Kidney Failure?

Hi all,
Sorry I haven't posted in a long time
I have a 7 year old bun, Sid, and I noticed over the weekend that his tail was quite wet. I picked him up to have a look and inbetween his legs he was also wet and quite sore. He has also lost a lot of weight.
I took him to the vets tonight and they said he could have kidney failure.
They also tried to clip him as his fur and skin is quite bad, but he was too distressed by it all, so he's booked in again this Weds and will stay with the vets all day so they can clean him up.

He has gone from 2.4 kilos down to 1.5 kilos, since last September He is quite wobbly on his feet but is still nibbling at his food.

They have prescribed 0.7 mls of baytril per day, as his skin is quite bad.

I feel so bad for him and wished I'd noticed this much sooner.

They said I can get blood tests done (they took a urine sample today), but I am unsure whether to go down this route or not?

I just don't want him to suffer. Any advice you can offer will be great, thank you x

ralphus maximus! said:

Hi all,
Sorry I haven't posted in a long time
I have a 7 year old bun, Sid, and I noticed over the weekend that his tail was quite wet. I picked him up to have a look and inbetween his legs he was also wet and quite sore. He has also lost a lot of weight.
I took him to the vets tonight and they said he could have kidney failure.
They also tried to clip him as his fur and skin is quite bad, but he was too distressed by it all, so he's booked in again this Weds and will stay with the vets all day so they can clean him up.

He has gone from 2.4 kilos down to 1.5 kilos, since last September He is quite wobbly on his feet but is still nibbling at his food.

They have prescribed 0.7 mls of baytril per day, as his skin is quite bad.

I feel so bad for him and wished I'd noticed this much sooner.

They said I can get blood tests done (they took a urine sample today), but I am unsure whether to go down this route or not?

I just don't want him to suffer. Any advice you can offer will be great, thank you x

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If it were my bunny, I would want blood tests to know what was going on. I'd rather know for sure it was kidney failure rather than always wonder.

If it's kidney failure, there are several treatments, although the outlook is very guarded. He could have regular fluids (either at the vet, or sub Q at home if you're happy with that). There are also tablets to help support the kidneys.

These bunnies always keep quiet about their problems, so it's very hard to spot. You did the right thing taking him to the vet for a clean up and assessment :thumb:

ralphus maximus! said:

Hi all,
Sorry I haven't posted in a long time
I have a 7 year old bun, Sid, and I noticed over the weekend that his tail was quite wet. I picked him up to have a look and inbetween his legs he was also wet and quite sore. He has also lost a lot of weight.
I took him to the vets tonight and they said he could have kidney failure.
They also tried to clip him as his fur and skin is quite bad, but he was too distressed by it all, so he's booked in again this Weds and will stay with the vets all day so they can clean him up.

He has gone from 2.4 kilos down to 1.5 kilos, since last September He is quite wobbly on his feet but is still nibbling at his food.

They have prescribed 0.7 mls of baytril per day, as his skin is quite bad.

I feel so bad for him and wished I'd noticed this much sooner.

They said I can get blood tests done (they took a urine sample today), but I am unsure whether to go down this route or not?

I just don't want him to suffer. Any advice you can offer will be great, thank you x

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After having him for 7 years, I am sure it would help your decision to have the facts the test may divulge. If you do not have the tests done, you may never know for sure if this is an infection or organ failure.
Years ago I had a 12 year old dwarf rabbit named Chinnie with kidney problems. He did not have incontinence along with the kidney failure, but he was losing weight,presumably because the build up of toxins in his system had him feeling nauseated. He also had trouble keeping his body temperature regulated so he often seemed cool. He received supplemental fluids sub Q, several times per week at first and then daily, and he lived comfortably for a little more than a year.

Some animals are very tolerant of getting their butt rinsed/soaked, but understand why Sid's skin problem makes it hard for you to do alone.
I have given different bunnies baths (soaks/rinses really) many times over the years (decades). Sometimes for urine, other times for poo/excess cecal material.
Most recently I had to give CX a soak to remove the accumulation of snots from his front paws since he had chronic snuffles/pneumonia for the last seven years of his life his illness stopped responding to different antibiotics.
I would put a hand towel in the bottom of a container that was not much bigger than the bunny (I used a plastic shoe box for a dwarf bunny) so he would not slip, and then I put about an inch of lukewarm water (he did not like it as warm as bath water) in the container. I did this on the bathroom or kitchen floor and I held him and gave him head pets while he soaked. I lost him last month, but still smile while I think of how cute CX looked during his baths. He would actually start washing himself during his soaks to help me clean his paws. It was a little gross when he would start drinking the plain bath water, but it was no worse than seeing him eat his cecal material. Given his small size (he weighed 1.84 kg at his last vet visit), it was most important for me to keep him warm while he dried.

I understand how hard it is to decide how much to try and when to stop. Does he have any pain? If he has an infection that got into his kidney(s) he may need pain meds.

Me and the angel bunnies are saying prayers for Sid and wish you well.

Hello and thank you for your replies.
I am unsure if he's any pain as he is still eating, not as much, but this could be down to his kidneys failing.

He is booked in all day tomorrow for his clean up... tonight when I administered his antibiotics he seemed so fed up bless him And so skinny. I have been giving him porridge oats tonight and banana... is there anything else which will help him put on weight?

Here's my next dilemma, he's an outdoor bun. I also have 2 indoor buns, but because they have never outside I can't put them outside and swap them over.

I have 3 cats and no room for 2 more bunnies to come indoors. If only I could find someone to foster my indoor bunnies to make room for my outdoor bunnies.

I also forgot to mention, his urine was very clear - which could indicate kidney failure as they aren't filtering much so whatever he is drinking is going straight through him? The vet didn't mention anything about an infection either.

Why did they prescribe baytril if they think he has kidney failure? :? It could also be E.C. That doesn't always present itself as a head tilt and can often lead to incontinence and damage to the kidneys.

I would want further tests done to determine what it is.

Edit: Just realised the baytril was for his sore skin. Is the skin broken at all? If it is I would want some kind of pain relief for him as he must be very sore. However, some pain relief can affect the kidneys so this might be worth bringing up with the vet. x

We have just lost our rabbit with kidney failure. He didn't get wet underneath or have antibiotics. I would 100% want bloods done to confirm the kidney failure as his symptoms could be caused by so many different health problems, each needing different treatment.

Vegan_Bunny said:

Why did they prescribe baytril if they think he has kidney failure? :? It could also be E.C. That doesn't always present itself as a head tilt and can often lead to incontinence and damage to the kidneys.

I would want further tests done to determine what it is.

Edit: Just realised the baytril was for his sore skin. Is the skin broken at all? If it is I would want some kind of pain relief for him as he must be very sore. However, some pain relief can affect the kidneys so this might be worth bringing up with the vet. x

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Yes, his skin was quite sore.
I didn't see my usual vet, but he will be with her tomorrow.
The vet did mention EC, as he had a bout of it about 2 years ago, where he had head tilt and kept walking in circles - this was treated with panacur at the time, and until now he has been fine ever since.

If it is EC, is there a cure for the kidneys? Should I start giving him panacur again? x

Hugo's There said:

We have just lost our rabbit with kidney failure. He didn't get wet underneath or have antibiotics. I would 100% want bloods done to confirm the kidney failure as his symptoms could be caused by so many different health problems, each needing different treatment.

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Hi, thanks - what were the symtoms of your bun? Sorry to hear you lost him

I will ask for bloods tomorrow - will it hurt him though? I just don't want him to feel stressed, and they can't anaesthetise him either as he's too weak and there is risk of it affecting his kidneys x

ralphus maximus! said:

Hi, thanks - what were the symtoms of your bun? Sorry to hear you lost him

I will ask for bloods tomorrow - will it hurt him though? I just don't want him to feel stressed, and they can't anaesthetise him either as he's too weak and there is risk of it affecting his kidneys x

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It shouldn't hurt him and will be over quickly for him. Better to have a couple of minutes of stress and then give him the right treatment and be able to make the right decisions for him. Than not do it and then doing it all by guess work which could potentially miss something easily treatable or leave him in pain because you don;t know whats wrong.

Geoff just seemed generally unwell and just off when we tested him. As it progressed he lost weight and drank more. But even this morning before he went to the vet for the last time he was still eating well. But was so weak and frail we had to make that decision

Good luck x

Hugo's There said:

It shouldn't hurt him and will be over quickly for him. Better to have a couple of minutes of stress and then give him the right treatment and be able to make the right decisions for him. Than not do it and then doing it all by guess work which could potentially miss something easily treatable or leave him in pain because you don;t know whats wrong.

Geoff just seemed generally unwell and just off when we tested him. As it progressed he lost weight and drank more. But even this morning before he went to the vet for the last time he was still eating well. But was so weak and frail we had to make that decision

Good luck x

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Ohhh dear, poor Geoff. How long did he have it for?

I will get the blood tests done tomorrow x

I would definitely ask to have panacur. Usually you will get metacam with it too because it is an anti inflammatory but as I said before, chat to your vet about that.

E.C damages the kidneys; the fact that he has had a bout before makes me worry that this could be the cause for his problems.

How long a course did he have previously? I would personally want to see a rabbit specialist.
I used to volunteer for a rescue who never got a rabbit with E.C treated correctly. She had a course of panacur and metacam but only after a few weeks of the first symptoms and she didn't have a long enough course. The rescue had taken her to an awful vet who just prescribed baytril over and over again. The bun recovered from the head tilt but then started losing weight and suffering with incontinence and loose stools. I finally convinced the rescue to take the bun to a rabbit specialist and it turned out her kidneys had been completely decimated by the E.C and she had to be pts. I am not telling you this to scare or worry you but just to make sure you understand that seeing a rabbit savvy vet is so important.

Vegan_Bunny said:

I would definitely ask to have panacur. Usually you will get metacam with it too because it is an anti inflammatory but as I said before, chat to your vet about that.

E.C damages the kidneys; the fact that he has had a bout before makes me worry that this could be the cause for his problems.

How long a course did he have previously? I would personally want to see a rabbit specialist.
I used to volunteer for a rescue who never got a rabbit with E.C treated correctly. She had a course of panacur and metacam but only after a few weeks of the first symptoms and she didn't have a long enough course. The rescue had taken her to an awful vet who just prescribed baytril over and over again. The bun recovered from the head tilt but then started losing weight and suffering with incontinence and loose stools. I finally convinced the rescue to take the bun to a rabbit specialist and it turned out her kidneys had been completely decimated by the E.C and she had to be pts. I am not telling you this to scare or worry you but just to make sure you understand that seeing a rabbit savvy vet is so important.

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Thank you so much for your honesty here vegan_bunny. Sid had a course for 28 days, he seemed to recover after 14 days, but I continued the full 28 days with the treatment. Sid has always sneezed since I have had him too, mostly in the summer, could this be related to the EC?

I am starting to get very concerned now.

The vet which is on tomorrow, specialises in exotics, particularly rabbits and small furries so I will speak with her first thing x

ralphus maximus! said:

Ohhh dear, poor Geoff. How long did he have it for?

I will get the blood tests done tomorrow x

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Around 4 months from diagnosis. But he was an old boy probably 9 or 10 years. Try not to worry until you have a definite diagnosis.

You say they took a urine sample. What did that show? And was it sent to the lab or done in-house?

The urine sample will be checked inhouse, I emailed them today to see when they would have the result, but I haven't heard back yet. It was very light in colour though x

ralphus maximus! said:

The urine sample will be checked inhouse, I emailed them today to see when they would have the result, but I haven't heard back yet. It was very light in colour though x

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Normally its checked straight away. I was wondering if he just had an infection. Fighting infection can cause weight loss. If so it should be easy to put right.

She didn't test it whilst I was there.
He also has a dodgy eye, it weeping, clear liquid and the eye seems to be clouded over slightly, not with discharge, just the actual eye colour looks different - another sign of EC. Can EC be detected from the urine this late on? x

Ec can only be diagnosed by a separate blood test specifically for ec. If you have blood taken tomorrow ask them to do both tests x

ralphus maximus! said:

She didn't test it whilst I was there.
He also has a dodgy eye, it weeping, clear liquid and the eye seems to be clouded over slightly, not with discharge, just the actual eye colour looks different - another sign of EC. Can EC be detected from the urine this late on? x

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Tests for EC are not straightforward, and will usually entail a couple of (rather expensive) tests. My vet tends to treat with Panacur when symptoms present, a good long course, and leave it at that.

There's more info here:

http://www.houserabbit.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/ecuniculi.htm

What I would do, if you've already given a long (4 - 6 weeks) course of Panacur within the last six months, is have the standard blood profile. This will show whether there's kidney damage/failure. Kidney failure is treated the same way, regardless of cause, the the drug usually used is Fortekor. Fluids - either IV or sunQ - are also often administered regularly.

Please don't worry! Try and keep your bun's weight up and enjoy him as much as possible ... xx

Wait and see what the vet says. The eye problem could be completely separate. If his kidneys are bad then he won't be able to fight infections as easily.

Just a thought but has he had his teeth checked? I had a rabbit who had dental problems and the first sign that she needed a dental was dramatic weight loss and drinking tons. The vet thought that maybe she had something else going on (like kidney problems) but he never did a blood test to confirm (the vet was good but didn't seem to think she'd need a blood test as there wasn't much we could do about it). Every 6 weeks exactly she would drop her weight, start wetting herself and fill herself up with water. It was very unusual but she would be perfectly fine after a dental.

Unfortunately I lost her before we could investigate further into her potential kidney problems. Bear in mind that she was a rescue with dental problems and possible kidney failure/E.C related problems. It was before I had found a good vet and before I knew a lot about rabbits so I never questioned the vets competence.