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E.C Need advice

Liquorice

Liquorice

Mama Doe
As most of you will have seen on my other thread my rabbit has been diagnosed with E.C. At the moment things have got worse and she has her head touching the ground. She is still eating and drinking but no where near as much as usual. Is there any advice anyone could give me? She's been given antibiotics, she's on wormer and I have syringe fed her a couple of times. If things don't pick up overnight it is likely that she will have to be pts :cry:
I hate seeing her in pain :(
Thanks beforehand x
 
Hi

I am afraid that I havnt seen your other thread - but I have had several rabbits make complete recoveries after very severe EC with accompanying head tilt.

They often get worse before getting better - and I would say that 4 weeks is the minimum of time in which it takes to start to be able see if they may eventually gradually get better - (with actually getting better taking several months)
 
Is bunny on metacam anti-infammatory as well - that is essential for helping with EC - and also anti dizziness drug can help.

Presume vet has given both these?
 
When I first adopted my rabbit Alice she had head tilt with her head touching the ground. She was given to me like this at about 9 weeks old. The vet that I use took x-ray and said she had an inner ear infection. Alice was on baytril for a month while the vet was looking to see if a lab here could test for E.C. While waiting I was feeding her three times a day on critical care and mashed up pellet and giving her water(she alway had food and water in the cage with her). When the test came back she was put on panacur for a month. I did not see much improvement with the grade of the tilt (it was not on the floor anymore but it was still sideways) until she was
almost done the meds. It took about a month after the meds for the tilt to almost go away. She still has a slight tilt. I found that gentley massaging her neck help she now wants it massaged al the time. Alice is just getting over another round of E.C. That was nowhere near that bad this time. The vet think the stress of her check up cause into return. Alice is now 7 month and is almost like a normal bunny, she will alway have some of the wierd behaviours cause by the E.C.

sorry this post is so long. I tried to tell her story quickly. I went through this on my own with her as E.C is not seen to offer in Canada.
 
You have some excellent advice here. There are other threads with more detail about coping with EC.

An anti-inflammatory(eg Metacam) is essential to reduce the damage to the nervous system caused by the parasite. Panacur (wormer) is standard for 28 days. Antibiotics (eg Baytril) are given in case of an inner ear infection which affects balance and can have similar symptoms to EC.

Treatment may well go on for several weeks or months, but there should be some improvement in a week ortwo. Overnight is no time to give the treatments time to work for EC and I wouldn't be considering PTS at this stage for 'just' EC.

Rabbits can cope with the symptoms if they are given the right support, treatment and time. It looks awful when they are doubled round and rolling as they can't walk when it gets bad, but it does improve and they cope with the recovery. Make it easier for her to eat eg. pellets in a saucer rather than a bowl, bits of greens etc where she can easily get to them, grated carrot or apple instead of chunks. Softened pellets can help if she isn't drinking enough. Maybe she can't reach the water. A lower bottle or shallower dish or 2 may work better. Fresh greens / grass can be sprayed with water to increase intake. Syringe feeds may be needed if she needs top up feeds to maintain weight.

You may need to help keep her clean if she can't do it herself for a while.

She may get worse before she gets better. She may have some degree of permanent head tilt. The fact that you have started treatment and she is still able to eat etc by herself are good signs and give her the best chance to make a good recovery.
 
Shimmer said:
You have some excellent advice here. There are other threads with more detail about coping with EC.

An anti-inflammatory(eg Metacam) is essential to reduce the damage to the nervous system caused by the parasite. Panacur (wormer) is standard for 28 days. Antibiotics (eg Baytril) are given in case of an inner ear infection which affects balance and can have similar symptoms to EC.

Treatment may well go on for several weeks or months, but there should be some improvement in a week ortwo. Overnight is no time to give the treatments time to work for EC and I wouldn't be considering PTS at this stage for 'just' EC.

Rabbits can cope with the symptoms if they are given the right support, treatment and time. It looks awful when they are doubled round and rolling as they can't walk when it gets bad, but it does improve and they cope with the recovery. Make it easier for her to eat eg. pellets in a saucer rather than a bowl, bits of greens etc where she can easily get to them, grated carrot or apple instead of chunks. Softened pellets can help if she isn't drinking enough. Maybe she can't reach the water. A lower bottle or shallower dish or 2 may work better. Fresh greens / grass can be sprayed with water to increase intake. Syringe feeds may be needed if she needs top up feeds to maintain weight.

You may need to help keep her clean if she can't do it herself for a while.

She may get worse before she gets better. She may have some degree of permanent head tilt. The fact that you have started treatment and she is still able to eat etc by herself are good signs and give her the best chance to make a good recovery.
Click to expand...

Thanks for everyone's advice. We are going for another checkup this morning and she hasn't been prescribed metacam! So I'll be asking for that today. We've been giving her water in a bowl because she prefers it like that. I have been doing syringe feeds but it does really stress her out so I try not to do it often. At the moment she isn't eating dried food and she's only eating her greens, but hopefully things will pick up. The rabbit forum seems to have more advice than the vets :wave:
Yes we have been soaking the greens she will eat so hopefully she's getting enough water. The vet said there was still gut sounds and she's still quite attentive thanks for the advice everyone ill tell you all how the vets goes
 
Liquorice said:
Thanks for everyone's advice. We are going for another checkup this morning and she hasn't been prescribed metacam! So I'll be asking for that today. We've been giving her water in a bowl because she prefers it like that. I have been doing syringe feeds but it does really stress her out so I try not to do it often. At the moment she isn't eating dried food and she's only eating her greens, but hopefully things will pick up. The rabbit forum seems to have more advice than the vets :wave:
Yes we have been soaking the greens she will eat so hopefully she's getting enough water. The vet said there was still gut sounds and she's still quite attentive thanks for the advice everyone ill tell you all how the vets goes
Click to expand...

I seem to think you said in the past you were in Harrogate? If you are still there or in the area I would strongly recommend you move to Crab Lane Vets, the country's top rabbit vet who has expertise on EC is based there and getting care from a rabbit savvy vet is essential

(Sorry if I've mixed you up with somebody else and you are elsewhere in the country!)
 
Bunny Buddy said:
I seem to think you said in the past you were in Harrogate? If you are still there or in the area I would strongly recommend you move to Crab Lane Vets, the country's top rabbit vet who has expertise on EC is based there and getting care from a rabbit savvy vet is essential

(Sorry if I've mixed you up with somebody else and you are elsewhere in the country!)
Click to expand...

Yes I am I'll have to talk to my mum about that, thank you
 
Liquorice said:
Yes I am I'll have to talk to my mum about that, thank you
Click to expand...

http://www.crablanevets.co.uk/

:D The vet in question is Frances Harcourt-Brown, she is the ONLY vet in the UK who is officially a "Recognised specialist in Rabbit Medicine and Surgery". As she has just retired you would probably need to consult with one of her colleagues (ideally Ruth but also Heather) but they would still be able to get any really specialist advice of Frances as she still works there for a few hours a week on complex cases.

If your vet at the moment isn't prescribing Metacam they are probably not very experienced with treating EC, the vets at Crab Lane are experienced and knowledgeable. ... they are actually cheaper than my local vets too so it won't cost an arm and a leg for specialist advice - they are just good in every respect.

Good luck with her treatment, whatever you decide.
 
I would add, though, that in some cases, metacam may well be contraindicated - so for instance if the ec has impacted the kidneys, the risks of giving it might outweigh the benefits. Although if there is some kidney pain, then painkiller of some kind would probably be helpful. The vet should be able to feel the kidneys and while they clearly can't see what is going on, they might be able to feel if they are tender, smaller, different texture to normal etc, all of which may suggest damage. An ultrasound can also help with that although clearly that would push up the cost and might not be conclusive.

I think the combination of drugs for ec infections is incredibly finely balanced depending on exactly what symptoms are presenting and whether there is a possibility of misdiagnosis (e.g. ear infection rather than ec).

Hope your little one is ok xx
 
Vets

Well we have just returned. Turns out she has already been given anti dizziness medication as well as pain relief. We have been given baytril to give to her orally for the next five days. Any advice would be welcome on ways to give it her as she still has her energy :)
She started eating basil whilst in the vets surgery so she hasn't lost her appetite yet. Just praying she carries on getting better and her head tilt doesn't get any worse. Thinking of giving her a bath tomorrow just in case, she is managing to clean her front paws but I don't think she can reach the back ones and she hasn't attempted to clean her stomach x
 
Liquorice said:
Well we have just returned. Turns out she has already been given anti dizziness medication as well as pain relief. We have been given baytril to give to her orally for the next five days. Any advice would be welcome on ways to give it her as she still has her energy :)
She started eating basil whilst in the vets surgery so she hasn't lost her appetite yet. Just praying she carries on getting better and her head tilt doesn't get any worse. Thinking of giving her a bath tomorrow just in case, she is managing to clean her front paws but I don't think she can reach the back ones and she hasn't attempted to clean her stomach x
Click to expand...

I really would not bath her, even 'well' Rabbits can become poorly as a direct result of being bathed. Wiping her over with a hypo-allergenic Pet Wipe would be a better idea :)

I hope that your Bunny responds well to treatment, recovery can be a slow process but it can happen xx
 
Liquorice said:
Well we have just returned. Turns out she has already been given anti dizziness medication as well as pain relief. We have been given baytril to give to her orally for the next five days. Any advice would be welcome on ways to give it her as she still has her energy :)
She started eating basil whilst in the vets surgery so she hasn't lost her appetite yet. Just praying she carries on getting better and her head tilt doesn't get any worse. Thinking of giving her a bath tomorrow just in case, she is managing to clean her front paws but I don't think she can reach the back ones and she hasn't attempted to clean her stomach x
Click to expand...

Please don't give her a bath! Bunnies find this very stressful, and it's also not necessary. You can well-dampen a clean flannel and rub it over the soiled area, and perhaps comb through ...

So good to hear she is eating, and many vibes that she begins her recovery very soon :)
 
Excellent advice is being give to help Liquorice. She still has a long way to go, but she does have spirit and determination to keep going which in itself is a positive step for her. Well done for seeking some support and understanding from fellow members on RU!
 
Thanks everyone,
I won't be giving her a bath then but I will find some useful way of cleaning her stomach. She has eaten a couple of pieces of dried food which is a great step :D as all she was eating was basil. She seems to enjoy running round the porch with food in her mouth :roll: she seems quite a bit more active than yesterday so I hope that's a good sign
 
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