Stubborn Bunny Doesn't Want His Pellets, after being ill.

This post comes off the back of this thread:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?418815-Something-Is-Not-Right

Littleblack is still here and perkier in himself. I hit a bump 2 days ago where he tried to get up, and spun in a tight circle and lay down again - just the once. Don't know if I startled him, or something else inside happened. He was quiet again the next day, but the rabbit savvy vet said leave him quiet and see how he goes for 24 hours, but he perked up again after that. I just keep having to tell myself - he's a very old boy now...even if it breaks my heart every time.

Anyway - so now I have a new problem with him - his food.

I have had him on Recovery, and on Critical Care, and have been weaning him off that so I'm not feeding hourly... now its about 3-4 feeds a day....but he does not want to go back to his pellets. I even mixed it in with his Recovery and Critical Care - and omg! The protests and grunts and back kicks of disapproval were in full flow with that genius idea of mine! A full on bunny temper tantrum was had on all occasions that I did that - and by the end, he didn't even want me to touch him because he was so angry after that! Lol. He soon came creeping up to me though, when I ignored him, and simply lay down next to him, and watched TV. I swear he's a kid in a bunny body sometimes! hehehehe

Because of Sludge in his bladder, and previous bladder stone surgery, for the last 4 years I think, he is on Oxbow Essentials: Bunny Basics T - and also Oxbow Organic Meadow hay, and Western Timothy hay, with 0.6ml of Metatone Vitamin supplement every other day, and a sachet mixed with 50mls of water, of Bio Lapis for Rabbits every day....... only now, he simply will not eat the Bunny Basics T pellets. He pees on them as soon as he can, then picks up individual bits that he hasn't peed on, and throws them out of his cage. I have tried stopping him doing that - but then he just sits there growling at them and thumping and huffing, and as soon as I move away - he kicks them all out. It's the same sack that he was eating from fine a couple weeks ago, and it's not been contaminated with anything - and is still in date.

He is actually eating on his own, the hay, and any veg or fruit I give him, but it's not enough to hold his weight.... and this is the problem, because while I would happily give him more fruit and veg, I can't because more than one small bit of anything - even fresh grass pulled from the garden, and he gets diarrhea. I gave him the other day, 2 small leafs of Dandelion, and it set him off. He's always had this problem with veg, just as his old bunny pal, Lightsa, did, who passed away last year from a tumour on his face. I think its from a hideous start in life, where they were fed kitchen scraps (and I dont mean veggie peelings - it was literally anything off the plates, or left over!), and dog biscuits.

So.... does anyone have any advice on what to do now with my Littleblack, diet wise. I will feed him for as long as I have to by syringe - but it would be great to give him something that is safe for him, and that he could nibble at all day, apart from hay.

Any advice?

Thanks in advance

No suitable advice but fingers and bunny paws crossed you manage to find a solution for him..

fee x

:: BUMP ::

Happy Easter everyone!!!!!!!

Littleblack is still being food stubborn.

Still hoping anyone can help - or know where I can go/or call to get help? I can't feed 4 times a day for the rest of our lives...(well of course I will if I have to - he's my guard Bun! lol). He's LOVING the attention....and as suggested by the bunny savvy vet, I left him 2 days, and all he ate was hay, and then nothing, and his weight dropped - so I'm back to feeding again...... any ideas?

What other food is low calcium like Bunny Basics T?

Any ideas what I can do?

Wow, your bunny really, really hates those pellets. I don't know of any low calcium pellets but I enjoyed reading your post - it was funny. I always wanted to try these pellets here-- the ingredients sound good. Maybe you could email them and ask them how much calcium their pellets have. https://www.naturalrabbitfood.com/

Max1 said:

Wow, your bunny really, really hates those pellets. I don't know of any low calcium pellets but I enjoyed reading your post - it was funny. I always wanted to try these pellets here-- the ingredients sound good. Maybe you could email them and ask them how much calcium their pellets have. https://www.naturalrabbitfood.com/

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The Sherwood Forest natural rabbit food is actually pretty high in calcium as it is an alfalfa based pellet. They are also a US company, so not sure they ship to the UK.

The Supreme Vetcare Plus Urinary formula is a low calcium pellet designed for rabbits with urinary tract problems, so may work well for your bun.
http://www.supremepetfoods.com/supreme-products/supreme-veterinary-exclusive-range/

Also since your bun obviously likes the Recovery/CC food, you could try placing it in a dish instead, to see if he will lap it up on his own and save you from having to syringe feed it to him all day.

have you tried making it into a pellet mash? sometimes that being warm tempts them to try it again. :wave:

Jbun said:

The Sherwood Forest natural rabbit food is actually pretty high in calcium as it is an alfalfa based pellet. They are also a US company, so not sure they ship to the UK.

The Supreme Vetcare Plus Urinary formula is a low calcium pellet designed for rabbits with urinary tract problems, so may work well for your bun.
http://www.supremepetfoods.com/supreme-products/supreme-veterinary-exclusive-range/

Also since your bun obviously likes the Recovery/CC food, you could try placing it in a dish instead, to see if he will lap it up on his own and save you from having to syringe feed it to him all day.

Click to expand...

I will take a look at the Supreme food and see how that is.... thanks for that.

I tried the dish thing. He sat in it, and topped it with poos! I spent ages washing his bunny bits free of the stuff! Lol. CC in bowl = Fail..... 3 times. LOL

biscandmatt1 said:

have you tried making it into a pellet mash? sometimes that being warm tempts them to try it again. :wave:

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I thought I was on to something here..... but no.... I am now nursing a bruised and kicked body....mine, not his! How is it possible that an upwards back foot kick, can have just as much power as a normal full, flat footed, back foot thump!?!

The kick was followed by a bunny equivalent of a raspberry blow, and him flicking out and in his tongue, coating us both in pellet mash.... and then was followed up with lots of growls and grunts of disapproval. Tried a few times, even mixed with the CC - but its not staying in. I fell asleep (I'm a bit unwell myself) with him, and woke up with him draped over my shoulder, as I lay slumped on my side, because it took so long in between trying to shove more into him and trying to wipe the spat out remains off my face, chest, and him.

I just want to make utterly clear - this is a stubborn bunny, not a 2 year old toddler having a dinner time tantrum....although, it may as well be, right now! Lol.

Hello! When did your little chap last have a full vet check? I must say that a bunny suddenly refusing pellets after being ill doesn't sound like stubbornness to me, it sounds like there is some kind of ongoing problem and because he can't tell you about it, he's trying to show you. The most common would be a dental issue - when they get a spur or a bad or overgrown tooth, it can make chewing pellets very uncomfortable or even painful, hence they will refuse to eat them. Bunnies can suddenly 'go off' all sorts of foods for a similar reason, as the harness, texture and brittleness of different foods may or may not cause pain depending on what is going on.

In my experience, a rabbit who suddenly goes off one type of food in the way you describe is absolutely not being stubborn, but is indicating that there is some kind of problem which needs resolving.

I really would urge you to take your little one for a really thorough vet check with a bunny savvy vet, as it sounds to me as if there is an ongoing problem which probably caused the first food refusal and acute ill health and is now ticking over slightly more chronically.

All the best x

Santa said:

Hello! When did your little chap last have a full vet check? I must say that a bunny suddenly refusing pellets after being ill doesn't sound like stubbornness to me, it sounds like there is some kind of ongoing problem and because he can't tell you about it, he's trying to show you. The most common would be a dental issue - when they get a spur or a bad or overgrown tooth, it can make chewing pellets very uncomfortable or even painful, hence they will refuse to eat them. Bunnies can suddenly 'go off' all sorts of foods for a similar reason, as the harness, texture and brittleness of different foods may or may not cause pain depending on what is going on.

In my experience, a rabbit who suddenly goes off one type of food in the way you describe is absolutely not being stubborn, but is indicating that there is some kind of problem which needs resolving.

I really would urge you to take your little one for a really thorough vet check with a bunny savvy vet, as it sounds to me as if there is an ongoing problem which probably caused the first food refusal and acute ill health and is now ticking over slightly more chronically.

All the best x

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This was my worry. We have been to 3 different bunny savvy vets, in 2 practices, one of them being the head vet at cj hall, who is apparently one of the best in my area. His teeth are good - no bumps, lumps, spurs of spikes, or breaks to any of his teeth. The last check was last week. He's had his jaw checked, his teeth checked, his neck checked, his ears checked, his spine checked, his tummy checked, his bladder checked, his feet checked, his bloods checked. He's had his body x-rayed, and scanned. Nothing wrong. He's old, with normal aging signs, ie, bit blind, bit deaf, teeth a little worn but nothing unusual, and he's been declared otherwise as healthy now as he will ever be. The only thing that they said was that he had a bit of normal muscle wasteage around his hips, but all his reactions are normal for an old bunny.

When we first put him on the mix - he took about 5 months to transition over, from burgess feed. He hated the food sooo much. Back then, he would kick a lot out and dispute it's presence in his life. Anytime, he's been sick, we've had a battle to get him back on it again - but this time, it's like he's made up his mind. I have tried mixing it with a little CC, but then he won't eat any of it. I've tried mixing it with Recovery, but nope.

The vet tried him on some bread he had - literally a pinch - and he ate fine. We tried him on porridge. Fine. Tried him on a couple balls of the Burgess. Fine.... but can't keep him on that because of the calcium, and to rapidly diet change a bun is never good. He will eat greens fine - but that upsets his tummy. We've tried rubbing the pellets in cranberries (he has a couple every day to help his bladder), and mixing it with some dried veggies from the vet, and he will eat a grain, but then bang loudly and have a growling fit at the rest. The vet has seen this and laughed, took him out - checked him over again. And nothing is wrong. Littleblack simply appears to not to want eat those pellets. Even from a new sack, he won't eat it.

We've tried warming it, crushing it, mashing it, rubbing it with grass, cranberries, chunky carrot shavings, mixing it with other pinches of other veggies, and fruit, hiding it in apples until they get softer, and all the good stuff gets eaten - just not the pellets.

Littleblack and I have eaten bits of fruit and veg together - he at one end, me at the other, then we hit a point near the middle and the rest gets composted so we don't cross over. He will greedily attack food when we do that....so I've even tried biting into the pellets myself (didn't know if the vet was joking on this one or not, when he said it, but gave it a shot anyway) and pretended to eat them in front of him. I have to agree - they don't taste nice! LOL. Littleblack just sniffed my nose, and then hopped away. LOL.

Everyone seems clueless about this one...and Littleblack continues to thrive on the syringe feed.... but he is eating a small amount of this from the bowl now, as of last feed....and then he clambered into my lap and nudged my hand, and lay in the position he lays to be syringe fed. I may try next feed, leaving him with the bowl and seeing if he feeds himself that way.

What odd behavior! Most buns when they go off food go off hay, not pellets. My buns always go crazy for pellets.

I hope you can find an alternative pellet or something

Update:

To all of you who thought Littleblack might still have been ill - there is a chance that you may have been right!

Littleblack - 2 weeks ago, suddenly dropped weight again, and then suddenly had diarrhea badly that started in the space of a couple hours.

I immediately took him back to the Rabbit savvy specialist vet. I was REALLY worried. The vet said that Littleblack was actually in great condition for his age, with level teeth, that only had slight raises, but nothing to worry about there, and ears that were clean and looking good. He asked me about his vision, to which I replied Littleblack is "a little bit blind, and a little bit deaf, but afterall, he is 11yrs old now". The vet smiled, and confirmed his eyes were indeed a little cloudy, but also said that he's still looking great for his age.

The bad parts were, that yes, he had lost weight, his tummy was tender, and we needed to get his runny tummy under control, as soon as possible.

He gave my poor bunny injections to soothe his gut, and an antibiotic, and an opiate painkiller. He sent us home with other medication to start the following morning:

• Diluted Zantac - Gut Protection - twice a day
• Septrin Paediatric - Antibiotic - twice a day
• Meloxidyl - Painkiller - once a day
• Bio-Lapis - Pro-Biotic - on sachet a day
• Oxbrow Critical Care - Supportive Feed - 15mls 4 times a day

He said that as Littleblack had been given Baytril (another Anti-biotic) before, he wanted to try an alternative Antibiotic, that might also help as it deals with a few other bacteria - hence the Septrin.

The Vet also said to buy some of his old food (Burgess Excel) and give a pinch of those pellets into his Bunny Basics T, Pellets, and also to give him a treat (which he hasn't had for years due to Calcium content) like Fenugreek disks, and nettle pillows. He explained that nutritionally they are rubbish junk, but they are crunchy, and have a sweetness to them, and it might encourage Littleblack to keep crunching the usual pellets.

So now he gets a good helping in his bowl of the Bunny Basics T, a pinch of the Burgess Excel Mature, 2 Vitacraft Lofty Nettle pillows broken up, and 2 Fenugreek Disks broken up into as many pieces as I can, and a pinch of Cranberries which are then massaged through the whole lot. It fills a Rabbit Mason pet Bowl to the brim, and he gets that once a day.

The Zantac caused much grunting of disapproval and lip licking, but the banana flavoured Septrin (which smelt like those foam banana sweets - lol) he LOVED! and really went after the syringe when I pulled it away. LOL. And within 2 days, the improvement was obvious.

What was even better, on the 4th day, I awoke to loud crunching, I really thought I was dreaming to be honest! I sat up and saw that Littleblack was eating happily and eagerly on his own......and what was better, was that he was eating the Bunny Basics T too!!!!! Now he spends the main feed eating, and muzzling through it to find, the "good" stuff (the junk stuff), and then the rest of the time, he grazes on the Bunny Basics Pellets! By the end of the day, there are only a few Bunny Basic's T pellets left! I couldn't be more happy!

I also noticed, that he now lies even more stretched out, than he did before. I only noticed it was different, when he did it. It's like he feels so much more comfortable in himself again. It fills me with so much joy to see him like that. His eyes are so bright and sparkly, and it's like he's got younger in himself again. He even brings me stems of Hay from his cage and pushes it into my lap, or if I'm lying down, he brings it right up to my face, and pushes it into my chin, before hopping back to his cage. He hasn't done that for about 6 weeks. He's bought me other stuff, but not his prized hay. He just seems so much happier all round. I love it.

It does, however, also make me feel quite guilty. I know I took him to several vets for help, and none could help, saying it was a behavioural issue - but to think I couldn't help him sooner, meant that he was nearly a month in some level of discomfort, and I should have been A) Noticed, and B) Been able to do something to help my precious boy.

Anyway - we have a few more days of treatment to go, and then we will see how he is. But he is certainly a lot more perkier in himself, and definitely has put on weight again, to the point where my brother made a comment this morning, when Littleblack was head down in the hay eating, that Littleblack now resembled a Full Stop! LOL