A few spaying and vaccination related questions

Hello,
Sorry to bother you all. I was just hoping to run this by some of you far more experienced rabbit owners
I've got two girls who are both about 4 months old who are at the moment unspayed. After panicking several times over uterine cancer in my beautiful Willow (who was never spayed as I didn't realize the importance of it until she was older. By then I didn't want to risk the surgery. Thankfully she never had it, and the scares turned out to be nothing.), I'm feeling that I would rather these two were spayed. I am worried about the risk of anesthesia though as I know small animals don't always react well.
* What are survival rates like? I realize that this is to a degree dependent on the vet performing surgery and what their rabbit knowledge is like, but just an average would help. I've just lost my beautiful Willow, and I'm not keen to repeat the pain so soon.
* Is the 80% cancer in unspayed does statistic real? I do remember reading once that it was an exaggerated figure put out to encourage spaying (therefore reducing breeding - something I can certainly understand). The reason I ask is that I am spaying purely as a preventative of uterine cancer. I will not be breeding either of my girls. I have no intention of contributing the the amount of rabbits sitting in shelters that need homes. There is no risk of them ever being bred as they will be with me for life. Even if something should happen to me, I have three separate members of my family willing to take them on. None of them would breed them. I am not worried about behavior either. I love them for who they are - even if they end up becoming moody teenagers
* Following on from that, will it alter their personality in any way? This isn't a deciding factor as I want their health to be the top priority. But I am worried as I already love their personalities - even Jazzie's occassional nipping (thought she's mostly stopped doing that with me now - if she does, it's very gentle). I love them for their bouncy, energetic, pain-in-the-backside-at-times-but-still-very-much-loved selves. I don't like the thought of altering that. It feels so unnatural.
* What is the safest age? I've heard conflicting answers of 4 months to 6 months. One member on here was kind enough to answer me and said it was more to do with size?
* Neither have (to my knowledge) been vaccinated for VHD/Myxomatosis yet. Should I get this done before or after the spay? Will they need time to recover from the vaccinations? Also, is it dangerous to have them vaccinated if I don't know 100% that they haven't been already (as they'll end up having it done twice within a short space of time)
* The vet I am thinking of using is the same one I took Willow to. I wanted them as they were extremely kind and seemed to genuinely care about the animals first, not just out for money (unlike the vet my parents took our dog to years ago...). They do seem to know what they're talking about and have a very good reputation. But I did notice on their website that they ask that all animals are starved from 8pm the previous evening so that they don't choke. Now I know this is important in dogs, cats ect, but my understanding was that rabbits should never fast, even before surgeries, as it upsets their delicate system. Plus rabbits can't vomit, so I don't see how it would apply to them? Am I wrong?
* If there are no complications, will I be able to bring them home the same day? Also, what is involved in aftercare and for how long? The reason I ask this is so that I know how long I should give it before getting the other one spayed. I need to know I can devote myself to looking after one for as long as she needs it. So if she needs a week of diligent care, I'd rather book the next one in for the following week so that I can then devote myself to the other one instead of splitting my time between the too (I hope that made some sense...). They live separately at the moment as they haven't bonded (despite getting on really well for the first two days :roll, so they won't bother each other while they recuperate.
* Will they need to go back to the vet for a check-up and/or to remove stitches? If so, how many times?
* Any thing that I haven't thought of that I should be prepared for?
Sorry to ask so many questions. But I want to make sure I'm prepared for anything and - more importantly - that I am doing my absolute best for my girls.

It is horrible sending them to be done, I am sure you will be pacing the floor waiting for the phone to ring on the day!

The risks are now really quite low, obviously with all anaesthetics come risk but it is now very unusual to lose a rabbit on the table. It is seem as a routine op now. Personally I would be no more worried dropping a bun off for a spay than I would be for a dog or a cat.

I have see literature that backs up the 80% thing! I can't remember where it was though I think It might have been from the rwaf. In my experience I have had one unspayed female... Who died of uterine cancer this was about ten years ago and my mum still feels guilty for not having her done.

Spaying shouldn't alter their personality. It may reduce certain hormonal behaviours but these don't disappear overnight so you may not even notice them reducing. The character beneath that though stays the same in my experience.

As for age I think it can be done from 4 months but I would wait til 5-6 months. Your vet can recommend a suitable time for your two when they see them to get their jabs

I would get them vaccinated now, literally I'd book the appointment tomorrow :lol: then I think it is best to wait a week or two at least before any op. I believe vacs can sometimes make the bun feel a little 'off' much like a flu jab for humans can make you achy for a day or so. I wouldn't worry about over vaccinating, most rescues will vaccinate and they have no idea if a rabbit has been previously vaccinated, it doesn't cause harm and a vet will be happy to vaccinate them for you.

Do not ever under any circumstances starve a bunny, the consequences can be fatal. Not only do they need to keep their guts moving at all times but it would be pointless anyway since they lack the gag reflex as you said. The website likely means for dogs and cats. If they do ask you to starve your rabbit I would not allow them to operate and I would change vets pronto!

Normally you can collect your bun the same day barring complications. A good vet will want to keep the bun in until they have woken up fully, been to the toilet (pee and poop) and have at least shown an interest in food. If you have a nice vets you could request that your girls are done earlier rather than later in the day. They normally have surgery sessions so if your bun is top of the list they will be waking up hours earlier and therefore are more likely to be able to go home the same day.

Aftercare depends on the bun. She will need pain relief for at least a week afterwards (if the vet doesn't offer you need to insist on that) but the main aftercare comes in the first day or so, some buns take longer than others to start eating and need monitoring (checking for eating and pooping) and may need syringe feeding, but the majority will be acting pretty much normally within a day or so. Another issue can be if she decides to pull her stitches out. Some surgeries offer glue instead of stitches which is apparently harder to pull out although they normally charge slightly more for it. I would book your girls in on certainly different days different weeks would be sensible although you shouldn't 'need' that long between them.

They will need to be kept warm for the first night as the anaesthetic limits their ability to maintain body temp so if they are outside buns bring them in for a few days (over winter this is an issue as it means they can't then go back out... Although if you bring them into an unheated room for a night it should still be ok to put them out next morning) they will also need restricted space for a few days, try to limit jumping opportunities ect.

Most vets like to see the bun for a post op check a day or so after the op and then if there are no problems then stitches get removed roughly 10 days after, unless dissolvable stitches or glue were used.

Just be sure to have a vast selection of yummy treats to tempt groggy and sore buns to eat, herbs are often popular and I have always had the best success with fresh forage like bramble and hawthorne leaves. Some fruit purée baby food (I like the Ella's kitchen pouches) works a treat to get meds into buns. If they are eating then putting meds onto or stirring them into something yummy can take the stress out of medication them. Especially good if you don't want them struggling and hurting themselves. I give mine a teaspoon of baby food every few weeks so that they are used to the taste and see it as a treat, I also always have a pouch in the cupboard in case of any unexpected illnesses needing meds!

Best of luck :wave:

Wow, Hele I think you answered every question in full! Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to all of that. It must have taken you ages!
My girls are indoor, so keeping them warm shouldn't be a problem Keeping them still might be a whole different challenge. I think Jazzie will cooperate, but Maple... Is it safe to chain her? She loves to rattle the cage (literally!) when it's time for me to get up, or when she's hungry (which is 99% of the time), binky and hop on top of her box (a favourite place to sit and sometimes fall asleep). She's doesn't really sit still for very long.
I feel much better about them having the op now. Of course I know the risks are always there. I suppose I'm just afraid to lose them, especially after Willow. Plus I think I'd blame myself because I made the decision to let them have the op.
I will book them at least a week apart. Maybe a little more. I want to know that if something does go wrong I can concentrate on one and not have to worry about going between the two too much.
The baby food idea is great! I've had a look at these Ella's Kitchen ones. Seem to be able to get them from Asda ect, so I will pick a couple up next time I go shopping and try them with a little bit to see if they like them (and which flavour's the favourite - don't think it will be carrot somehow. None of my girls have ever been huge carrot-fans). Are all the obvious choices (apple, carrot, banana ect) safe for rabbits? Can't see anything else in their ingredients list, but there must be something preserving them.
I think I'll wait another month or two on the op anyway. I'd rather not take any risks. Though I will ask what the vet thinks when I take them in for their vaccinations (oh, that will be fun! I tried doing Maple's nails for the first time a few days ago... I didn't even get far enough to touch the back ones, and the front ones are still a little long :roll: They are not going to like needles...)
Glad to hear I was right about the fasting thing. I was a little surprised they said that as they did mention about bringing in food for rabbits in the next paragraph, so they must have thought of rabbits. If they ask me to do that, I'll find another vet as I want to know that they know what they're doing. Might point it out to them though as it isn't that clear to those who haven't got much experience with rabbits. If I was a first-time rabbit owner, I would have followed what they said on the website and not fed them.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll see if I can for an earlier appointment if at all possible.
I think they will probably be okay eating (Maple is always hungry, even when she's just been fed!), but on the off chance I'd rather be prepared. If I have to syringe feed, what would be a good thing to give them? I have seen things like Oxbow Critical Care. Does seem really expensive for what you get :? but if it helps them, I'll get some. Any other suggestions?
Pity the 'Ella's Kitchen' range doesn't do a 'grass' or 'spring greens' flavour :lol:
I'd already thought of the herbs. Since parsley is a definite favourite I will be sure there's plenty of that. They love their spring greens too.
If there's an option with the stitches (dissolvable, non-dissolvable, glue ect), which one would be best? I'm guessing either the dissolvable or the glue as getting stitches removed doesn't sound like fun *ouch*.
Thank you again so much, Hele. That was really helpful and very kind of you to take the time to type out

Hi .... I am going through exactly the same with my 2 girls this at the present moment. They are around the same age as your 2 (5-6 months ). I have been off work on holiday so I decided to get them both spayed when I am around. The first girl Lady Lapin went in on Wednesday and is now eating more or less normally. When she went back in with her bonded friend Corrie she did a binky ( imagine a human doing that 1 day post op !). On Friday I took Corrie down to be spayed next. She has been more worrying as she hasn't eaten for herself yet and was sleeping quite a lot. I have been syringe feeding her the powder the vet gave me although not all mush is going in. What a worry ! Corrie is more of a laid back lazy bunny like a couch potato who bumbles around at the best of times while Lady Lapin binkys and leaps on boxes like an Olympic athlete..... So maybe it is a bit of the personality showing through. They both have metacam from the vet to take for 5 days too. My only piece of real advice is don't get both bunnies done as close together as I have. I wish I had given myself at least a whole week or two. Although Corrie is not out of the woods yet I am glad I have had them done as the whole 80% cancer risk scares me too and by spaying them I suppose I have doubled their life expectancy . Oh and it's maybe worth mentioning that the vet gave them their vaccinations that day too. Good luck with your girls

Glad to report that 3/4 hour after metacam and syringe feed Corrie started eating on her own ! Phew - back in with her friend .....so glad That everything looks ok