Allen and page vs excel pellets

I'm moving Nena and Tapla over to one of these soon, just because of the small choking risk with science selective. I know they'll like excel as they were on it when I got them, but I've never seen allen and page before and I have no idea what it smells like. Can anyone show me/tell me what it's like, and whether their bunnies liked it? N&T go nuts for their SS and I'd like them to be just as into their new ones!

Personally I don't like either of them - but then I don't think the choking risk is real either. When this first came up, I took a look at posts on choking and there are also plenty of posts about rabbits choking on both excel and allen and page, as well as a whole host of other weird and wonderful things including grass and hay! Of course there are a number of rabbits on here who have choked on SS, but my personal belief is that is largely because it's the market leader and hence more people feed it, so more people's bunnies choke on it compared to other things - and not because it's a higher risk.

That said, if you're intent on changing foods, I think it depends on your rabbits' constitutions. I have found excel to be too rich and gives many bunnies excess caecatrophs. I find Allen and Page at the other end of the spectrum and I have found that rabbits lose condition and weight on it. I don't find that bunnies find A&P very appetising, it's much more like the pellets you see in the bags of rabbit mixes. So I think which to go for would depend very much on whether your bunnies have a tendency for weight gain, caecatroph issues if fed rich food and whether they see a lot of other variety in their diet which might counterbalance the less nutritious A&P. It may take a little juggling to work out what works best for your buns.

The problem re: the choking risk for me is Nena is missing 4 or 5 molar teeth on one side, and she loves her pellets so I fear she'd rather get more in her mouth than chew it down correctly. It's specifically Nena's missing teeth that causes me the extra concern. Perhaps that's me being paranoid and I do know it's unlikely, but with her added teeth complication I just feel I should try to negate the risk a bit.

Tapla puts on weight quite easily and it's a big struggle to get Nena to put on weight, but this does seem to be levelling out more recently as Nena has gained condition back. Neither have caecotroph issues apart from Nena leaving the occasional one due to her antibiotics. I see what you're saying about A&P ones not being hugely appetising, and that's a big concern for me with Nena and her weight as well as Tapla and her frequent stasis episodes (which we're going to look into soon). I wouldn't want to introduce a pellet that they were not keen on, as it's a good way to put weight on Nena and a good thing to tempt Tapla with.

I think I do have enough variety in their diet to feed allen and page, but my main priority is I switch to something that they really like. I tend to feed the pellets every time I go out to them (while being careful to only feed their daily amount) and this is a good way to get them in from their run to their shed. If I switch to something they don't like, perhaps they won't wanna come in :lol:

I think my gut instinct is excel, and I can monitor their weights to ensure they're not piling it on.

Thank you for your reply! You've given me some stuff to think over and consider. I'll continue pondering

I have a bunny who has excess caecals on Burgess Excel, but I can't feed him Science Selective as he inhales the huge nuggets and I'm also worried about him choking. He has no front teeth and is very greedy.

I would love any other suggestions for nutritious pellets which are fairly small .... the size of Burgess is perfect.

I have used A+P FOR 10+ Years all my 10 current buns are on it and they're all good weights and never had a problem with them i don't weigh it out though the pairs get a cup full and the singles half a cup

sazzy said:

I have used A+P FOR 10+ Years all my 10 current buns are on it and they're all good weights and never had a problem with them i don't weigh it out though the pairs get a cup full and the singles half a cup

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If possible could you maybe get a quick pic of them, or see if you can find a pic online to see what they look like? I can't seem to find any pics And could you describe how they smell, compare to other pellets/treats/veg? I can't seem to find much info online and I can't seem to order any smaller packs for much less than the 20kg sack!

I always have a bag of PAH nuggets in as a treat really, and all of my buns like them. I didn't like the smell of Excel personally and A and P seemed too smalll. :?:lol:

Not sure on the smell as i have a bit of a cold so can't smell much but my lot love them my indoor bunny floss dances round your feet and the outside ones claw at the mesh for them

I could possibly send you some to try if you like

IMHO, more of a choking risk on the excel as they're smaller than SS.

Mine aren't hugely fussed on A+P but they adore SS....spoilt :lol:

I moved my to from excel to Harringtons as the excel was too rich for their stomachs. Now they have been on Harringtons for a year and i havent had a problem. They are keeping their weight nicely and still go nuts with them like they did with excel.

MightyMax said:

I have a bunny who has excess caecals on Burgess Excel, but I can't feed him Science Selective as he inhales the huge nuggets and I'm also worried about him choking. He has no front teeth and is very greedy.

I would love any other suggestions for nutritious pellets which are fairly small .... the size of Burgess is perfect.

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Oxbow are super tiny and good pellets. Mine like them lots

TheBinkyBunny said:

I moved my to from excel to Harringtons as the excel was too rich for their stomachs. Now they have been on Harringtons for a year and i havent had a problem. They are keeping their weight nicely and still go nuts with them like they did with excel.

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I've have been thinking of swapping to Harringtons from Burgess Excell for similar reasons.. as my buns have a varied forage / hay diet and I'm thinking the excel is overly rich for them, particularly my boy bun Forest. But I don't think my Forest bun should do the wheatmeal .

Interesting thread .. what to do? x

dumblepaws said:

Oxbow are super tiny and good pellets. Mine like them lots

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Oh thank you Dumblepaws :thumb:

My poor little nethie struggles to get anything into his mouth fast enough! x

All of our rabbits (95 of them) are fed on A&P, and we wean all new arrivals onto it too.
We prefer it over Burgess which produces excess ceacotrophs, or SS, the ingredients of which compare very closely to Wagg but are just groung into a pellet.
I feed all of my own rabbits on a&p too and rarely experience any gut issues

Bunny Magics said:

I've have been thinking of swapping to Harringtons from Burgess Excell for similar reasons.. as my buns have a varied forage / hay diet and I'm thinking the excel is overly rich for them, particularly my boy bun Forest. But I don't think my Forest bun should do the wheatmeal .

Interesting thread .. what to do? x

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my vet recomended me to try harringtons and i wouldnt change them over now. I can also get it in the shopping as they sell it in asda s not only is it beneficial to them its easy for me to get it aswell.

sazzy said:

Not sure on the smell as i have a bit of a cold so can't smell much but my lot love them my indoor bunny floss dances round your feet and the outside ones claw at the mesh for them

I could possibly send you some to try if you like

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That sounds quite positive that they go nuts for it! It would be fantastic if you could send some at some point There's no huge rush because I must have enough pellets to last me about another month at least, and of course I'd be happy to cover postage!

BB Mommy said:

All of our rabbits (95 of them) are fed on A&P, and we wean all new arrivals onto it too.
We prefer it over Burgess which produces excess ceacotrophs, or SS, the ingredients of which compare very closely to Wagg but are just groung into a pellet.
I feed all of my own rabbits on a&p too and rarely experience any gut issues

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Hmm, that's really interesting since you obviously have a wide range of illnesses at HH and yet it seems to suit them all. That can only be a good thing...

The bunnies in the pic are all 2 1/2 now and in the pic they were about 4 weeks old and there all really good weights i've never had a poorly bun on them even 1 of my rainbow bridge bunnies maisy had bad front teeth and she coped really well to just drop me a message when your ready and i will send some i've always got loads in as i buy 3 sacks at a time i'm sure there is a company who split the sacks and sell smaller bags but not sure who it is

I have been using Alan & page for about 4 years and my bunnies seem to like it. Their weights are good and maintained and their coat condition very good. I am currently feeding excel but only because my husband got that instead of going to the farm shop for a&p. Ruby does like the excel but scoffs so much of it I think she is getting a bit fat. My husband always sneaks off and gives her extra at night if he sees her bowl empty and she always empties the excel. I prefer the a&p as it gives more golden poos than excel that gives dark poos and a&p is lots cheaper than excel

I'm another one for A+P

All of my own and the rescues when i was running where on it.
Have never had a problem with getting rabbits to eat it or keep condition on, but then mine only get it every other day and have a bowl full of readi grass instead on the other days.
I love the smell of it as it has mint in it, so much so I tend to leave sacks in the car for a few days if I can get away with it

I had a lot of rabbits come in on Excel with digestive problems especially lionheads.
They have also just changed the size of the pellet on excel to a very small one.

Mine have Excel and none have excess caecals? They have only a small amount and are very good hay eaters. No gut issues for many years (touch wood).

Tried A & P years ago but buns lost weight on it.

Have had two choking incidents with SS - I remember when this first came out and thinking it looked like All Bran however the pellets are bigger and curlier now!