Consultation with a rabbit specialist anyone? How did it go?

I'm posting this on behalf of a friend, who has a nearly 5yr old, neutered female called Issy.

So Issy a couple of months ago started to display some hind leg weakness, that has continued to worsen until at present, she is dragging both hind legs, not able to hop about, and falls over on occassions. She is now living indoors with her bonded partner because of the severity of her condition, and so that she can be more carefully observed. Issy is eating well, drinking, peeing and passing droppings as she should, and the only problem with her, is her hind legs.

She saw Louise's vet in Widness, Liverpool, on a number of occassions, but being very UNbunny savvy, refered her to a specialist*name removed* who saw Issy just before Christmas. Louise had to drop Issy of, who was then examined by the vet at some point in the day.

When she picked Issy up, she was advised that she had had x rays taken of her spine, from which the vet had diagnosed some spinal damage that she suspected was from an underlying health problem because of the gradual onset ( I think we all could have arrived at that assumption ourselves!!), and she was recommending Issy had 1ml of metacam twice a day, and was referring her for physio, and that was it and Louise paid £300 to find out nothing she didn't already no!

Louise has tried on numerous occassions to speak to the specialist, but has been unsuccessful, and the vet has not contacted her to discuss Issy either.

Am I being unreasonable in suggesting to Louise that I think this is pretty rude and ignorant of the vet, as she has afterall been paid £300 to see Issy. Is a phone call really to much to ask for?

Should she not have been looking into what underlying health condition is causing Issy's problems, as I personally cannot see any way forward in Issy's recovery, until they know what is wrong with her.

Is the physio really going to be worth the expense? Does what's wrong need to be determined first?

Issy saw her usual vet yesterday because of the worsening
of her condition over the werkend, and following my suggestion and discussion with Louise, spoke to her vet who has now put Issy on daily panacur, increased her metacam to see if that will help her move a little better, and is going to do her best to speak to the specialist before seeing Issy again next week.

Can anybody help at all please, as it is obviously upsetting for her now as well seeing Issy like this.

I think it's inappropriate to discuss and criticise a named vet on an open forum.

I would suggest your friend makes an appointment with the vet to go over everything, and she can ask all of those questions there. If I have questions regarding diagnostics or a procedure I always ensure I have a discharge appointment with the vet to go over everything. If the appointment with the vet was a referral, which it seems to be, then the vet themselves doesn't necessarily speak to the owner if the owner is staying with another vets practice. If your friend is staying with her current vets, which she clearly is since she's been back to them instead of back to the practice where the referral vet works, then it would be inappropriate to feed back information about the rabbit without it going through the vet who will actually be seeing the rabbit going forward. Your friend needs to decide which vet she wants to see, as it's not recommended to be having your animal seen at 2 separate surgeries at the same time.

yaretzi said:

I think it's inappropriate to discuss and criticise a named vet on an open forum.

I would suggest your friend makes an appointment with the vet to go over everything, and she can ask all of those questions there. If I have questions regarding diagnostics or a procedure I always ensure I have a discharge appointment with the vet to go over everything. If the appointment with the vet was a referral, which it seems to be, then the vet themselves doesn't necessarily speak to the owner if the owner is staying with another vets practice. If your friend is staying with her current vets, which she clearly is since she's been back to them instead of back to the practice where the referral vet works, then it would be inappropriate to feed back information about the rabbit without it going through the vet who will actually be seeing the rabbit going forward. Your friend needs to decide which vet she wants to see, as it's not recommended to be having your animal seen at 2 separate surgeries at the same time.

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Agree, especially the bolded font part

yaretzi said:

I think it's inappropriate to discuss and criticise a named vet on an open forum.

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Agreed and I've edited out the name of the vet. Please, no naming in future - the name of the vet isn't relevant when you're asking if the treatment and tests are appropriate/sufficient & it's unfair to publicly name when we only have one side of the story, especially when the info is third hand.

It doesn't sound to me as if they've done anything wrong to be honest. A large point of diagnostics is to confirm what we suspect - so even if there was an assumption about her condition, the diagnostic x-rays will have confirmed (or otherwise) that assumption. So I disagree that she paid £300 to find out something she already knew - she didn't know for certain that there was spinal damage, she had assumed that. The x-rays confirmed that. The x-rays could also have easily confirmed that there wasn't spinal damage and then the course of action would have been entirely different.

It's pretty normal for referral vets to correspond with the individual vet rather than the client, although obviously if the client has a consultation at the referral vet then you'd expect them to discuss it at the time and follow up in a report to the original vet. Yes there is potential for them to do further investigations into any underlying cause - it's possible that they didn't because (a) that's not what they were asked to do by the original vet, (b) any further tests would be more expensive so they did the initial diagnostics and/or (c) the underlying cause won't make any difference to the treatment anyway so arguably it could be a moot point. Whenever I've had a referral the vet has provided some oral feedback during the consultation but any ongoing conversations have been between the referral vet and my vet, not with me directly. I guess although from your friend's point of view it's just one phone call, they could spend all day on the phone to everyone who thought it was just one phone call.

Hope your friend's bunny can be got more comfortable.

I don't know who she was originally referred to but there are some good vets around Liverpool/Manchester area.

yaretzi said:

I think it's inappropriate to discuss and criticise a named vet on an open forum.

I would suggest your friend makes an appointment with the vet to go over everything, and she can ask all of those questions there. If I have questions regarding diagnostics or a procedure I always ensure I have a discharge appointment with the vet to go over everything. If the appointment with the vet was a referral, which it seems to be, then the vet themselves doesn't necessarily speak to the owner if the owner is staying with another vets practice. If your friend is staying with her current vets, which she clearly is since she's been back to them instead of back to the practice where the referral vet works, then it would be inappropriate to feed back information about the rabbit without it going through the vet who will actually be seeing the rabbit going forward. Your friend needs to decide which vet she wants to see, as it's not recommended to be having your animal seen at 2 separate surgeries at the same time.

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The appointment with referral vet was simply a referral but she is far to far away to be her usual vet. The whole point was to just point Louise's usual vet in the right direction. I've not had a bun with spinal damage before, and was just trying to determine if this was all that would be done. I can't really critisize on procedures I no nothing about, but I can't say as how I would have been that pleased with the service received. Fair comment on that she may not necessarily discuss with the owner, but she hasn't spoken to the referring vet either, and so surely there has got to be communication with someone?

Louise has been phoning on a daily basis and so I don't really see what else she can do if she is never available to speak to, and doesn't return her calls.

Jack's-Jane said:

Agree, especially the bolded font part

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Well to be fair Jane I've seen threads about other named vets, and no one had a problem with those. I was just trying to find out how she works and if this was the norm that's all, as at the end of the day a bun appears to be struggling and getting no one fast without any kind of an action plan.

I'd be surprised if you yourself would be happy being left in that situation.

Apologies Karen. I didn't think about it because I have read threads about other named vets and no one had a problem with them.

Anyway I'm quite shocked actually that people on the forum would consider this in any way helpful, and I find it hard to believe that others if they were in the same situation with theirbun's condition worsening would be so accepting of no further action or even a phone call.

Maybe the forum is just more concerned with mental health issues now, but it's sadly no longer the friendly helpful forum it used to be.

Thank you Bunny Babe for being the one pleasent helpful person on this thread. I will certainly pass on Alan's name to Louise.

Just so people know, the whole point of the referral was to a) find out what was causing Issy's problems and b) how best to treat or manage whatever was found to be the cause. I don't personally feel that either of these points have been addressed, and I wouldn't be happy about no recommendations now as to how to get Isdy well and hopefully mobile again.

I don't believe anyone with their buns best interests at heart could in anyway now be happy sat at home watching their bun falling over every time she tries to move, which is what Louise has just told me is going on with Issy tonight.

I've never had a referral as my rabbit vet is an exotics specialist, although I know he did consult with other specialists when one of my Bridge bunnies was so ill.

I would hope that if my vet had a referral request, he would then give the results to the referring vet as soon as possible as I guess protocol would dictate that was the correct procedure. I would also hope, however, that he would chat with the owner. I would expect it to be dealt with in the same way as if my GP referred me to a hospital consultant.

I hope your friend's rabbit is able to get suitable treatment.

I hope she can find some answers. I have only used vets in Wirral area so can't comment on others from a personal experience, only some that I know people use or that have been recommended on here.

I think Aiden in Manchester also gets recommended on here quite a lot if that is an option (just type aiden in the search)

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...lists-Vets-in-Manchester-area&highlight=aiden

The specialist has now spoken with my friend and everything has now been explained and it is perfectly clear what will now happen.

I guess it is just a shame that this conversation didn't take place a lot earlier, as it would have saved a lot of unnecessary worry!

Issy actually has a spinal deformity called Lordosis, and there is no treatment, and it would have been perfectly obvious from the x-rays, with no need to do any further investigation.

I think because my friend was initially told when collecting Issy, that an under-lying health issue was the cause, that to me suggested possible cardiovascular or any number of other organ conditions. I suppose a spinal deformity could be considered an underlying health problem, but to me personally, it should have just been referred to as a 'deformity'.

The lady who will be going through Issy's physio will be going to my friends house to do this, which I think is very good, and she may well cover some appropriate heat treatments as well, and together they will discuss Issy's pain meds as the metacam given twice a day at present (2 x 1ml), is not appearing to be very effective.

I am glad your friend has clarity now and hope that the physio/review of meds will help her bunny.

Let's hope it all starts working and helping the bunny. I know Mark has given Doughnut metacam 3 times a day for pain relief but not all vets agree with this dosage, to keep her painfree.