating some bit or after turning his head away he starts to work and work his jaws. He is also periodically chewing at the sofa or at his straw house, seemingly more in annoyance than anything else.

We are getting fibre based emergency food into him as well as we can (like most he hates the process of force feeding) and today started him on 0.4 a day of metacam just to try and help whatever the pain might be.

We have to wait on the bloods I guess, but if they come back 'no problem' we have no idea what to do next. It all looks to us like physical eating problems and/or pain but if the vets cant see anything when he is fully sedated and nothing is on the X-rays what could we do to find the root cause?

any suggestsions or similar experiences we might take to the vet very much appreciated.
thanks all

Rawzer
Click to expand...


I'm sorry to hear your bunny has problems at the moment. How frustrating that you nor the vet can get to the bottom of them!

You have checked out the main cause, which is dental. I note that the vet has checked his teeth under sedation and also confirms there is no problem with the tooth roots.

Your best bet I feel is to hope the blood results will shed some light on things. I don't want to make things sound worse for you, but rabbits with kidney impairment can behave in this way. Blood tests will only show if the kidneys are really damaged and there's not much functionality left.

Have you or the vet thought of having him at the vet's surgery for fluids and perhaps pain relief to see whether anything like this can encourage him to eat?

Good luck xx
 
Thanks both for thoughts on Stiltons problems - we seem to have some really good progress to report back but not before a few more days of stress!

We passed some of your thoughts on to the vet and a few other things gleaned on the forums, but to be honest we still dont really understand the root cause of whats been going on. The blood tests came back clean, a few raised counts but nothing of concern and the vet re-iterated all the abdominal checks were indicating there was nothing at all wrong on the digestive front.

Below is a summary of last few days in case someone stumbles on this thread and it helps them:

As I said in my orignial post we decided on Thursday that alongside the emergency food we would restart some metacam as if he was in some pain (perhaps even as a result of having vets messing with his mouth so often) it just might help. That evening he nibbled a bit of cucumber and a couple of stalks of coriander if we hand fed him. He also started picking at Thyme of a plant we keep for him. But no pellets and no hay. He also started licking things a lot, the wall, furniture legs - way more than usual.

Friday he had eaten a little greens overnight and the vet advised to give him some Zantac with his emergency food as a gut stimulant and Friday night after his metacam he seemed to take a big step forward, eating all the spinach and thyme we would give him (which was not too much to avoid follow on tummy trouble). Still no hay or pellets though and more wall licking. No more jaw grinding.

Saturday morning had eaten greens overnight and a very small number of pellets we had some droppings finally plus some more messy material, so he had some Fibreplex to firm things up plus Zantac and then his metacam in the evening. We picked up a mineral / salt lick which we have never used before but a few suggestions were that wall licking might be hunting for minerals which he would be missing from not having his pellets - he went straight for that (we didnt leave it with him too long to avoid him over doing it). About 6pm - bang, he wanted anything we would give him and then headed for his pellets and started on some hay!!

Sunday morning had eaten his greens and most of his pellets, produced pretty normal amount of droppings and was very very lively and pleased with himself. So no emergency food, no Zantac and no Fibreplex planned but we will stick with the metacam for now.

So massive positive and we are feeling much much happier today. But we still have no idea of the root cause of the problem (mental, physical moth based or physical gut based or some other thing) and we dont know what will happen when we stop the metacam.

What we have noticed though, that parallels the same behaviour in our last rabbit with eating problems, is that getting them restarted eating wasnt a matter of their favourite foods being offered, it was food that we knew they quite liked (eg spinach and thyme) but that they had not had any access to while they were off their food. Almost as though they had lost 'confidence' in the food they had been presented with while ill, but the new stuff they were happy to try.

So thats the situation now, much happier and hugrier bunny but questions still to answer. For now though we are just enjoying feeling relieved the short term crisis has passed.

Thanks agains for your interest and suggestions and hope some of the above will give ideas to others in the same situation.


Rawzer
 
rawzer said:
Thanks both for thoughts on Stiltons problems - we seem to have some really good progress to report back but not before a few more days of stress!

We passed some of your thoughts on to the vet and a few other things gleaned on the forums, but to be honest we still dont really understand the root cause of whats been going on. The blood tests came back clean, a few raised counts but nothing of concern and the vet re-iterated all the abdominal checks were indicating there was nothing at all wrong on the digestive front.

Below is a summary of last few days in case someone stumbles on this thread and it helps them:

As I said in my orignial post we decided on Thursday that alongside the emergency food we would restart some metacam as if he was in some pain (perhaps even as a result of having vets messing with his mouth so often) it just might help. That evening he nibbled a bit of cucumber and a couple of stalks of coriander if we hand fed him. He also started picking at Thyme of a plant we keep for him. But no pellets and no hay. He also started licking things a lot, the wall, furniture legs - way more than usual.

Friday he had eaten a little greens overnight and the vet advised to give him some Zantac with his emergency food as a gut stimulant and Friday night after his metacam he seemed to take a big step forward, eating all the spinach and thyme we would give him (which was not too much to avoid follow on tummy trouble). Still no hay or pellets though and more wall licking. No more jaw grinding.

Saturday morning had eaten greens overnight and a very small number of pellets we had some droppings finally plus some more messy material, so he had some Fibreplex to firm things up plus Zantac and then his metacam in the evening. We picked up a mineral / salt lick which we have never used before but a few suggestions were that wall licking might be hunting for minerals which he would be missing from not having his pellets - he went straight for that (we didnt leave it with him too long to avoid him over doing it). About 6pm - bang, he wanted anything we would give him and then headed for his pellets and started on some hay!!

Sunday morning had eaten his greens and most of his pellets, produced pretty normal amount of droppings and was very very lively and pleased with himself. So no emergency food, no Zantac and no Fibreplex planned but we will stick with the metacam for now.

So massive positive and we are feeling much much happier today. But we still have no idea of the root cause of the problem (mental, physical moth based or physical gut based or some other thing) and we dont know what will happen when we stop the metacam.

What we have noticed though, that parallels the same behaviour in our last rabbit with eating problems, is that getting them restarted eating wasnt a matter of their favourite foods being offered, it was food that we knew they quite liked (eg spinach and thyme) but that they had not had any access to while they were off their food. Almost as though they had lost 'confidence' in the food they had been presented with while ill, but the new stuff they were happy to try.

So thats the situation now, much happier and hugrier bunny but questions still to answer. For now though we are just enjoying feeling relieved the short term crisis has passed.

Thanks agains for your interest and suggestions and hope some of the above will give ideas to others in the same situation.


Rawzer
Click to expand...

So pleased to hear that Stilton is doing better now. Given that his eating seemed to improve after giving Zantac I am wondering if a gastric ulcer may have been the issue ? Zantac (Ranitidine) is a drug in the catagory of H2-receptor antagonists and it inhibits the production of gastric acid. Hence it can be useful in treating gastric ulcers. I take it myself for mine !! One of it's useful side effects is that it can increase the motility in the lower digestive tract, so for Rabbits it has a dual purpose.

Personally I would ask the Vet what he/she thinks about the 'ulcer theory'. If he/she feels it may be a possibility then you are likely to be advised to keep the Zantac going, at least whilst Stilton is still on Metacam. Metacam, being a non steroidal anti inflammatory, can exacerbate gastric ulceration.

I really hope that Stilton will soon be 100% better, even if the mystery about what actually made him poorly in the first place is never solved.

Oh, just another thought. Did the Vet mention noticing any ulceration in Stilton's mouth. Even if his teeth were absolutely fine ?
 
His mouth, tongue and throat were all fine.
Tummy ulcer is interesting idea, will ask our vet.
We are only giving metacam in case it's pain related so it's a bit catch 22.
He was on Zantac and no metacam for a couple of days part through which didn't fix.
Is there a simple test eg of saliva for an acid tummy kind of issue?
Rawzer
 
rawzer said:
Thanks both for thoughts on Stiltons problems - we seem to have some really good progress to report back but not before a few more days of stress!

We passed some of your thoughts on to the vet and a few other things gleaned on the forums, but to be honest we still dont really understand the root cause of whats been going on. The blood tests came back clean, a few raised counts but nothing of concern and the vet re-iterated all the abdominal checks were indicating there was nothing at all wrong on the digestive front.

Below is a summary of last few days in case someone stumbles on this thread and it helps them:

As I said in my orignial post we decided on Thursday that alongside the emergency food we would restart some metacam as if he was in some pain (perhaps even as a result of having vets messing with his mouth so often) it just might help. That evening he nibbled a bit of cucumber and a couple of stalks of coriander if we hand fed him. He also started picking at Thyme of a plant we keep for him. But no pellets and no hay. He also started licking things a lot, the wall, furniture legs - way more than usual.

Friday he had eaten a little greens overnight and the vet advised to give him some Zantac with his emergency food as a gut stimulant and Friday night after his metacam he seemed to take a big step forward, eating all the spinach and thyme we would give him (which was not too much to avoid follow on tummy trouble). Still no hay or pellets though and more wall licking. No more jaw grinding.

Saturday morning had eaten greens overnight and a very small number of pellets we had some droppings finally plus some more messy material, so he had some Fibreplex to firm things up plus Zantac and then his metacam in the evening. We picked up a mineral / salt lick which we have never used before but a few suggestions were that wall licking might be hunting for minerals which he would be missing from not having his pellets - he went straight for that (we didnt leave it with him too long to avoid him over doing it). About 6pm - bang, he wanted anything we would give him and then headed for his pellets and started on some hay!!

Sunday morning had eaten his greens and most of his pellets, produced pretty normal amount of droppings and was very very lively and pleased with himself. So no emergency food, no Zantac and no Fibreplex planned but we will stick with the metacam for now.

So massive positive and we are feeling much much happier today. But we still have no idea of the root cause of the problem (mental, physical moth based or physical gut based or some other thing) and we dont know what will happen when we stop the metacam.

What we have noticed though, that parallels the same behaviour in our last rabbit with eating problems, is that getting them restarted eating wasnt a matter of their favourite foods being offered, it was food that we knew they quite liked (eg spinach and thyme) but that they had not had any access to while they were off their food. Almost as though they had lost 'confidence' in the food they had been presented with while ill, but the new stuff they were happy to try.

So thats the situation now, much happier and hugrier bunny but questions still to answer. For now though we are just enjoying feeling relieved the short term crisis has passed.

Thanks agains for your interest and suggestions and hope some of the above will give ideas to others in the same situation.


Rawzer
Click to expand...

Hi Rawzer

Thank you so much for posting such a comprehensive update and such a good one! :thumb:

It seems the Zantac which the vet prescribed could have been there cause of the success, given it's prokinetic effect. At least you know what to go for first in future, even if you don't find out the cause of the non-eating (which is often very difficult to establish).

Onwards and upwards :wave:
 
rawzer said:
His mouth, tongue and throat were all fine.
Tummy ulcer is interesting idea, will ask our vet.
We are only giving metacam in case it's pain related so it's a bit catch 22.
He was on Zantac and no metacam for a couple of days part through which didn't fix.
Is there a simple test eg of saliva for an acid tummy kind of issue?
Rawzer
Click to expand...

An endoscopy (fibre-optic camera inserted down the oesophagous and into the stomach) would be needed. However, I dont think that would be an option I'd go for in a situation such as yours. I think I'd go with a more conservative approach with continuing the Zantac (obviously only if the Vet agrees) as it does appear to have helped.Unfortunately sometimes we never get to find out exactly why a Rabbit became ill, even if a battery of diagnostics are carried out. The main thing is that the Rabbit recovers and it sounds as though your Rabbit is doing that at the moment.
 
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