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Minnie's mouth abscess

DeevDee

Young Bun
Our Nethie Minnie (aged 3) was taken to the vets to have her teeth burred as we noticed she was grinding her teeth and drooling. When under anaesthetic, the vet noticed an abscess in her mouth.
The vet put her on Baytril, but this had no affect and then we progressed to injected antibiotics. We took her in for those for 5 days and then the bank holiday came along. Today I was told that we'd have to start the antibiotics again from scratch and that she's need the injection for at least 14 days. (But the vet is closed on Sundays...)
She is OK in herself, eating and pooping as normal (we think, so hard to tell with two together) and at the moment she's her normal self apart from the teeth grinding. However the vet has explained that the abscess will only get worse and affect her quality of life. She also explained that abscesses are really hard to treat and antibiotics don't really work(??)
We love our Min but we are working horrible hours and work miles from home. It took me an hour to get to the vet from work today and they were almost closed when I got there.
I am faced with a horrible decision here which is basically spend a lot of money and somehow leave work early every day for 2 weeks and put my girl through 2 weeks of needles or take her in to be PTS.
I can't even contemplate that. I hate that this seems to complicated and from what I've read online, treating abscesses is pretty futile.
I hope someone reading this has some experience of this and can offer some advice, even if it's not what I want to hear - it would just help us with our decision.
Thanks, Dx
 
Has the Vet prescribed pain relief ?

Is the abscess in soft tissue in her mouth or is it in the tooth root ?

The Vet could show you how to do the injections then you would not have to take her to the surgery every day.

Abscesses can be very problematic to treat, but even if they cannot be totally cured it is possible to contain the infection. Much depends on whether the abscess is confined to soft tissue or if it also involves tooth root/bone.

Has the Vet suggested surgical intervention ?
 
Has the Vet prescribed pain relief ?

Is the abscess in soft tissue in her mouth or is it in the tooth root ?

The Vet could show you how to do the injections then you would not have to take her to the surgery every day.

Abscesses can be very problematic to treat, but even if they cannot be totally cured it is possible to contain the infection. Much depends on whether the abscess is confined to soft tissue or if it also involves tooth root/bone.

Has the Vet suggested surgical intervention ?

No pain relief.
I'm not sure were the abscess actually is. I believe it's in the soft tissue as they haven't mentioned a root problem.
I asked if I could do the injections but they refused.
The vet mentioned surgery today but after the antibiotics. I've just looked it up and sounds like the best way is surgery, then keeping the wound open and then 6 weeks of antibiotics. She's only tiny, I can't imagine putting her through all that.
 
I'ts a difficult decision to know what to do for the best.. i was taking Smudge to the vets to have that very discussion.. He fitted whilst there and was helped to the Bridge by vet.

In your shoes, i would listen to what vet has to say and what the vet recommends or suggests. you know your bunny and you know what care and medical assistance you can provide post op.if you marry all that info up. Make that decision based on your gut instinct and good advice.

Dont be pushed into making a decision right there and then, if bunnies medical situation allows , and then take stock.
The very very best of luck and vibes for little'un x
 
No pain relief.
I'm not sure were the abscess actually is. I believe it's in the soft tissue as they haven't mentioned a root problem.
I asked if I could do the injections but they refused.
The vet mentioned surgery today but after the antibiotics. I've just looked it up and sounds like the best way is surgery, then keeping the wound open and then 6 weeks of antibiotics. She's only tiny, I can't imagine putting her through all that.

If your vet refused to let you do the injections, I would ring around and find a vet who's used to dealing with rabbit abscesses. Injections don't hurt the rabbit when done properly and it's far more compassionate to have them done at home than repeated stress of vet visits. If she's teeth grinding then I would suggest pain relief in your case, although not all abscesses are painful.

I have treated dozens of abscesses with and without surgery and I have found an equal success rate. Much depends on a co-operative and savvy vet, and injections of penicillin over a period of at least 6 weeks. If you feel you cannot cope with this, then you have to explore the options for you and Minnie ...

Good luck.
 
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Can't offer any advise on this, but sending healing vibes to your little bun, and strengthening vibes for you- good luck :love:
 
Jack's-Jane's advise is fantastic and I'm sure she'll be back to follow up, but in the meantime...

Minnie definitely needs pain relief. Bunnies are complicated pets and in the veterinary profession are considered exotics. A vet who doesn't prescribe pain relief to a bunny, a species which hides pain very well and once pain is apparent it's usually quite severe, it signals to me that they are not a particularly 'bunny savvy' vet and certainly aren't an exotics specialist. Teeth grinding is a sign of pain so she definitely needs some pain relief.

My first port of call if I were you would be to find a competent exotics vet near you. You can easily find recommendations on here by asking for a 'rabbit savvy vet in x area' in rabbit chat - people are often very happy to recommend their practice!

In the meantime I would insist on pain relief for Minnie as it'll be very sore for her, and it may start to impact on her eating and drinking which is its own separate problem which it's best to avoid.

At an exotics specialist vet I would expect the vet to organise admitting Minnie into the surgery to take some skull x-rays to establish whether the abscess is 'just' in the soft tissue' or whether it protrudes into the jaw bone too. The surgery and any intervention such as draining etc is unlikely to be successful at all unless the vet has a full scope of the problem. Facial abscesses are very often dental related.

Have you been going to the vets for a while or are you a new client? I personally have found two different vets to be very accommodating about doing the injections at home, but I can understand their concern if you've not long been going there or for other reasons. It is a very big faff having to go once a day though... I would have though they could accommodate you after showing you how to do it.

Antibiotics alone are very unlikely to sort the abscess problem, as most antibiotics in rabbits can't successfully penetrate the thick abscess wall and even then the pus is very thick. You're right in thinking the best option is surgery to remove the entire abscess capsule, and then leave the wound open to flush out and pack with something (often manuka honey) a few times a day. During this period you may need to visit the vets every 3-5 days or so to check on the wound and help you keep it clean, but it'll likely drop down to once a week or so after the initial healing period and when you're more into a routine with it. The antibiotics at this point have a better chance at working because there's no thick abscess capsule or huge amount of pus to cope with.

I would definitely not want this vet to operate on my bunny considering what seems to be a lack of knowledge about bunnies. A good exotics vet could give you a clearer idea of how difficult it'll be to treat - it can vary widely depending on what the x-rays show.

My bunny Nena has been battling a jaw bone/tooth root abscess for around 6 and a half months now since it re-occured after first popping up a year or so ago. I originally saw a vet who was decent, but after having such excellent care at an exotics practice I'm very much about advocating excellent vets in the beginning. Nena has had a lot of small abscesses pop up in the same area because the first vet simply drained the abscess, which caused it to spread out and root all over the place - whereas if I'd have been knowledgeable enough to go to an exotics practice in the first place she'd have been done long before now. 6 months certainly isn't the normal amount of time that most people have to battle with an abscess, please don't take my case as a normal amount of time :shock:.

It very much depends on your bunny. Nena is a strong willed little fighter of a bunny, and she's not been phased by any of this at all. But I think my other bunny wouldn't cope as well as Nena does because she's more highly strung. With appropriate painkillers the pain is minimal - metacam is very effective in high doses as well as being very well tolerated and also quite yummy (apparently!), and tramadol and similar are often given after surgery to help with bone pain etc. A lot of appropriate antibiotics can be given orally, and many of them are very tasty (again, apparently!) so I found that Nena was actually looking forward to medicine time. A culture will help establish the best antibiotic(s) to use. If you choose not to go through with the treatment (which I think would be totally fair enough, and totally your choice) then the abscess can be managed in the medium to long term by giving antibiotics and painkillers, and by occasionally draining or lancing the abscess.

What I'm trying to say is not everything is this much of a battle. Many practices have amazing vets who will really work with you and your work times, and provide the best for your bunny too. Medication time can be fun, and cleaning out the abscess is not always massively time consuming or stressful. Bunnies can live a happy life for 23 or more hours a day while you're treating them. And without looking at x-rays etc it's not a death sentence, unless it's a very complicated one.
 
Thanks so much for the replies. I really do appreciate it and have found it so helpful to have more facts to hand. We are gonna need more time to think it over and will look into getting a second opinion.
 
Something else, is that there may be other options for antibiotics that don't have to be injected.
 
Something else, is that there may be other options for antibiotics that don't have to be injected.

It's possible, though over many years of using non-injectables a lot of rabbits lost their lives to abscesses. An abscess was something owners dreaded.

With the use of injectable penicillin there was more than a glimmer of hope. I've saved many a rabbit from certain death through long term use of injectable penicillin. Not saying it's a magic bullet, but even recently it's managed to eradicate an abscess which was unresponsive to other antibiotics. The rabbit has been abscess free for several years now ..
 
Something else, is that there may be other options for antibiotics that don't have to be injected.

Yep there are several antibiotics that might be effective that aren't injectable. I would recommend having a culture done to see what the bacteria will react best to. Some common ones are septrin (which is banana flavoured) or zithromax (which is sugary and smells like bakewell tart). Nena loved them both and hated baytril, so they were always easy to give.

The penicillin type antibiotics can often be more effective though, and they're injection only. Your new vet is likely to let you do it at home and it's nice and easy. Nena is always munching pellets when I inject her and she doesn't skip a bite so it clearly doesn't affect them too much!
 
Hi all, quick update on Minnie. We took her to a bunny savvy vet. The vet we used to go to with our foster buns so we knew they were good (should have gone there in the first place!) The vet was way more informative and explained why we couldn't inject at home (the medicine comes in a massive bottle and they can't give parts of it away as it has to stay in the bottle. The bottle is very expensive. She also said that for long term problems i.e. diabetes it is necessary but not for rabbits.) However she wanted to try her with another oral antibiotic. She is on the second week of that. The vet talked me through the operation but said again that the abscesses often come back. The op would have cost around £700. She asked me to check if the insurance covered it but to be honest I wouldn't put her through it. On the check up after a week of the new antibiotic, the vet noticed that Minnie's teeth spurs are coming back. It might be because she isn't eating hard foods as much or the vet said that teeth problems tend to come more often once they start.
The vet said that long term antibiotics and pain relief are damaging and didn't recommend carrying on for much longer. I now just need to keep an eye on her and take her back if she looks to be in pain or if I can see swelling. So, not a great verdict but one that we can prepare ourselves for when the time comes.
 
Hello, abscesses are such horrible things to treat. Well done for getting your bun the help she needs. Lots of vibes for you both. Best of luck x
 
Oh bless.... thanks for the update....

At least she'll have some time with you before you have to make a decision.....

I hope the abx help..

Love to you both
fee xxx
 
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