Thymoma / UD At the Bridge now

I am not long back from the emergency vet with Emrys and tbh I am not sure I am happy the diagnoses. The vet I saw was clearly not rabbit savvy. She diagnosed cherry eye and gave us some eyedrops and said he might need surgery to repair the lids. I have never experienced cherry eye in rabbits so I don't know how accurate this is although I know it is done for dogs. She dealt with us fairly briskly as there was an RTA to attend to as well but I am really not happy. She shone a light into his eyes, felt his abdomen and checked his heart. I really wanted to discuss having him x rayed or scanned potentially. She did not check his teeth and I really wanted her to. I had a look with my own otoscope though and can't see any obvious spurs but I am concerned about an impacted root possible being the cause although to date he has never had dental issues. Either way, I will be making a complaint. The bloody consult alone cost £100 and I did not pay that to be fobbed off have my rabbit's suffering prolonged:evil: I really do understand that the RTA had to be prioritized and that there is only one vet on but I can't help feel we were fobbed off a bit. She even said he could have waited to be seen til next week

But regarding Emrys, his eyes began to bulge from around the wee small hours (we think) of last night (we noticed this morning). His appetite has decreased a little and he is more docile although he is still nudging my hand and grooming me. When he walks, he takes tentative steps and splays his ears out and forwards almost as though he is using them like his whiskers to scope out the surrounding area. I am concerned his vision is impaired. There is some white discharge that collects on the fur under the eye at times so the fur is a little wet. Its a kind of eye goo like humans get sometimes and there is not much. The tops of the eyeballs are bloodshot, some veins are incredibly red. Both eyes seem to bulge symmetrically. And when he gets nervous like he did at the vet, they bulge worse than ever, they look like they are on the verge of prolapse I feel like that by taking him today I have needlessly caused him more stress

I am concerned its a severe eye infection or something like glaucoma or something worse still like a tumour or fluid on the brain which is causing the eyeballs to bulge Needless to say Emrys is going to see my regular vet tomorrow and hopefully we will get either a confirmation or alternative diagnoses. He is almost 7 years old so not that young but not that old either. My 11 year old bunny has more bounce just now. Emrys is lying down a lot and seems to want to avoid walking. His hocks also look a just a little raw which I believe is due to his persistent sitting over the last two days. I have dabbed on some sudocrem just now and made his run more suitable for a bunny with vision impairment.

Is there anything else I can do for him to keep him comfortable till tomorrow's appointment? Has anyone seen anything like this before and knows what he might be suffering from I would really appreciate any advice and Emrys could really do with some vibes.

So these pictures show the eyes bulging and the third eyelids are very prominent and bloodshot.




When he is a bit more relaxed the eyes look like this which is not normal but better.



This is how Emrys looked before the eye condition started.

Bless him. It's hard to tell from the photos but that doesn't look like cherry eye to me, that looks like bulging of the eyes themselves not just of the membrane.

Bulging of both eyes at once can be a symptom of things like raised blood pressure or fluid on the chest (e.g. due to a thymoma) I'd have thought that something like that would be more likely especially given his age, and it also fits in with it getting worse when he's stressed. You might not want to try it but supposedly a good way to confirm whether it's related to something like this is to gently and briefly hold bunny in 'wheelbarrow' position, i.e. With back legs slightly off the ground - if the eyes protrude further then it pretty much confirms something along these lines (there can be various causes, of course).

Hopefully he will stay nice and calm and comfortable tonight so you can get him to your usual vet tomorrow. If your normal vet diagnoses differently, I would be inclined to write to the emergency vet requesting a refund.

Hope your little one is ok x x

It would be best to get him to a bunny savvy vet as soon as possible to get it checked out. I hope it is something less serious than thymoma.

One of my buns had thymoma and a symptom of this is, as Santa says, can be bulging eyes. It started when he put his head down to eat I noticed the eyelid protruding so got him checked out. The wheelbarrow test is pretty conclusive (I believe) that if the eyes bulge more when doing this then there is pressure in the chest area. You could also ask your vet if they could do a conscious x-ray of the chest area.

Sending him lots of vibes x

I agree that 'Thymoma' is a possibility. I hope you are able to see a Rabbit Savvy Vet today. In my experience the 'Wheelbarrow' test is not totally reliable as a diagnostic tool, especially in the early stages of the development of a mass in the chest. I have had/have a few Rabbits who have developed a Thymoma. The tumour can be very slow growing and with treatment the Rabbit can continue to enjoy life for several months. Sometimes over a year.

There can be other causes of 'bulging eyes' too, so a Thymoma is not inevitable.

Sending vibes for him xx

I don't have any experience of this, so I can't offer advice, but I just wanted to send vibes for him, hope you get on better with your usual vet :thumb: xx

Zoobec said:

I don't have any experience of this, so I can't offer advice, but I just wanted to send vibes for him, hope you get on better with your regular vet :thumb: xx

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Seconded. ((((((Vibes)))))) I really hope things will go better for you and Emrys with your usual vet. Thinking of you. xxxx

Thanks everyone. Emrys is much the same this morning and his eyes are still bulging He has an appointment at 5.15. Ideally I would have him in sooner but I have requested a specific vet so now we watch him and wait. He is such a nice boy.

I remember when Mona had glaucoma, the affected eye bulged a little and it was bloodshot but I do feel because both of Emrys' eyes are bulging it must be something much more serious.

I don't have any experience of tumours in rabbits. Can anyone tell me if with treatment his eyes will stop bulging and if Emrys can survive this or is the kindest option pts. Also will he be in pain just now with bulging eyes and a possible tumour in his chest?

Also what is the best way to confirm or rule out a thymoma, is it an x ray? I need to be prepared for everything. I am reading about thymomas ( and it does tally with Emrys' symtpoms ) just now but I would prefer to hear from anyone on here with personal experience. I will not prolong Emrys' suffering for my sake but I don't want to rob him of life too soon either.

Jack's-Jane said:

I agree that 'Thymoma' is a possibility. I hope you are able to see a Rabbit Savvy Vet today. In my experience the 'Wheelbarrow' test is not totally reliable as a diagnostic tool, especially in the early stages of the development of a mass in the chest. I have had/have a few Rabbits who have developed a Thymoma. The tumour can be very slow growing and with treatment the Rabbit can continue to enjoy life for several months. Sometimes over a year.

There can be other causes of 'bulging eyes' too, so a Thymoma is not inevitable.

Sending vibes for him xx

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What kind of treatment helps Jane?

I have not done the wheelbarrow test, tbh I am reluctant to lift him at all more than necessary. His eyes bulge so badly when he is lifted. Also can it be possible that his vision is impaired?

Fifibutton said:

What kind of treatment helps Jane?

I have not done the wheelbarrow test, tbh I am reluctant to lift him at all more than necessary. His eyes bulge so badly when he is lifted. Also can it be possible that his vision is impaired?

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Some thymomas are malignant and in humans surgery/radiotherapy and chemotherapy are needed. But in Rabbits this is something for which little research has been done. Surgery would be complex, I believe Mark Rowland from Trinity Vets in Kent has performed the operation. I dont know what the outcome was though and I dont know if he has ever used Chemotherapy. For my Rabbits they had what I guess would be called palliative care. This included giving a long acting corticosteroid injection, antibiotic cover, a histamine H2-receptor antagonist eg Zantac (corticosteroids can cause gastric ulceration). In the latter stages a diuretic was included as the mass caused a build up of fluid with the chest and this inhibited lung function.

All Rabbits remained 'well within themselves' until the very end. Some did have additional health problems too and it was actually those other problems that led to the PTS decision as opposed to 'just' the Thymoma.

Jack's-Jane said:

Some thymomas are malignant and in humans surgery/radiotherapy and chemotherapy are needed. But in Rabbits this is something for which little research has been done. Surgery would be complex, I believe Mark Rowland from Trinity Vets in Kent has performed the operation. I dont know what the outcome was though and I dont know if he has ever used Chemotherapy. For my Rabbits they had what I guess would be called palliative care. This included giving a long acting corticosteroid injection, antibiotic cover, a histamine H2-receptor antagonist eg Zantac (corticosteroids can cause gastric ulceration). In the latter stages a diuretic was included as the mass caused a build up of fluid with the chest and this inhibited lung function.

All Rabbits remained 'well within themselves' until the very end. Some did have additional health problems too and it was actually those other problems that led to the PTS decision as opposed to 'just' the Thymoma.

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Thanks for explaining this. I am aware that radiotherapy and cancer treatment is limited in rabbits. TBH I don't think I could put a rabbit through all that for the sake of two or three years. Palliative care sounds more reasonable or at least less invasive and stressful for a rabbit. If this becomes the case would it be better for Emrys to move indoors. Just now he is a garden rabbit and has his independence although he he is not moving around as much just now or enjoying the garden. In fact he stayed in a tunnel during his entire free range time. So perhaps he won't mind. Maybe Orla would even be willing to be friends with him like she did with Mona during her illness. I am doing a lot of conjecturing just about what it may be or what I can do for him. But just looking at other rabbits with thymoma on goggle images, well they look just like Emrys

Just left the Vet, a Thymoma is very likely and he will be x rayed tomorrow will post more when I get home.

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Topping up the vibes, whatever it is I know he will get the best of care :thumb: hugs xx

Ok, I'm back now. Emyrs was seen by my regular vet who also advocated and offered to support me through the complaints procedure about the emergency vet care we received.

Emrys was given a near full physical exam. He was very stressed to be there so the one thing that was not checked were his teeth but any issues with them will become apparent during an x ray. Because his eyes are bulging bilaterally it is presumed there is a source of pressure. Possibly in the chest but more likely to be higher up. This is because his heart was checked and it is sound and steady. Normally a mass in the chest would force the heart down and affected the rhythm. This does not mean there isn't a mass just unlikely. Also he seems to have little or no vision. His eyes did not respond to light, air or motion even though he can blink. Right now we want to ascertain what there inside him and how large and if there is a spread. If its bad then I think we have think about letting him go sooner rather than later. However given he is still eating and showing that he has quality of life, if the mass is not too big or far spread then we may go down the palliative care route. It depends how invasive and how stressful this will be for poor Emrys. But from tomorrow once we have the x ray we will now how to proceed from there. Thank you so much everyone for all the vibes, support and advice. I really really appreciate it and have to admit we may need more in the coming week

Sending lots of vibes for him xxx

Lots more vibes being sent xx

More vibes and prayers from me for dear Emrys. And ((((((((((huge hugs))))))) for you. xxxxxxxx

Thanks everyone. I just wanted to say, all the advice helped me to go in prepared, I was able to state what I felt was wrong but also what I wanted done. If you had not told me about a thymoma I might have ended up pursuing a different avenue and opting for the wrong treatment or be misguided by the e vet. But at least now I feel prepared. It happened so suddenly and if we lose him soon then at least we had the chance to determine what was wrong for both Emrys' and our sake. It is hard going losing a pet and not knowing why so there is some comfort in that. But for now our priority is making sure Emrys will be as comfortable as possible.

Just wanted to send loads of vibes. I hope the x-ray goes ok tomorrow.

This thread has been a huge help to me, as my Fluff has just developed the same symptoms.

Lots of vibes for tomorrow, hope the x-ray goes well and gives you a diagnosis - hopefully one which can result in a treatment which can keep your little one comfortable and happy for a while yet.

Big hugs xxx