Recurring Eye Problem, Noise Making

Hi all. I'm new to this forum although I think I've posted in the past.

I've posted on another form but no one can seem to really help me. (Of course it's not their fault).

My bun is an 10 month old lionhead named Casper. I've had him since he was just a baby, and he's been with me his whole life.
He developed E.coli months ago, and was being treated for months (and the vet suggests we treat it again, soon) because the bacteria too, kept coming back. Finally off antibiotics, we've been through diarrhea, shots, vitamins, eye drops, and so many vet trips. All in all, he's a very happy bun who's been very strong his whole life.

He's always been very vocal, and very trusting. He has been squeaking and wheezing his entire life, and then someone helped me come to the conclusion it's just because he is very snub nosed/flat faced, and it makes sense since none of my other past rabbits have ever made noises like him. But I'm at lost for what to do now, other than just bringing him back and forth to the vet.
Almost two months ago Casper developed red irritation in his eye, I gave it a week to clear, then another (thinking it was from his liter or dust) and it never did. Brought him to the vet, he was prescribed eye drops and the vet said it was just slightly irritated and inflamed. Then, I gave that another week and a half to clear up, but it did not. Back to the vet, prescribed more eyedrops, looked better, two weeks later, not any better. So none of the eye drops were effective.

He hates letting me put the drops in, and it's the only thing he won't tolerate. Because of this I admit none of them were as accurate as they all should have been. I can tell he feels no discomfort in his eye area, nor does he ever squint or show any signs of pain. It never has any discharge either. My biggest problem is I don't have a very good camera to capture a photo of what his eye actually looks like, although I will attach some.

One of his eyes has a veil like thing in the corner, it's a bit thick, and clearish. It is not milky or foggy, and only covers the corner of his eye by a tiny bit, but it's been there for weeks. In the very same corner, it's also red. I guess the simplest way to describe it is as a blocked tear duct. Can I try to wash it out with anything? I'm scared I'll do more harm than good by trying to help him myself. If it's an infection, I don't want it spreading anywhere else...
Also, all the animals in my house have fleas because my dogs live outside, but are brought inside as well. I know for a fact Casper has them, and he usually scratches the inside of his ears, then shakes his head, and scratches his face. A lot. Which could also be another reason for the constant eye irritation.

Yes, we are going to treat everyone because it is getting out of hand, but I'm looking for something suitable for Casper, since everyone here is trying to sell me something made for dogs and cats.

Every time Casper grooms himself, he's been making noises now. I don't know how to describe them, and I've never heard them from a bun before. I've tried searching the internet for videos,etc but cannot find anything that comes close. He was making noises WEEKS ago, and the vet said he was fine and probably just had a little bit of phlegm.
A few days ago, he suddenly stopped doing what he was doing and made almost a sneeze sound and started grooming himself and eating whatever had just came out his mouth or nose. I'll assume it was his nose, since it was wet after that. Then he instantly went back to normal. He'll make the noises especially when grooming himself, or having to scratch himself. I've occasionally heard the "bubbly" nose sound as well. The noise is almost as if he has a stuffy nose, mixed with his usual nose squeaking sounds.

I live in Ecuador, and buns are not a popular pet, most usually are sold sick, or don't live too long. My vet handles all the animals in the house, and I can tell he has good intentions and he is highly trusted. We have been to several vets, and we think he has helped us the most. But he is mostly a cat and dog vet. No one here has any experience with rabbits, neither does anyone I live with, so I'm not sure who to confront anymore. I do know a small animal vet who has helped him twice, but she never wants to tell me what exactly she's giving him...so I tend to avoid her.

Both of these photos were taken 2 minutes between each other. Sorry for not cropping the red eye. From a far, his eye looks healthy. But closer, you can really see how it truly looks.




Thanks.

Hi :wave: Casper is gorgeous!

He may well have a blocked tear duct - mine does. If the roots of his teeth are elongated (too long) then they will basically grow up into the tear duct, so the duct does effectively become blocked. To see this requires a General Anaesthetic and an X-Ray, but I see you've posted you live in Ecuador. Is there a rabbit savvy (knowledgable) vet - or if not, a vet that is happy to anaesthetise and x ray bunnies - that is near-ish to you that may be able to perform this procedure?

I wouldn't risk doing anything else like washing it out, as that could potentially just make things worse and wouldn't really help as, if the tear duct IS blocked, it'd need flushing with saline.

Hello

I have a feeling he may have an abscess behind his eye. If you view the eye from above, looking down at the top of his head, does the effected eye appear to protrude more than the other one ? An abscess behind the eye would account for the inflammation and the noises (which are probably coming from his nostril on the same side as the effected eye. Also, the 'film' you can see in the corner of his eye is the nictitating membrane (third eyelid). This does become more exposed if there is an abscess behind the eye. Or the abscess could be in the nasolacrimal duct (tear duct)

When you say he was treated for E. Coli, do you actually mean E Cuniculli ? The two are very different.

Ony thing I could suggest is asking if your vet could contact a rabbit specialist in the U.K? I do not know if this is possible, but he could get some advice/guidance on how to help your gorgeous bun. x

I forgot to mention that my vet never checked his teeth, the vet tends to avoid handling my bun.
Oh no, all these sound terrible the reason why I did not get my bun neutered is because we did not trust any vets to do so, and risking his life wasn't worth having a bun with little hormonal problems. So of course, this would mean I wouldn't trust any vet around me with any surgery at all.

Jack's-Jane, thankfully, no, both of his eyes are equal. The only difference is the more irritated one has the film in the tear duct. If it helps, when I've opened his eye to administer eye drops, he has a thin red line on the blue of his eye. He was having orange to dark red mucus in his droppings for months. The first time we did a culture he was diagnosed with E.COLI. and it wasn't anything serious, just infection that we fought off with constant antibiotics since it kept coming back.

I don't know if it's all talk, but my vet does always try to solve the mystery about why my bun contracted E.coli and the mystery of the mucus poop. He's mentioned in the past that he'll speak to his colleagues about it, since he says more and more people are getting rabbits. My vet speaks a small amount of English as I speak to him in Spanish - how would that work out? In the end, he might not even want to. Should I just ask if he could contact any rabbit savvy vet? I think I should consider asking the vet if there's anything orally he can take, to see if it clears up.
My mother lives in the US, and I am going to have her contact a vet and see what they recommend, if they even want to help us.

Thank you all so much.

mariethomas said:

I forgot to mention that my vet never checked his teeth, the vet tends to avoid handling my bun.
Oh no, all these sound terrible the reason why I did not get my bun neutered is because we did not trust any vets to do so, and risking his life wasn't worth having a bun with little hormonal problems. So of course, this would mean I wouldn't trust any vet around me with any surgery at all.

Jack's-Jane, thankfully, no, both of his eyes are equal. The only difference is the more irritated one has the film in the tear duct. If it helps, when I've opened his eye to administer eye drops, he has a thin red line on the blue of his eye. He was having orange to dark red mucus in his droppings for months. The first time we did a culture he was diagnosed with E.COLI. and it wasn't anything serious, just infection that we fought off with constant antibiotics since it kept coming back.

I don't know if it's all talk, but my vet does always try to solve the mystery about why my bun contracted E.coli and the mystery of the mucus poop. He's mentioned in the past that he'll speak to his colleagues about it, since he says more and more people are getting rabbits. My vet speaks a small amount of English as I speak to him in Spanish - how would that work out? In the end, he might not even want to. Should I just ask if he could contact any rabbit savvy vet? I think I should consider asking the vet if there's anything orally he can take, to see if it clears up.
My mother lives in the US, and I am going to have her contact a vet and see what they recommend, if they even want to help us.

Thank you all so much.

Click to expand...

Re the whole language barrier thing - could your vet email a uk specialist, if he can type in English? Or, if not, could you be the translator? You speak excellent English!

Haha I should have mentioned I'm from the US
Update. I just spoke to my vet because he ordered a drug for my bun to treat mucus again, two weeks ago and it still hasn't arrived. But that's off topic. He asked how is eye is doing and I told him it's still the same, and I mentioned the two possibilites and it was almost as if he never thought about those two things. I'll be bringing him soon to be checked on.
Here is a video of the noise Casper begun making if anyones interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdnEDMT8i3U

You can hear them 0:07 - 0:09, 0:16 - 0:20, 0:25 - 0:30.

Hmmm. That is interesting. I have no experience with things like this but I would say it sounds like h may have something going on respiratory-wise. It also could be tooth roots protruding into the nasal cavity causing the noises. These are complete guesses and I am most likely completely wrong. But I would certainly want this checking out. Show your vet the video and see what he has to say. It must be frustrating not to have access to a decent rabbit vet.

I think the problem may well be within the nasal passages, especially the one on the left. There may be an accumulation of thick mucus up there and this could also effect the drainage from his eye. All of this might be associated with tooth root elongation, or it may be a chronic infection.

Whilst E. Coli usually presents with gastrointestinal symptoms, as I think you say happened with your Rabbit, it can also cause other disease processes including those of the Respiratory Tract. So given your Rabbit's history this should be taken into account by the Vet. E. Coli can be a very stubborn bacteria to thoroughly eliminate.

Another bacteria that can cause respiratory symptoms/ocular symptoms is Pasteurella. This type of bacteria can often proliferate if the Rabbit is ill in some other way or is experiencing physiological or psychological stress. Things to think about re your Rabbit include again the fact that he has recently had other health problems (physiological stress) and you say he has fleas (more physiological stress), he is un-neutered (physiological/psychological stress due to sexual frustration) and you have other animals whom he may find living with adds to his frustration (more psychological stress).


A multifaceted approach to trying to help him is what I would do. So not only giving various medications, but also trying to address the primary causes of his problems

Hope the Vet can help xx

What Jack's Jane said pretty much is everything I was thinking.

Since he has had issues with the e. coli that has probably been taxing to his immune system and that makes it easier for other bacteria in his respiratory system to cause problems. I would look at ways to improve his diet to keep his gut healthy so hopefully the e. coli doesn't come back and his immune system improves. It would be good if you could get some probiotics like Bene-bac to increase his good gut flora. I don't know if you can get Bene-bac in Ecuador but in most places they sell it at pet stores. You could also get it from Ebay or Amazon. Also, eating lots of hay is supposed to really work to clear the gut of bad bacteria, and drinking lots of water. If he ever does have mushy poos syringe feed water to keep gut hydrated and rabbit hydrated.

I listened the video and he makes a squeaky sound, sounds like two rubber balloons being rubbed together. I had a rabbit that also made that sound and she has a flat face too. She made the noise for 6 months but was healthy otherwise but then one day she started sneezing, then I noticed a little bit of white snot, then it slowly got worse. She had an upper respiratory infection and was treated with Azithromycin and she got better and has seemed fine ever since. I think when they have flatter faces their nasal passages are more prone to infection than with other rabbits.

I think with your rabbit, there might be a bacterial infection going on in his respiratory system and its effecting the tear duct, and sinuses nasal passages. You should watch carefully and check for any white snot especially if you see him sneeze.



Hopefully, its not the teeth roots growing into the sinuses, since he is young I would hope the roots haven't had time to grow that long because thats really hard to treat, The vet could check his back teeth with an otoscope to see if there's any sign of infection but the only way to see the roots is to do an xray.

Also, because he has a flatter face they are a little more prone to malocclusion, so again I would also try to encourage as much hay eating as possible because it keeps their teeth ground down and healthy.

Thanks for all the helpful replies everyone.
I took Casper to the vet two days ago, and the vet said his eyes looked a lot a better than the last time and that the inflamation and irritation was almost gone. And honestly, in the vets office his eye did look a lot better, but of course when we arrived home it just looked the same redness to me. A lot of people have told me their buns have the same physical eye problem as Caspers, and it never gets any better or worse. Hopefully, this is the case. I mentioned the possibilities you all mentioned, and he didn't really seem to think it was any of those. I also mentioned that his third eyelid was very prominent and he explained it was just protecting itself and it wasn't anything to worry about.

Also, we are going to treat him again for mucus poops. I mentioned it to the vet 3 weeks ago, and in 3 weeks, he had it about 5 more times. We are still waiting for the medication to arrive.

I tried to show him the video as suggested, but we couldn't hear anything thanks to the dogs barking at the vet. I ended up describing it and he said it was probably due to the cold and it would pass. He is however, making the noise less often. He's been making a new clicking sound (like when they chew on something) when being pet, or sometimes just by himself. Not a lot, but it's there if you focus. No, it is not teeth grinding. I've heard in person and it's something that will always stay with me. My bun was not neutered because I didn't want to risk his life for the surgery - and I loved his personality. He is 9 months, and has always had perfect behavior. Today I went to give him a treat while he was under the bed, and he ended up charging at my hand and biting me. In almost a year he has never bit me or charged. He's been acting more hormonal these days though. There was three people in the room when this happened, and he charged at all of us and then went back to his spot under the bed. Hopefully it was just because my brother was there (doesn't really like him).