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Please help.

Gig36cats

New Kit
Hi I'm new to this forum so I'm sorry if I'm doing this all wrong, but I am so desperate. I have had my rabbit for the last three years, he was running round near to where I work for months, he was owned by some students, who thought it was ok to just release him when they went back home. Anyway everything has been fine until this year, three times so far he has had obvious problems with his gut, he won't eat, poop and just lays down looking miserable. The first two visits to the vets, he has two injections, one to kill any bacteria and another to stimulate his appetite, both worked very quickly, the last time he had it was about 2 weeks ago and seeing a different vet, I was told the trouble could be his teeth and they could do the dental work that day, I declined as I was not convinced they were right, as my point is that if rabbits teeth grow every day, and this problem first started at the beginning of the year, would it then disappear for a couple of months and be fine, then return again? So he was given his usual injections and I said regardless of whether he ate in the night or not, I would return the following day for another appetite stimulant injection. Anyway when I went to let him out the following day, there was only what I can describe as wee with a small amount of poop in, then I found what looked like a blob of mucus, so I took him back to the vet, I saw a different one this time, I also took two samples of poop one of which was the mucus, the vet treated him for worms there & then, I mentioned the vets diagnosis from the previous day, which was his teeth could be the problem. This vet said no it was not his teeth as he is obviously digesting his food, he asked what I fed him, which was a small amount of pellet dried food, handful of greens that could include kale and broccoli and a couple of slices of carrot, the vet said rabbits do not need such things, only grass and hay, I always put hay for him, but he doesn't seem interested in hay at all. My rabbit was much brighter that day, my concern was with the poop. So I have removed everything with a very heavy heart, so now he is having just hay and a small amount of pellets, but I'm not even sure he is eating the hay, if he is it's very little quantities, his cage has a lift up door which gives him access to the garden, I open it around 6am and he is locked up just before dark, so he munches on the grass practically all day. His water intake has gone through the roof, but I'm not overly concerned as all he has on offer to eat is dry. Today we have not had as many poops over the garden, where there use to be loads of those nightly wet ones, today's poops have been a mixture of quite normal and black slugs. I'm worrying myself to death, that he is not eating enough. Sorry if I've rambled on but my nerves are wrecked.
 
I'm sorry you have this concern with your rabbit. Dental problems are unfortunately quite common in rabbits, especially if they are reluctant to eat hay, although you do mention that your rabbit eats grass which should help wear down the teeth. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it is possible that a rabbit could have a problem with his back teeth that might not be visible from just looking in its mouth during a standard examination. It might be worth speaking again to vet who originally advised dental treatment for your rabbit.

The second vet is right about rabbits not needing the veg you were feeding, but many responsible rabbit owners feed small amounts of veg daily with no problems. I hope you can find a diet that sorts out your rabbit's problem. It might be worth trying a different hay.
 
I'm sorry you have this concern with your rabbit. Dental problems are unfortunately quite common in rabbits, especially if they are reluctant to eat hay, although you do mention that your rabbit eats grass which should help wear down the teeth. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it is possible that a rabbit could have a problem with his back teeth that might not be visible from just looking in its mouth during a standard examination.

I am getting different diagnosis from different vets, he is eating fine, well he was until the vet told me to take everything away from him, going back to the teeth diagnosis, I still struggle to believe that he would be ok for a couple of months and then be bad for a day or two. The second vet said that he is digesting his food and if it were his teeth, he would not be digesting it. My concern is the removing if everything he enjoyed, I read somewhere that kale and broccoli can cause gas, so I'm wondering if that was the cause of the three bouts of gut problems this year. I'm scared I am starving him by giving him nothing other than hay, that he's not really touching. I have put in two different types of hay, but it doesn't look as though he's really touched it.
 
Hi and welcome to the forum! Sorry you have been brought here with such worries though! They are such a stress when they are poorly!!

It could be that the tooth roots are starting elongate. Long before my bunny had symptomatic issues with her teeth, she had a couple of bouts of gi. I think some rabbits can be mega sensitive too to tiny spurs which wouldn't show without an X-ray or proper examination. Sometimes the tiny spurs can also be bigger when they go into surgery too. As far as I know, they are generally are still able to chew their food even with dental spurs.

To cut a long story short, it might be worth getting a second opinion from your vets? Or even a different vets. Someone told me you can contact the rwaf in the uk for a good rabbit vets list who might be able to help.

If your bunny is used to have lots of veggies, you could try cutting them down gradually when he is feeling better and off the purely hay diet?

Hope he feels better soon.
 
Hi and welcome to the forum! Sorry you have been brought here with such worries though! They are such a stress when they are poorly!!

It could be that the tooth roots are starting elongate. Long before my bunny had symptomatic issues with her teeth, she had a couple of bouts of gi. I think some rabbits can be mega sensitive too to tiny spurs which wouldn't show without an X-ray or proper examination. Sometimes the tiny spurs can also be bigger when they go into surgery too. As far as I know, they are generally are still able to chew their food even with dental spurs.

To cut a long story short, it might be worth getting a second opinion from your vets? Or even a different vets. Someone told me you can contact the rwaf in the uk for a good rabbit vets list who might be able to help.

If your bunny is used to have lots of veggies, you could try cutting them down gradually when he is feeling better and off the purely hay diet?

Hope he feels better soon.

So far he is fine in himself, I'm just worried that I have not do pen right by taking everything away, I was told on another forum to just give him hay, and if he is hungry, he will eat it, I'm just not sure and I'm worried sick he is hungry. He does have access to grass all day, but will that be enough if he's not eating anything else. I'm concerned about having teeth work done as I'm scared of losing him, the first vet said that if he gets the tummy upset again, dental work should be considered, I am trying amend his diet, have you heard that kale and broccoli can cause gas? I will not be giving him either of them again, simply to rule it out. I'm not sure I have done right by taking everything away from him, it's really playing on my mind that he could be starving. I don't even know how long to keep him on the hay diet. The vet that dismissed the teeth problem said that if that was the case, the food just goes round and round and is not digested, but my rabbit is digesting the food.
 
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So far he is fine in himself, I'm just worried that I have not do pen right by taking everything away, I was told on another forum to just give him hay, and if he is hungry, he will eat it, I'm just not sure and I'm worried sick he is hungry. He does have access to grass all day, but will that be enough if he's not eating anything else. I'm concerned about having teeth work done as I'm scared of losing him, the first vet said that if he gets the tummy upset again, dental work should be considered, I am trying amend his diet, have you heard that kale and broccoli can cause gas? I will not be giving him either of them again, simply to rule it out. I'm not sure I have done right by taking everything away from him, it's really playing on my mind that he could be starving. I don't even know how long to keep him on the hay diet.

I have never fed mine kale I'm afraid but I do broccoli. I don't feed them very much though just a couple of small sprigs between them maybe once every few weeks. I feed the cauliflower, tiny amounts of carrots and herbs mostly. I try to mix it up a bit because they get bored quickly but Walter my bunny is a very fussy eater.

I wouldn't like to say but if he has had some hay you could always chat to your vet tomorrow about giving him some other foods too? Walter won't eat much green food at all but eats hay and few pellets and he is just fine so I wouldn't worry about a hay only diet. How long has he been on it?

There are loads of people who have bunnies who with good vets have regular dental work without any issues and some who have bunnies who have just one or two burrings and don't need further treatment (you can search for dental bunny threads at the top) :) so I think that although any surgery is a worry, if your vets are good then it shouldn't be any more risky than general surgery. I had an elderly bunny have one dental years ago and she didn't need another after so I think it's too soon to worry too much about his future. :)

Hope this settles your mind some. :wave:
 
If he is eating plenty of grass, and still eating his pellets, the hay is not so important - it would be if he didn't have access to grass. Yes, kale and broccoli can cause gas in some rabbits. Have you ever tried feeding fresh herbs, such as coriander, mint, parsley etc? It sometimes takes a while for the rabbit to start eating these, as they smell strong, but lots of rabbits love them when they've got used to them, and they shouldn't cause gas. I feed watercress too which doesn't cause problems. But you should only give small amounts to begin with, so you don't upset his tummy with something new.

Did the vet examine his abdomen to see if it felt normal or gassy? Did he listen to see if the gut was moving?

It doesn't sound like dental problems if it comes and goes :? Did the vet look in his mouth?
 
I have never fed mine kale I'm afraid but I do broccoli. I don't feed them very much though just a couple of small sprigs between them maybe once every few weeks. I feed the cauliflower, tiny amounts of carrots and herbs mostly. I try to mix it up a bit because they get bored quickly but Walter my bunny is a very fussy eater.

I wouldn't like to say but if he has had some hay you could always chat to your vet tomorrow about giving him some other foods too? Walter won't eat much green food at all but eats hay and few pellets and he is just fine so I wouldn't worry about a hay only diet. How long has he been on it?

There are loads of people who have bunnies who with good vets have regular dental work without any issues and some who have bunnies who have just one or two burrings and don't need further treatment (you can search for dental bunny threads at the top) :) so I think that although any surgery is a worry, if your vets are good then it shouldn't be any more risky than general surgery. I had an elderly bunny have one dental years ago and she didn't need another after so I think it's too soon to worry too much about his future. :)

Hope this settles your mind some. :wave:

Do you think I should feed him more than hay just in case? Without a doubt if the problem with his gut does reappear I will have to see about dental work. What I have noticed is before putting him on just the hay diet, we had loads of those nightly poops in the garden, you know the ones they are meant to eat. Now today there are hardly any poops at all and there wasn't as many poops in his cage from last night, but I don't know if less food would cause less poops. It's the taking his food away that I have a problem with, his bad guts may of been due to too much of a particular green, maybe I have overdone it considering he grazes on the grass all day. Surely a little of his pellets and one slice of carrot won't hurt a day.
 
There are a few things that could be going on. Rabbit's digestion relies on large amounts of fibre, which they usually get from hay or grass, this helps food move through the gut and a lack of is can cause/contribute to the gut slowing down and them stopping eating. To cope with this they have teeth that continually grow as grass is rough and wears them down. If they aren't eating a hay based diet they can get overgrown teeth (which can cause mouth sores) and it means their digestive system doesn't run as efficiently as it should. When rabbits feel unwell e.g. have sore teeth, they often stop eating which again causes the gut to stop working. Rabbits with dental problems don't necessarily stop eating completely though. Has your vet looked at the back teeth with an otoscope - the thing they use to look in ears?

Your (third?) vet is right, improving your rabbits diet and increasing hay intake should be a long term goal to improve his overall health. But it's also important for their digestive system to keep food moving through it so taking away everything and expecting them to suddenly eat piles of hay isn't necessarily the best way to go about it, particularly is your rabbit is currently in the middle of a stasis episode (not eating/slow gut) when it's important to get food to keep going through.

A more gradual change in diet tends to be safer and easier. I would keep the leafy greens (they are good fibre) but remove carrot/fruits, and feed some pellets but reduce the quantity (how much are you feeding at the moment?). Try different hays to see if there are any he likes. Fresh grass is also a good one to try - though introduce it gradually. If he likes greens he might like grass.

Forage is also a good way to increase fibre - these are 'wild' foods like dandelion, bramble, raspberry leaves, strawberry leaves, thistle - whilst not as good as hay for teeth wear they are high in fibre so very good for the digestive system.

I've some basics on diet on my website here, which would be good for you to read to help understand how it all works: http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/

It's also possible that your rabbit has issues that's causing trouble more immediately, for example Coccidiosis can cause mucus like diarrhoea. Hopefully the vet can examine the poop samples to identify this.
 
If he is eating plenty of grass, and still eating his pellets, the hay is not so important - it would be if he didn't have access to grass. Yes, kale and broccoli can cause gas in some rabbits. Have you ever tried feeding fresh herbs, such as coriander, mint, parsley etc? It sometimes takes a while for the rabbit to start eating these, as they smell strong, but lots of rabbits love them when they've got used to them, and they shouldn't cause gas. I feed watercress too which doesn't cause problems. But you should only give small amounts to begin with, so you don't upset his tummy with something new.

Did the vet examine his abdomen to see if it felt normal or gassy? Did he listen to see if the gut was moving?

It doesn't sound like dental problems if it comes and goes :? Did the vet look in his mouth?

He has access to grass every day, he is constantly eating that. I have taken everything away from him, he has no pellets, nothing! This is why I am worried, he use to have such a big selection and loved dinner time, now there's nothing but hay, which he isn't fussed on, but people are saying if he's hungry he will eat it.
The vet has listened to his tummy on all three occasions he has had gut ache, and his gut has either slowed down or stopped, two injections later he is fine again very quickly, one injection to kill any bacteria and the other to encourage him to eat. I have never given herbs, but I do know before his latest bout of gut problem, I had fed him kale.
 
There are a few things that could be going on. Rabbit's digestion relies on large amounts of fibre, which they usually get from hay or grass, this helps food move through the gut and a lack of is can cause/contribute to the gut slowing down and them stopping eating. To cope with this they have teeth that continually grow as grass is rough and wears them down. If they aren't eating a hay based diet they can get overgrown teeth (which can cause mouth sores) and it means their digestive system doesn't run as efficiently as it should. When rabbits feel unwell e.g. have sore teeth, they often stop eating which again causes the gut to stop working. Rabbits with dental problems don't necessarily stop eating completely though. Has your vet looked at the back teeth with an otoscope - the thing they use to look in ears?

Your (third?) vet is right, improving your rabbits diet and increasing hay intake should be a long term goal to improve his overall health. But it's also important for their digestive system to keep food moving through it so taking away everything and expecting them to suddenly eat piles of hay isn't necessarily the best way to go about it, particularly is your rabbit is currently in the middle of a stasis episode (not eating/slow gut) when it's important to get food to keep going through.

A more gradual change in diet tends to be safer and easier. I would keep the leafy greens (they are good fibre) but remove carrot/fruits, and feed some pellets but reduce the quantity (how much are you feeding at the moment?). Try different hays to see if there are any he likes. Fresh grass is also a good one to try - though introduce it gradually. If he likes greens he might like grass.

Forage is also a good way to increase fibre - these are 'wild' foods like dandelion, bramble, raspberry leaves, strawberry leaves, thistle - whilst not as good as hay for teeth wear they are high in fibre so very good for the digestive system.

I've some basics on diet on my website here, which would be good for you to read to help understand how it all works: http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/

It's also possible that your rabbit has issues that's causing trouble more immediately, for example Coccidiosis can cause mucus like diarrhoea. Hopefully the vet can examine the poop samples to identify this.

He has access to the garden all day, he spends most of that time eating grass, yes the first vet did look at his back teeth and said there were small spurs, and if problems persisted he should have dental work. I have taken everything from him, the second vet said he doesn't need anything apart from grass and hay.
 
I have just given him a small amount of pellets and one dandelion leaf, see how he gets on, as it's a lot less than what I use to give him, maybe I overdid the greens considering he is munching grass all day. If the gut problem returns I will have to get the dental work done and take it from there, just the thought of that is making me shake. Thank you everyone I feel happier just giving him some food, he soon ate the dandelion leaf. :)
 
Ahh, did you tell the vet he eats grass when they brought up hay? You can use hay and grass interchangeably. Everyone says 'hay' usually when talking about rabbit's diet as that's convenient for a lot of people e.g. if they don't have a garden BUT grass is just as good as hay, if not better. If he's eating lots of grass each day then it doesn't surprise me he's turning his nose up at hay. And that's ok :)

As he's already eating grass, my advice would be to make sure he always has it available - I just poped out in the garden to cut my rabbit a bowl full for his supper. He's not keen on eating hay if there is grass available either - after all why eat the old dried stuff when you can have it fresh :)

Grass is great for teeth and the digestive system. In that case, I'd cut right back on pellets (least good for teeth wear), make sure he always has a supply of grass, and then feed leafy green and dandelion etc. He will then fill up on grass (the same way people he told you he would with hay) and that's good for him. Grass causes wear of the teeth which hopefully will help with the sharp points.
 
And just to add, rabbits can do fine on a hay (or grass) only diet for a week or two - although longer term it's good to add in other plants to make sure you get a good range of vitamins/minerals and to give them some variety.

It sounds really drastic, but if you think that's all wild rabbits eat.
 
Ahh, did you tell the vet he eats grass when they brought up hay? You can use hay and grass interchangeably. Everyone says 'hay' usually when talking about rabbit's diet as that's convenient for a lot of people e.g. if they don't have a garden BUT grass is just as good as hay, if not better. If he's eating lots of grass each day then it doesn't surprise me he's turning his nose up at hay. And that's ok :)

As he's already eating grass, my advice would be to make sure he always has it available - I just poped out in the garden to cut my rabbit a bowl full for his supper. He's not keen on eating hay if there is grass available either - after all why eat the old dried stuff when you can have it fresh :)

Grass is great for teeth and the digestive system. In that case, I'd cut right back on pellets (least good for teeth wear), make sure he always has a supply of grass, and then feed leafy green and dandelion etc. He will then fill up on grass (the same way people he told you he would with hay) and that's good for him. Grass causes wear of the teeth which hopefully will help with the sharp points.

Yes I tell the vet every time I go that the rabbit is munching fresh grass all day everyday, but I'm sure they don't listen, I think they just think of a rabbit stuck in a cage all day every day, mines the opposite, he can be out from 6am until gone 9pm, it's up to him, but he gets locked up whilst it's dark. How much pellet food would you suggest and is there anything else you could suggest that would be ok for a bunny with a touchy tummy.
 
What pellet brand are you using? Do it have the protein/fibre content listed on the pack - high fibre (19%+) is good, and not too high protein (around 12-14%).

With lots of fresh grass and greens I would usually feed about 15g of pellets per 1kg of rabbit. Or if you can't weigh them/him then 1-2 egg cups per day for a medium rabbit. They really don't need a lot of pellets.

I cut him grass to eat overnight as well as he won't eat the hay, that way he's always got it to munch on.

Any rabbit-safe wild plants are generally really good as they are tougher than human vegetables. What sort of weeds do you get near you? Brambles/blackberry leaves are really good for bunnies with tummy issues.

Where about do you live? Maybe we can help you find a vet that's a bit more rabbit savvy and listens! It's really tough when you don't feel like you can trust you vet and you're getting lots of conflicting info.
 
What pellet brand are you using? Do it have the protein/fibre content listed on the pack - high fibre (19%+) is good, and not too high protein (around 12-14%).

With lots of fresh grass and greens I would usually feed about 15g of pellets per 1kg of rabbit. Or if you can't weigh them/him then 1-2 egg cups per day for a medium rabbit. They really don't need a lot of pellets.

I cut him grass to eat overnight as well as he won't eat the hay, that way he's always got it to munch on.

Any rabbit-safe wild plants are generally really good as they are tougher than human vegetables. What sort of weeds do you get near you? Brambles/blackberry leaves are really good for bunnies with tummy issues.

Where about do you live? Maybe we can help you find a vet that's a bit more rabbit savvy and listens! It's really tough when you don't feel like you can trust you vet and you're getting lots of conflicting info.


He has always been fed on Harringtons which has Protein 13.5% fat content 4.5% crude fibre 17% crude ash 7% calcium 0.7% phosphorous 0.5%.
I do have a bag of supreme science selective which I am trying to introduce, it has high fibre 25% but as of yet he isn't overly keen.
I live in Newport Shropshire.
I think I am just working myself in to a state with worry that his gut issue will return, I convinced myself last night that he going to be ill today, but he's fine. I have just lost confidence in myself for being a good rabbit mummy I think.
 
He has always been fed on Harringtons which has Protein 13.5% fat content 4.5% crude fibre 17% crude ash 7% calcium 0.7% phosphorous 0.5%.
I do have a bag of supreme science selective which I am trying to introduce, it has high fibre 25% but as of yet he isn't overly keen.
I live in Newport Shropshire.
I think I am just working myself in to a state with worry that his gut issue will return, I convinced myself last night that he going to be ill today, but he's fine. I have just lost confidence in myself for being a good rabbit mummy I think.

You sound like a fantastic rabbit mummy, coming on here and doing loads of research and visiting lots of different vets to try and do right by your bunny! I would recommend emailing the RWAF (their email address or a contact form can be found on their website) and they will be able to recommend a rabbit specialist in your area. Rabbits are classed as exotics so not all vets are clued up, and once you find a vet you can trust and who really knows what they are talking about you'll feel so much better!

One of my rabbits gets a gassy tummy from any kind of cabbagey vegetable like kale, spring greens, Brussel sprouts etc and also broccoli and I eventually gave up on veg cos it was so touch and go whether or not she would tolerate it! I just feed herbs and forage now, we grow thyme, mint, roses and lavender in the garden for them and I pick apple and Hawthorne leaves, brambles, dandelions etc from nearby. If you're worried about veg you could cut it out for now and try to introduce a few more natural foods. Some rabbits are just a bit more sensitive :)

Good luck with your bunny I hope you can sort it out

ETA I forgot to add that my bunnies were a bit overweight a while ago and I put them on a hay only diet for a few weeks (on the advice of my rabbit savvy vet) and they were fine. Obviously it won't work if your bunny doesn't like hay! But if he is eating grass and has constant access to it then I wouldn't worry too much. I gradually started introducing the herbs and forage after this and they get about half a tablespoon of pellets between them a day.
 
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