Messy bottom - almost at the end of my tether!

My 3yr old lionhead dwarf x, Arthur, has had pretty constant messy bottom problems since I got her at about 6weeks. I sometimes manage to get a grip on it but never for long and it now seems to be getting worse.
She has really runny poo's after any veg so that's been taken out of her diet but it seems to be happening at random times now and I can't figure what in her diet is causing it. The long fur around her bottom is getting in quite a state now so we're off to the vets next week as I can't keep up.

After having read various posts I think there's a few things I need to do with regard to her diet but I'm worried that these things are going to have an adverse affect on my 1yr old lop, Daisy.


At the moment they get:
50g Excell dwarf and junior pellets morning and night
Unlimited FibaFirst sticks (they don't really eat very many)
a couple of alfalfa mini bales
Unlimited fresh hay, usually dandelion or camomile forage as this makes Arthur eat more
a handful of Woodlands dandelion mix; plantain and clover mix; and blackcurrant leaves and apple sticks each day

I've had to remove ALL fresh veg as this is definitely a problem for Arthur. I've also tried reducing and removing pellets but Arthur lost a visible amount of weight and she's only 1.4kg anyway. She got quite boney.

I'm going to switch to SS pellets but can anyone see anything else I should change? Or anything I should introduce?
I could try only hay for a few days but would this be bad for Daisy?

I really don't know what to do anymore, every time I seem to be getting somewhere we have another 'incident'. Poor bun!

Thanks
Hayley

It sounds as though she is being overfed !! My Rabbits dont get that much in a week !! They all live on mostly hay/grass.

I would cut the pellets right down, or preferably cut them out all together. Maybe just let her have a Fibafirst stick morning and night and dont feed any other type of pellets.

Does she actually eat the hay ? Hay should make up 80-90% of the diet. With all the other foods given I doubt she is eating much hay at all.

If you are CERTAIN she is eating hay then I would cut out everything else for 48 hours. Then add a couple of Fibafirst sticks. Then as long as her excess cecals have resolved the other things such as the alfalfa cubes/forage could be given a couple of times a week. Not at the same time, one or the other.

I would also suggest you get the Vet to check her teeth. If she has not been eating much hay for some time she may have some Dental problems, one symptom of this being a mucky bum.

In my experience dark leafy veg/herbs do not cause Rabbits to have a mucky bum. Too much protein/carbohydrates certainly can.

You do need to be very vigilant re flystrike as if her bum is frequently mucky she is at very high risk.

I agree with Jack's Jane but would also like to say, don't despair my friend had a rabbit with mucky bum problems for 11 years and apart from the nuisance of having to keep cleaning the rabbit and also subjecting it to a high chance of catching flystrike, rabbits seem to survive. I don't know what 50 grams looks like but your rabbit probably needs only a dessertspoon full of pellets per day and quite a few rabbits have had problems with Excel so maybe changing gradually to another brand would help. When the rabbit has eaten his pellets he normally goes on to eating the hay to fill up. You don't mention which veg you feed, Spring Greens is never usually a problem but carrot, parsnip, broccoli and sometimes cabbage can upset a bunny's tummy.

The reason they don't eat many of the FibaFirst sticks is they aren't hungry enough as they are getting far too much food. The food you give them has to be digested twice as a rabbit's digestive system works by extracting as much nutrition as possible from a low protein/carbohydrate intake. So grass/hay is ideal for this to work successfully.

Also fruit is high in sugars which can upset the rabbit's healthy gut bacteria although tiny pieces of apple/pear, maybe banana, should be ok.

Hmmmm, maybe I over-compensated when I took the veg out.
I wanted to make sure there was still good variety in their diet. And she lost so much weight without pellets before.

She does eat hay but has had teeth issues in the past so I'll get the vet to check next week. I also keep a good eye on fly strike, they are indoors and get sprayed regularly.

They are definitely on hay only for the weekend and then we'll see.

Thanks
Hayley

i would definitely cut down the pellets in the first instance and add in lots of meadow hay and timothy hay. then reduce the other things aswell.

bisc suffers from a messy bum aswell and can't have any veg, but we've found his does better with more natural things like meadow and timothy hay, grass, natural forage and fresh herbs. he has profibre being reduced at the minute as they've become too rich for him and this has already made a difference. he only has a teaspoon a day now. i'm thinking of switching him back to oxbow as he never had an issue with these in the past. so they might be a good one to try as they are timothy hay based. :wave:

tonibun said:

You don't mention which veg you feed, Spring Greens is never usually a problem but carrot, parsnip, broccoli and sometimes cabbage can upset a bunny's tummy.

Also fruit is high in sugars which can upset the rabbit's healthy gut bacteria although tiny pieces of apple/pear, maybe banana, should be ok.

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I've had to take out ALL veg and fruit. She got into my cabbage patch the other day, one leaf later and we had a VERY messy afternoon! Woody herbs are ok in small amounts.

Def taking all advice and cutting the pellets, just worried she'll loose weight again.

I think I'd better explain about my friend's rabbit and why she had this problem all her life. Her husband wouldn't change the rabbit's diet and she was getting far too much Muesli. Obviously we don't know if giving less would have worked because they never tried it. I hope you find a solution to your rabbit's problem. Is your other rabbit ok?

I agree with Jane about getting her teeth checked. My bridge bun started to have a mucky bum when he started to get molar spurs. I would also just try and feed hay or grass with hardly any pellets in her diet and see if that makes any difference. Hope she is soon a clean bum bun!

I agree with Jane, it's sounds like she's getting too much high nutrient food

Rabbit's guts are designed to process grass which is high in fibre and low in calories. So it's super efficient at breaking down fibre and extracting every last bit of nutrition it can. When you over feed pellets and alfalfa (both high in protein) it doesn't know what to do with all the spare goodness and you get excess sticky poops.

The fresh foods probably weren't the issue, although some rabbits can be sensitive to them, they are usually high fibre and not the main issue.

I would cut out the alfalfa completely, it's too high in protein/calcium for adults (best just for babies), cut out the pellets for a week or so (providing she eats the hay) and I expect you'll find it much better. Once her guts have settled down you gradually add back in a much more limited amount of pellets and try out fresh foods.

It also a diet that's much better for her teeth so may help with those. I would try weighing her weekly, that way you can top her up if she does loose any rather than preventively feeding her extra all the time.

I'd ask the vet to comment on her weight - it might be she's over and a little weight loss initially is okay. The can also shave her bum for you which makes cleaning much much easier (with a lionhead you won't notice the missing fluff from the top) and getting her teeth checked is a good plan too

Ask the vet to 'groom' the bum area. I've heard they shave the area so the hair is alot less so nothing sticks in it the fur?


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I agree with the others too. I know and have known of sooooo many bunnies who get excess sticky poo on excel pellets, and the junior/dwarf ones are more nutrient rich than the standard ones. I would think the most likely candidates for the problem are the excel pellets coupled with the alfalfa, with too much food being a secondary issue. Personally I would stop the alfalfa straight away and slowly swap off excel (definitely off the junior/dwarf), you might get away with an easy swap without gut upsets onto fibafirst as they're having those already. If you don't want to stick with fibafirst in the longer term, I think something like SS would be better than excel.

I suspect if you cut down/swap pellets and cut out the alfalfa hay, you might find that you're able to reintroduce other veg and forage without a problem - but probably best to get the problem under control first . Good luck x x