A thought about P@H...

If the rabbits they sell are unvaccinated...are they not at risk by
a)being in such an open enclosure
B)being allowed to be handled by random people
C)p@H policy that dogs are allowed in store?

It's 5am, and this is what I'm thinking about...

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I guess yes!

if pet shops are allowed to sell animals my personal feeling is the animal selling area should be a fenced off area of store with a member of staff perminently in there monitering what public are doing to animals-and no dogs allowed in that area. all animals that can be vaccinated should be vaccinated prior to being put in the area . it should be illegal for pet stores to sell unvaccinated rabbits. I would also like it to go a bit further then that and all microchipable animals to be done prior to sale so that their identity as a vaccinated animal is proven and also where they have come from, age is with them for life. for prefrence a neutering voucher to be included in sale price too plus a booklet on the species of animal sold to go with each pet.

I do know my local p@h now microchip all their rabbits prior to selling them. Maybe they'll get there.


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I have a friend who works there and she tells me they do only microchip. No vaccinations or neutering or anything.

She also says that the rabbits they have are always either 12 weeks or more. I don't know if this is all true but I know that they are not always healthy.

:roll:

I've heard about them now microchipping, however, I'd much rather a vaccinated bun than a microchipped one, and I'm sure everyone else would too!!

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I think it should be a legal requirement to have companion pets neutered like it is in LA, excepting those that cant for medical reasons (I only know this because of that horrible breeder case atm). It would save soooo much space in rescues from accidental litters. And vaccination too. Guess it would be pretty hard to enforce though...unless I guess all pets were micro-chipped and the microchip could like store data that only vets could update and send it to a database...then if your registered micro-chipped pet wasn't vaccinated or neutered you'd get into big trouble, like the car database for tax and insurance etc...

tashp90 said:

I've heard about them now microchipping, however, I'd much rather a vaccinated bun than a microchipped one, and I'm sure everyone else would too!!

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So true.

It's probably more about accountability than for the benefit of the rabbit or the customer. P@H are far better than any other pet shop I've heard of for paying vet bills for any illness that becomes apparent shortly after purchase - perhaps there's a lot of fraud going on? Something like this - buy a rabbit of silimar description of one you already have that needs vet treatment and then present sick rabbit to P@H and claim it's the rabbit purchased from them.

Maybe they are looking at the longer term stats as to whether the rabbits being dumped or turning up at rescues are from them rather than back yard breeders.

The store layouts round here vary a bit. I have a problem when the rabbits etc are penned right inside the door so you can't avoid them. This is poor planning when there is a Companion Care vet at the back of the store and you have no option but to take a dog right past the pens to get to the instore vet / groomer etc.

The pens have improved - they are all open topped glass enclosures (so a solid partition) which are high enough to stop escapees, and to stop anyone reaching in to stroke the animals - so there is less risk of spreading infection as there is no casual contact with the animals. You have to ask to handle them and a staff member has to unlock the pen.

I prefer the pens to be placed to one side of the store so that the animals are not in a direct line to the door. That way you have to make a positive decision to go to them and it is possible to keep dogs and children away. It also means there is better environmental control (no random draughts, flies, etc).

There are often fund raising events involving dog charities at the store entrance. The layout is often such that the dogs are only a couple of feet away from the pens, which must be a source of stress to both parties - not good for the small furries, the dogs, customers trying to get in, or those trying to raise awareness for their cause whilst managing tetchy dogs in tight spaces.

So yes, the position of the animal pens could be better in some stores.

When I worked at PAH the policy was that we would only allow an animal to be handled if a family was serious about wanting to buy one, not just because they wanted a cuddle. It didn't go down well tbh.

I don't agree with the policy that dogs are allowed in store either.

Whilst I agree with the idea of only selling vaccinated rabbits, PAH would have to add the cost of this onto what they currently charge for rabbits. It could then go two ways: either people are encouraged to adopt from rescues OR they are encouraged to adopt from backyard breeders which means bigger demand for them.

ashbunny said:

When I worked at PAH the policy was that we would only allow an animal to be handled if a family was serious about wanting to buy one, not just because they wanted a cuddle. It didn't go down well tbh.

I don't agree with the policy that dogs are allowed in store either.

Whilst I agree with the idea of only selling vaccinated rabbits, PAH would have to add the cost of this onto what they currently charge for rabbits. It could then go two ways: either people are encouraged to adopt from rescues OR they are encouraged to adopt from backyard breeders which means bigger demand for them.

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I agree with this sadly. I think it would push more people into the arms of back yard breeders because a) rescues may never enter their head (until I joined here, I never thought of rescuing and would never have thought you could have gotten rabbits there either) and b) from my personal experience, it's very difficult adopting a bunny from a rescue. I may have just had the worst luck in the world, and it's only the fact my conscience won't allow it now I know the reality that's stopped me browsing the likes of preloved for another rabbit. Someone with less conscience perhaps will have lost out on their preferred rabbit & go straight on there to buy if they thought p@h bunnies were too expensive.

Personally, I think BYB need clamping down upon first before tackling the pet shops. (I know they also supply pet shops so you could say attack the pet shops and then the BYB have to stop, but the demand will shift from the supplier direct & just put the middle man out of business - p@h could better, but they are improving IMO.)


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Sarah1989 said:

I agree with this sadly. I think it would push more people into the arms of back yard breeders because a) rescues may never enter their head (until I joined here, I never thought of rescuing and would never have thought you could have gotten rabbits there either) and b) from my personal experience, it's very difficult adopting a bunny from a rescue. I may have just had the worst luck in the world, and it's only the fact my conscience won't allow it now I know the reality that's stopped me browsing the likes of preloved for another rabbit. Someone with less conscience perhaps will have lost out on their preferred rabbit & go straight on there to buy if they thought p@h bunnies were too expensive.

Personally, I think BYB need clamping down upon first before tackling the pet shops. (I know they also supply pet shops so you could say attack the pet shops and then the BYB have to stop, but the demand will shift from the supplier direct & just put the middle man out of business - p@h could better, but they are improving IMO.)


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I agree.

Many people, for whatever reason, simply won't get the minimum accommodation that the RWAF etc recommends so this rules out rescues, they are more likely to go to a BYB. PAH do have a policy on what accommodation they will allow rabbits to be sold in, however far off the RWAF's recommendations it's better than nothing. Many BYBs don't ask for anything like this.

Let's not forget that many people want baby bunnies, too. Rescues obviously have "oops" litters come in, but from what I've seen these get adopted very quickly, again pushing more people into the grabby hands of a BYB.

Having only spayed and neutered bunnies for sale also pushes up the price - and the age of the rabbits, as many vets won't spay a female until she is 6 months old.


I think generally, the idea of a rabbit being a cheap, easy children's pet is the thing that needs to change -- people just won't spend money on decent accommodation, nor understand why this is necessary, whilst this idea holds. Once this idea is more understood by people, then there will be much less demand for cute bunnies for their little darlings.

ashbunny said:

I agree.
I think generally, the idea of a rabbit being a cheap, easy children's pet is the thing that needs to change -- people just won't spend money on decent accommodation, nor understand why this is necessary, whilst this idea holds. Once this idea is more understood by people, then there will be much less demand for cute bunnies for their little darlings.

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This, exactly.

Whilst I take on board the point that potential owners who cannot afford PAH will turn to BYB's instead, I do wish that PAH would stop selling rabbits. I have not looked at how many PAH stores to guesstimate how many rabbits they may sell but I have no doubt that given their high profile that they have to be the largest contributor to the rabbit population.

They are perfectly aware of the rabbit rescue situation in this country. Wouldn't it be wonderful if they stopped selling rabbits and worked in partnership with rescues. I am sure they would be ways amd means for this to still be lucrative for PAH.

I work for PAH and the rabbit villages are all now glass to avoid people putting their fingers in etc so I don't think there is much risk of the bunnies catching myxi/VHD and I have never heard of any bunnies getting it in store. It is an idea though to have them all vaccinated though. Strangely I was in a small animal meeting yesterday to give my ideas on things I would like changing/available etc and I didn't even think of this! Doh. Despite what people think the rabbits are well over 8 weeks by the time they are put on the shop floor as they have rest time in the back before they are put out and all health checked by a vet.

I can see the arguments for vaccinating and neutering but I must say if I were buying a P@H animal I wouldn't want to buy one already vaccinated/neutered.

I'd want to take the bunny to the vet of my choice for vaccination and health checks. Ditto neutering, I wouldn't want a voucher, I'd want to take it to my vets when I feel it is the right time.