Vaccinating and neutering at the same time

Helloo…I got my first bunny Winston on Friday. He was litter trained but that seems to have all gone to pot now and he currently has 3 litter trays in his cage and run but is still finding other places to poo and wee….i'm tearing my hair out a bit! He needs to be neutered and vaccinated. I think the fact he is entire is exacerbating his scent marking (along with the stress and excitement of being in a new home and having more space) so i'm thinking of getting him neutered sooner rather than later. He had a vet check last week and I asked about vaccinating and neutering at the same time and the vet said it was up to me and some people opt for having it all done at the same time but some people think vaccinations are less likely to be effective if the bunny is put under a general anaesthetic soon after, but he didn't think there was any scientific evidence to prove this….so I thought I would get your opinions?? I am leaning towards getting everything done at the same time because then it's just one vet trip and I feel it's less stress for Winston on the whole. But i'm worried that the vaccinations will make him feel under the weather and then with the neutering on top he is more likely to suffer from side effects or something? Any advice would be much appreciated!

I'm no expert but I wouldn't want to have them done at the same time as your rabbit's immune system will be low after an operation. I'm fairly sure my vet won't do both at the same time.

How old is Winston?

I think a health check and vaccinations initially are definately required, but it doesn't sound to me as if the vet you have seen is very experienced or knowledgable about rabbits. My vet is a specialist and for the main only sees rabbits. You would be taking a massive risk of him not surviving a general anaesethic by having him vaccinated at the same time. Rabbits need to be perfectly well before surgery, so as to lessen the risks involved. There have been occassions when one of mine has been booked in for neutering, but my vet felt there was something not quite right, and I had to take the bun home with whatever treatment was given, and the neuter rebooked.

It wouldn't only be one visit anyway, because you should be returning for a post op check 5 days later. I think you may be being overly ambitious expecting a new, and I'm assumming young bunny to be perfectly litter trained, when everything has just changed massively in his life, and you have only had him a couple of days. I think you need to be giving him a couple of weeks at least to settle in his new life with you. I may be wrong, but maybe having so many litter trays may just be confusing for him. Personally, I would just stick with the one, so he is quite clear on where he needs to go, when he is settled in enough to do so. Are you putting some of his droppings in the tray, with something nice to eat in there as well to tempt him in?

I think his behaviour at the moment is all about marking his territory, and making his new home his own and nothing to do with him not being neutered, as I have had in the past, neutered, litter trained buns do exactly the same thing for the first few days.

Why didn't the vet vaccinate at the time of the check last week? That sounds to me to be the perfect timing and I always think the sooner the better for vaccinations as I hate the thought of them being unvaccinated. I'm really surprised the vet didn't suggest giving the vaccination then.

I wouldn't have both done at the same time but because the immune response might not be good enough if the rabbit is under the stress of having the surgery at around the same time. Rather than actually putting the rabbit at any risk regarding the surgery I would see it as just potentially rendering the vaccine ineffective. I personally would leave at least a week between the two 'stressors' but ideally 2 weeks.

You should not vaccinate and neuter at the same time for two reasons:

In order to develop immunity from the vaccination the rabbit needs to be as well as possible: after an operation the immune system is low so the vaccine will not trigger the appropriate response

The vaccine will depress the rabbits health and make it more risky to have the operation or to recover well from it.

Also if he is a very young bun he will need vaccinating earlier than neutering.

How old is he? He may be just displaying his hormones with his 'lack' of litter training - it makes sense to him to mark his scent everywhere.



Please consider approaching a different vet.

Re litter training - it takes young buns a while to

RogerRabbit999 said:

How old is Winston?

I think a health check and vaccinations initially are definately required, but it doesn't sound to me as if the vet you have seen is very experienced or knowledgable about rabbits. My vet is a specialist and for the main only sees rabbits. You would be taking a massive risk of him not surviving a general anaesethic by having him vaccinated at the same time. Rabbits need to be perfectly well before surgery, so as to lessen the risks involved. There have been occassions when one of mine has been booked in for neutering, but my vet felt there was something not quite right, and I had to take the bun home with whatever treatment was given, and the neuter rebooked.

It wouldn't only be one visit anyway, because you should be returning for a post op check 5 days later. I think you may be being overly ambitious expecting a new, and I'm assumming young bunny to be perfectly litter trained, when everything has just changed massively in his life, and you have only had him a couple of days. I think you need to be giving him a couple of weeks at least to settle in his new life with you. I may be wrong, but maybe having so many litter trays may just be confusing for him. Personally, I would just stick with the one, so he is quite clear on where he needs to go, when he is settled in enough to do so. Are you putting some of his droppings in the tray, with something nice to eat in there as well to tempt him in?

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Bunny Buddy said:

Why didn't the vet vaccinate at the time of the check last week? That sounds to me to be the perfect timing and I always think the sooner the better for vaccinations as I hate the thought of them being unvaccinated. I'm really surprised the vet didn't suggest giving the vaccination then.

I wouldn't have both done at the same time but because the immune response might not be good enough if the rabbit is under the stress of having the surgery at around the same time. Rather than actually putting the rabbit at any risk regarding the surgery I would see it as just potentially rendering the vaccine ineffective. I personally would leave at least a week between the two 'stressors' but ideally 2 weeks.

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Thank you for your advice.

I'm using the Fairford Leys branch of Hampden Vet Hosptial. Someone on here recommended Elm Farm branch and Winston was already registered with Fairford Leys so I was thinking of keeping him there. Now I am thinking of transferring him to Elm Farm as I am quite unhappy he has recommended having them done at the same time given your responses.

RogerRabbit999 Winston is 8 months old and was litter trained before he arrived. I expected maybe some accidents but to be honest I wasn't expecting this! I am a new bunny owner so it's just a bit of a surprise that's all (even after all my research!!) He did have just one litter tray but all the other information said to provide pretty much as many litter trays as possible, so I provided him with two more where he had peed and pooed. Do you think I should take two away? Or provide one in his cage and one in his run? I am putting hay in his big litter tray with a piece of carrot attached to a string on the bars above so he has to get in the litter tray to reach it, and in his two corner litter trays he has a little bit of hay and then some carrot attached on the bars like the other two. And yes i'm putting his poos in there and the paper towels I use to soak up his wee. I am then disinfecting the area he weed with diluted vinegar.

Buddy Bunny the reason I didn't have him vaccinated at his appointment last week was because it was an appointment his old owner (my colleague at work) took him to (I went with her to help out and ask the vet questions). She was paying for the appointment and I didn't want to make things awkward by asking for him to be vaccinated. I know it sounds like a pathetic excuse but he wasn't technically my rabbit yet so I felt I couldn't insist on things like that.

On the floor of his run he has corrugated cardboard because I thought it would be softer than just the kitchen floor or putting a sheet down or something, and it's easy to replace when he wees (and just vinegar the floor underneath)…could that be making him want to wee on it? Because it's a slightly softer surface?

parsnipbun said:

You should not vaccinate and neuter at the same time for two reasons:

In order to develop immunity from the vaccination the rabbit needs to be as well as possible: after an operation the immune system is low so the vaccine will not trigger the appropriate response

The vaccine will depress the rabbits health and make it more risky to have the operation or to recover well from it.

Also if he is a very young bun he will need vaccinating earlier than neutering.

How old is he? He may be just displaying his hormones with his 'lack' of litter training - it makes sense to him to mark his scent everywhere.



Please consider approaching a different vet.

Re litter training - it takes young buns a while to

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Hi parsnipbun, you replied as I was replying to the thread! I really appreciate your advice! He is 8 months old so I was thinking it is because his hormones are going a bit mad as well as the new environment. His last owner didn't feel the need to vaccinate or neuter him. Should I get him vaccinated first then? I am going to contact a different vet which is part of the same practice, the one that was actually recommended to me! I am a bit confused about the conflicting advice regarding one litter tray vs 'as many as possible' (within reason!) Do you have any advice on this?

Ignore about the litter trays as for some reason I thought Winston was a baby bunny as in 8 weeks. Don't no why I thought that! I would leave the litter trays exactly as they are then. I would definately get him vaccinated, and then I personally would wait at least 2 weeks before getting him neutered.

I wonder if kitchen roll slides when he goes in the litter tray, and he doesn't like it. I use shavings in mind, because they seem to absorb any odour, and every evening I can see where the shavings are wet and just take the wet out daily. Maybe try leaving some stronger smelling herby stuff instead of the carrots. My buns will do anything for corriander and parsley, but not interested in carrots at all.

As Winston is your first bun, have you thought about insuring him? I think you're definately doing the right thing with seeing a better bunny vet. It's always such a concern to hear vets giving inappropriate advice, that could cause the worse outcome imaginable. I myself as I'm sure have many others, have been given bad advice by a vet when I first started keeping rabbits, and tragically my beautiful little Cassie died following a GA. In the beginning I just assummed a vet would know everything there was to know about rabbits, and he would see them as regularly as a dog or cat I thought. Well, that was an incredibly painful learning curve, and I still think about her and feel sad at letting her down. I know he was the vet but I still believe that ultimately Cassie was my responsibility, and I should have researched it all myself beforehand, and turned up a lot better informed than I was.

RogerRabbit999 said:

Ignore about the litter trays as for some reason I thought Winston was a baby bunny as in 8 weeks. Don't no why I thought that! I would leave the litter trays exactly as they are then. I would definately get him vaccinated, and then I personally would wait at least 2 weeks before getting him neutered.

I wonder if kitchen roll slides when he goes in the litter tray, and he doesn't like it. I use shavings in mind, because they seem to absorb any odour, and every evening I can see where the shavings are wet and just take the wet out daily. Maybe try leaving some stronger smelling herby stuff instead of the carrots. My buns will do anything for corriander and parsley, but not interested in carrots at all.

As Winston is your first bun, have you thought about insuring him? I think you're definately doing the right thing with seeing a better bunny vet. It's always such a concern to hear vets giving inappropriate advice, that could cause the worse outcome imaginable. I myself as I'm sure have many others, have been given bad advice by a vet when I first started keeping rabbits, and tragically my beautiful little Cassie died following a GA. In the beginning I just assummed a vet would know everything there was to know about rabbits, and he would see them as regularly as a dog or cat I thought. Well, that was an incredibly painful learning curve, and I still think about her and feel sad at letting her down. I know he was the vet but I still believe that ultimately Cassie was my responsibility, and I should have researched it all myself beforehand, and turned up a lot better informed than I was.

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The corregated cardboard is down as flooring in the run, in the litter trays I have a mixture of shavings and wood pellets. I have some fresh rosemary in the freezer I could defrost? Do you think he might like that?

I am planning on getting him insured once I've sorted out his vaccinations and he's been neutered. The insurance companies ask if he is neutered so I thought it would be simpler to wait until he is.

I am really sorry you lost your rabbit After reading various articles and posts I have realised there are good vets and poor vets and my vet recommending vaccination and neutering at the same time was the last straw really, there were a couple of other red flags during the appointment but not being am experienced rabbit owner I sort of didn't think about them too much. I will be phoning the recommended vet later in the week to discuss everything with them.

I would always wait atleast 2 weeks between vaccinations and any type of surgery (unless it was an emergency) as its too much strain on the immune system and not worth taking the extra risk.

That all sounds a good plan. If it were me and just erring on the side of caution, I would insure straight away because when I then took on Roger after loosing Cassie, I was thinking the same thing about insuring after neuter.

I had him health checked and vaccinated, but then 2 days before his neuture I found him collapsed and in a really bad way. It turned out he had a really severe ear infection (pasterella), and initially he was admitted because he lost all his balance and rolled every time he tried to move, and it was the most awful thing I have ever seen. In short though he cost me £1600 over a 5 week period, and I had to arrange a massive overdraft etc. He then went on to suffer a stroke and was paralysed down his right side, and of course none of it could then be covered by the insurance because it became a pre-existing condition.

When one of my buns then went on to have an accidental litter, following being in hospital and a friend not thinking and letting her uneutered buck meet Pippa, whose spay had just been cancelled because she was having a phantom pregnancy. Pippa had 4 kits, of which 3 were sadly born dead, but as soon as Plutarch was old enough to be insured (16 weeks), he was, even though he wasn't neutered because of not being old enough. It didn't make any difference to his premium, but as he was an unexpected bun I then decided to keep as it was just him, I knew I couldn't afford a similar thing happening like it did to Roger. It was just sickening that I ended up having to pay out over £6000 during his lifetime, when I could have only had to pay the £50 excess fee to my vet, who then claims direct from petplan.

I would certainly give the rosemary a go.

RogerRabbit999 said:

That all sounds a good plan. If it were me and just erring on the side of caution, I would insure straight away because when I then took on Roger after loosing Cassie, I was thinking the same thing about insuring after neuter.

I had him health checked and vaccinated, but then 2 days before his neuture I found him collapsed and in a really bad way. It turned out he had a really severe ear infection (pasterella), and initially he was admitted because he lost all his balance and rolled every time he tried to move, and it was the most awful thing I have ever seen. In short though he cost me £1600 over a 5 week period, and I had to arrange a massive overdraft etc. He then went on to suffer a stroke and was paralysed down his right side, and of course none of it could then be covered by the insurance because it became a pre-existing condition.

When one of my buns then went on to have an accidental litter, following being in hospital and a friend not thinking and letting her uneutered buck meet Pippa, whose spay had just been cancelled because she was having a phantom pregnancy. Pippa had 4 kits, of which 3 were sadly born dead, but as soon as Plutarch was old enough to be insured (16 weeks), he was, even though he wasn't neutered because of not being old enough. It didn't make any difference to his premium, but as he was an unexpected bun I then decided to keep as it was just him, I knew I couldn't afford a similar thing happening like it did to Roger. It was just sickening that I ended up having to pay out over £6000 during his lifetime, when I could have only had to pay the £50 excess fee to my vet, who then claims direct from petplan.

I would certainly give the rosemary a go.

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Wow! I'm so sorry about Roger! You have scared me enough into totally rethinking my insurance plan. This week is technically a trial week so I assume the onus would be on my colleague if Winston came down with something, but I have just checked the premiums and they don't change if he's not neutered so I will insure him from Monday and then just change the info to neutered when he is!

I'm so sorry. I honestly didn't mean to scare you, but I bitterly regretted doing what I did, or rather didn't do, and then when I read you planning to do exactly the same, and how terribly wrong it went for me, just didn't want the same thing happening to you. Even after having kept rabbits for nearly 20yrs, I still at times find it really scarey how one minute everything is brilliant in bunny wonderland, and then you turn your back for 5 mins, and turn back and they are in a life or death situation. That's what I did with Plutarch, just phoned and told them he was neutered. Definately think it's the right thing to do though, just in case.

RogerRabbit999 said:

I'm so sorry. I honestly didn't mean to scare you, but I bitterly regretted doing what I did, or rather didn't do, and then when I read you planning to do exactly the same, and how terribly wrong it went for me, just didn't want the same thing happening to you. Even after having kept rabbits for nearly 20yrs, I still at times find it really scarey how one minute everything is brilliant in bunny wonderland, and then you turn your back for 5 mins, and turn back and they are in a life or death situation. That's what I did with Plutarch, just phoned and told them he was neutered. Definately think it's the right thing to do though, just in case.

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It was good scaring because it has made me realise that anything could happen in the next month before he's neutered, I mean I really hope it doesn't but better to be safe than sorry! I really appreciate your open and honest input so thank you!

That's ok then. My rabbits are house rabbits and I honestly though they were safe and nothing would happen to them, but Roger had a choke incident, and Dipsy had such a mad binky, he crashed into the lounge wall, splitting his head open and had to be rushed to emergency out of hours vet, and needed a GA and skull x-rays.

RogerRabbit999 said:

That's ok then. My rabbits are house rabbits and I honestly though they were safe and nothing would happen to them, but Roger had a choke incident, and Dipsy had such a mad binky, he crashed into the lounge wall, splitting his head open and had to be rushed to emergency out of hours vet, and needed a GA and skull x-rays.

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I think you told me about Dipsy in another thread! I hope he is okay now. Choking scares me, whether it's babies, adults or rabbits! Winston's old owner is coming round tomorrow and I'm going to discuss insurance as I think I would like it to start asap. I know it doesn't fund routine operations like neutering but does it usually cover complications from routine procedures? I've been looking at petplan and p@h but am leaning towards p@h because it's half the price but covers almost as much!

Sometimes when a rabbit moves to a new home or different hutch he forgets all about litter training but hopefully in time he will get back on track. Rabbits also like to wee on soft surfaces, so watch if you let him go on your bed etc! Good luck with his litter training and the reason we don't advise neutering at the same time as vaccinating is due to the rabbit's immune system being fairly weak so he would be under too much stress.

No you're right, it doesn't cover routine ops such as neutering, but then that is just a one off you can budget for.

I have always insured with petplan and have found them brilliant, and they have never not paid out on any claim, and that has included dental work as well. The only requirement they stipulate re dental work is that the bun must have been examined by a vet in the previous 12 months.

Just out of interest I will have a look at the p@h policy and compare it to Petplans, and let you know if I do find anything important not covered.

The only thing I do instantly know that you might want to think about, and why I personally couldn't insure with p@h, is because my vet and most vets I believe, claim and deal directly with Petplan, which means that you only have to pay the £50 excess to your vet, and then when all treatment is finished, my vet then completes the form and sends it of to Petplan. With other insurance companies though including p@h, you would have to pay it all upfront yourself and each time you see the vet you would have to pay the bill at the end of the consultation, and then you would submit the claim and claim all your costs back.

Being totally honest with you, I personally can't afford to do that, and I have 5 rabbits, and very rarely, a couple have been poorly at the same time. I keep in a savings account for my buns, the £50 excess for each one so that I have always got that, but I just couldn't cope with the constant worry of am I possibly going to have to find 100's of £'s this month for vets bills. I have had a unexpected bill for £517 this month, but only had to pay the excess to my vet, but even coming up with the £500 would have been a massive worry for me.

RogerRabbit999 said:

No you're right, it doesn't cover routine ops such as neutering, but then that is just a one off you can budget for.

I have always insured with petplan and have found them brilliant, and they have never not paid out on any claim, and that has included dental work as well. The only requirement they stipulate re dental work is that the bun must have been examined by a vet in the previous 12 months.

Just out of interest I will have a look at the p@h policy and compare it to Petplans, and let you know if I do find anything important not covered.

The only thing I do instantly know that you might want to think about, and why I personally couldn't insure with p@h, is because my vet and most vets I believe, claim and deal directly with Petplan, which means that you only have to pay the £50 excess to your vet, and then when all treatment is finished, my vet then completes the form and sends it of to Petplan. With other insurance companies though including p@h, you would have to pay it all upfront yourself and each time you see the vet you would have to pay the bill at the end of the consultation, and then you would submit the claim and claim all your costs back.

Being totally honest with you, I personally can't afford to do that, and I have 5 rabbits, and very rarely, a couple have been poorly at the same time. I keep in a savings account for my buns, the £50 excess for each one so that I have always got that, but I just couldn't cope with the constant worry of am I possibly going to have to find 100's of £'s this month for vets bills. I have had a unexpected bill for £517 this month, but only had to pay the excess to my vet, but even coming up with the £500 would have been a massive worry for me.

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Just a few points on this, having 6 insured with Petplan and 10 with P@H, I can comment on some of the queries/points above.

The only real difference I'm aware of with the two policies is that PP cover to £2000 and P@H is to £1500. Excesses on most of my PP policies are now £100 and will soon be £100 plus 20% (as they are 7 years old) compared to P@H which are £75 + 10%. I've got to say P@H have been excellent at paying out and excellent to deal with. PP have messed up on two occasions and turned me grey recently when it took them 10 weeks to resolve an issue regarding taking the excess twice ... I really had to chase for my £100 back.

My vets don't do direct claims to the insurance company - you have to settle the bill and claim it back, this applies with all insurance companies, so if this aspect is important to you then ask you vet first to be sure. My local vet that I use for OOH do claim directly with both PP and P@H, so again worth checking with individual vets.