Advanced E Cuniculi?

Hi All,

Newbie here but I am at my wits end and needed some bunny lovers support!

My dwarf lionhead Bunny Simba has E Cuniculi. I found him on a friday night two weeks ago with head tilt and loss of balance! I took him straight to the out of hours vet who confirmed it was the parasite. I took him home and syringe fed him and gave him water throughout the night. (The vet gave him panacur, baytril and fluid). The next day I took him back to the vet who gave me baytril and more panacur. I brought him inside so I could keep a close eye on him. A week later there still wasnt much improvement apart from his head tilt wasnt so bad. He wasnt eating solids and would only drink when I offered him some water. The vet gave him some fluid and told me to give him metacam and emiprid once daily for the pain and to stimulate his gut.
He will now eat carrot and kale and small amounts of hay but no pellets. His head tilt is really not as bad and in the last 5 days his balance seems much better. He isnt rolling much at all.

On Saturday I thought it would be a good idea to put him in his run for a stretch and some fresh air. He was in the run for about half an hour. Didnt roll once and even ate some grass. He hopped about and I really thoughtwe were making abit of progress but when I put him back in his hutch he went and sat facing the corner and only moved when I offered him water and syringe food.

I was so worried I took him back to the vet yesterday. The vet told me that he had lost even more weight and was very very dehyrated. But told me to up the dose of metacam to twice a day and keep doing what I am doing. I asked her if he could perhaps have some fluid but she declined. I got the distinct impression that she had no hope for him improving at all so perhaps didnt want me to waste my money!

I just feel so frustrated - I had the conversation with the vet about perhaps putting him to sleep if he is in any pain and if it was the kindest thing to do but like I said she told me to keep going for another week. I thought it worth mentioning that I have seen 4 different vets! am considering going to another vet for another opinion... But I am worried it will just stress Simba out even more!

I appreciate there are alot of posts on here about E Cuniculi so I apologise if this sounds like a broken record but most stories I have read the bunnies all seem to be eating and drinking on their own. I am beginning to wonder if I didnt catch this in time and it is too advanced and it would be kinder for Simba to be put to sleep I really dont want this but it breaks my heart to see him just sitting there in the corner of his hutch staring at the walls. He is such a loving and friendly rabbit. I just wish I could help him more!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

So sorry to hear your bunny is poorly. Where are you? Someone on here may know of a very savvy rabbit vet in your area x

It can take quite a while for buns to recover from an acute attack of EC

May I ask whether he is on DAILY panacur and metacam and whether you are also syringing very liquid feeds so he has enough fluid? The vet should have given recovery feed to syringe.

the three factors are essential in the treatment:

Panacur 'kills' the parasite, (but is daily for at least 28 days), metacam reduces the inflammations in the nerves which EC causes, and fluids mean that the bun does not get dehydrated which makes the nerves etc eaier for the parasite to infest. (as the rabbit is stressed). In fact dehydration alone can trigger an acute attack if the bun has chronic EC.

With these three in combination the rabbit has a good chance of recovery in the long term - it can take 6 weeks or longer of syringe feeding and head rolling -often getting worse before getting better.

You sound as though you need a better vet tbh

PS we have nursed several rabbits through this - the syringe feeding is essential as are all the other meds.

You need to be on a 28 day course of Panacur to treat EC as well as the Metacam as a minimum. This is daily. You may also find you need to help him get to his food and water. I've nursed my soul bunny through one attack of EC and battled through a second attack before I had to have him pts. I lost him because the day before I was out for the whole day and wasn't there to help him with his food and water and so he got dehydrated & hungry and then deteriorated so much the vet couldn't save him the next day. This is something I've just learned from reading this thread although I long suspected it, and I'll never forgive myself. I'd never heard of EC until Dexy got it so don't beat yourself up!

Your bunny sounds to me as though he can recover from this and live a happy life, so please, do not give up until you've tried everything. I will mention that when he recovers from this, you will need to treat him with a 9 day dose of Panacur every three months afterwards as it can reoccur.

I wish you the very best of luck, and please don't feel bad about asking for advice or something explaining again or something like that. EC is a subject very close to my heart for all the wrong reasons. I'd personally rather repeat myself 100 times and save a bunny's life than not because someone was afraid to ask.

I live in Reading Berkshire, I have been on the internet this morning to check out rabbit savvy vets for him.

I am giving him the metacam twice a day and the panacur once a day. I have three of the panacur syringes that the vets have given me. But I will be giving it to him for at least 28 days.

I have oxbox critical care and yes I am mixing it up with more fluid as he has just figured out this morning how to drink from a shallow bowl. He will only take 3ml of syringe food before he gets abit stressed and moves away from me. I know this is not enough hence why he has lost alot of weight. But I really dont want to have to force it down him.

Myself, mum and fiance are all doing shifts every 3 hours or so to feed him and give him water. Its just stressing me out abit now!

Especially as he does spend alot of the time sitting in the corner of his hutch unless we are giving him attention!

Thank you for your kind words and advice xxx

Sounds like you are trying really hard!

EC recovery is a LONG process -

and can go a few steps back now and again before forward again!

The weight loss is a worrying aspect and with problems syringe feeding you may want to find a new vet who might be able to give more advice about that - perhaps even take him in for a few days to give you a rest and do constant fluids and syringe feeds.

try posting a NEW thread asking for excellent rabbit savvy vet in Reading area.

Our latest EC was rolling for 3 weeks and then very slow to recover and had relapses - but is now out and about and fine - though a little bran damaged so occasionally 'away with the fairies' this is also a common side effect of the acute stage which lasts into the chronic period - so he may simply have 'blank' moments for the rest of his life -

he may also needs his eyes looking at as EC can affect the eyes.

parsnipbun said:

Sounds like you are trying really hard!

EC recovery is a LONG process -

and can go a few steps back now and again before forward again!

The weight loss is a worrying aspect and with problems syringe feeding you may want to find a new vet who might be able to give more advice about that - perhaps even take him in for a few days to give you a rest and do constant fluids and syringe feeds.

try posting a NEW thread asking for excellent rabbit savvy vet in Reading area.

Our latest EC was rolling for 3 weeks and then very slow to recover and had relapses - but is now out and about and fine - though a little bran damaged so occasionally 'away with the fairies' this is also a common side effect of the acute stage which lasts into the chronic period - so he may simply have 'blank' moments for the rest of his life -

he may also needs his eyes looking at as EC can affect the eyes.

Click to expand...

I agree with all of this.

It's really hard nursing an EC bunny, emotionally draining, roller coaster ride. I nursed Dexy alone whilst juggling a full time job & as I used to breed snakes and it was summer & they all hatched the same week .... I also had about 75 snakes to care for as well!


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This is great advice thank you - its so nice to speak to people who understand how I feel!

I will definitely post a new thread for vets in Berkshire. I am worried about getting another opinion and it stressing Simba out but I dont want to lose him!

Are there any other foods I could try that might entice him?

One of the vets I went to see said to give him broccoli and cabbage but I did research on this when I got home and they give rabbits gas!? why would a vet tell me to feed a bunny who isnt eating something that might make it worse!

Could there be another reason why he sits in the corner. I read that this is to do with depression and pain but he seems fine when I get him out and give him attention. he licks my hand when I give him a little back massage.

I'm rather hoping he is away with the fairies like you say!

xxx

I agree with most of the advice you have been given on here.

I have had an EC / Had tily bun in the past, my wee Kermit. His head tilt was realy bad and he couldn't even stand to begin with. He would uncontrollably roll any time he tried to stand up.

It honestly took him months to recover, and even then he was left with a pretty severe head tilt. It can take so long and you will question yourself loads, but if bunny is still eating and drinking, peeing and pooing then they have spirit in them and are trying to fight this. As said before, can often be one step forwards and 10 back, but when you have a good day and you see a wee bit of improvement it really is fab .

How bad is the tilt? Is it preventing him from walking? Kermit used to get spaced out and roll alot if I tried to lift him as he got really disorientated. When lifting try to keep bun in the same standing position, so when you put them down they ont feel dizzy.

Have you tried fresh herbs for eating? Basil, coriander, parsley, mint, dill, sage are all great for bunnies. Spring greens are also good. I feed my two Savoy Cabbage and Broccolli and the are fine with it.

Good luck with your wee one x

Sitting hunched up can be a sign of pain. How much metacam is he getting? It could also be depression, he will most likely be feeling sad and frustrated, as well as confused.

Is he still inside with you? Obviously it is quite important to make sure he is kept warm.

You sound as though you are doing everything right, but I would want another opinion from a good vet, even if it's just so they can give him some fluids and admit him for a little while to give you a break.

Have you tried offering fresh forage and herbs? Bramble leaves are good for tums, so might benefit him. Other plants have medicinal properties too, that may help. Always introduce things slowly, though.

Sending lots of vibes. x

The tilt isnt that bad - the night I found him he was literally bent in half and his head was pretty much looking behind him. He now has a slight head tilt and he can hop around. The head tilt doesnt seem to be affecting his ability to walk/hop around. Having said that sometimes when you stroke him and go to give him his meds he flops over to the side with his mouth in full view which is perfect for feeding etc (although I am worried about him choking!) I am very careful with him though.

He is still washing his face which I think is a good sign too! Still flicks his paws and licks them and then washes his face.

Its why I am so confused by his progress since I know when I am ill the last thing I think about is washing my face!

xxx

I have no advice regarding EC as thankfully my rabbit hasn't suffered that but hoping you find a savvy vet. Metacam works a lot better in two doses rather than one as by the time 24 hours is up the metacam is out of the body so the rabbit will be in pain. I've sometimes had to give Doughnut three lots in a day to make sure she is pain free, this was advised by a specialist but twice a day is always recommended.

I hope your rabbit makes a full recovery and you get the see a great vet, good luck.

Grooming themselves can be a stress response, too. It is used as a way to comfort themselves, too. It is a good sign he is washing himself, at least he can balance himself. :thumb:

He is improving, and this is good, but it is going to take a while for him to get back to normal. When a rabbit is in pain or feeling poorly, they tend to go off their food. If I were you, I would also have his teeth checked, if he isn't eating properly, then his teeth may get overgrown, and this will put him off his food even more!

I only have a brief dealing with E.C, and it didn't have a happy ending because the vets had no idea what they were doing.

It sounds like you are doing an excellent job. Just keep going. It will get easier and you are making progress. EC is a horrible condition and will take time to recover from. We are still working with our bunny who had EC over christmas. We have been through everything you describe. Once she started eating and drinking by herself - even if it was mush on a saucer, she started gaining weight again - but now seems to be losing a bit. She still sits facing a corner a lot more than she used to.

We found that she likes bananas, apple, broccoli, dandelions, carrot (tops and root) and most fresh greens. She also gets an extra feed of junior pellets to help her gain weight. Hay was the last thing she started eating properly again. A heat pad (snugglesafe) also helped.

I asked the vet to check his teeth yesterday as I was worried he may not be able to eat properly having not had as much Hay over the last two weeks.

The vet said his teeth were fine and not causing any problems.

x

Sorry you are having a difficult time with your bunny. I am going through exactly the same situation with my bunny marbles at the moment, we are 3 1/2 weeks in and she is still unwell so it is a long road to recovery. Sometimes it can be a step forward and a few steps back. Last week I took her to a rabbit specialist vet who I had been reluctant to go to previously because it was almost an hour drive from me. I would just say that the piece of mind I got from knowing I could 100% trust what he was saying was such a relief.

Also just to give an alternative spin on this - head tilt can also be caused by bacterial infection (that is what the baytril you've been given is for), so she may not have EC at all. I think the only way to confirm the presence of EC is with a blood test but many rabbits can be carriers anyway.

The most important thing is to keep her eating and drinking, which is sounds like you are trying very hard with! Marbles has been completely unable to use her water bottle but now quite comfortably drinks from a bowl. The appetite took a good 2-3 weeks to get back to normal but she's eating well now. I think it's just a case of keeping them sustained with enough fluids and food until they start to improve and want to eat for themselves. Herbs are normally pretty tempting for a poorly bun in case you haven't tried that!

Hang in there, it sounds like you're doing everything you can and fingers crossed that your bunny will make a full recovery. Many rabbits can live a perfectly happy life with permanent head tilt. I would advise finding a 'proper' rabbit vet though, I promise it makes all the difference x

I just wanted to say thank you to every one that has responded, you don't know how much better I feel today! Just had a call with my fiance who has told me that he has had another two syringes of food, some hay and water from a bowl!

The bowl thing seems to be the way forward - I was wary of using it before since Simba was rolling and flipping quite alot but now he seems to be able to control this abit more I am comfortable leaving the shallow bowl with some water in for him.

I will make an appointment for him to see a rabbit savvy vet near me so I can get piece of mind once and for all.

I shall keep you posted xxx

:wave:

So Simba now seems quite comfortable drinking from the bowl - water was nearly all gone when I went down to see him this morning! I gave him small amounts of parsley and coriander as well which he has gobbled down!

Even managed a little hop from him this morning.

I did leave him with another amount of parsely,coriander and kale before I went to work. I'm hoping it wont upset his tummy too much as I havent given him herbs before.

Will try and post some pics of him soon

I wouldn' give too much Kale, but basically at the moment as long as he is eating it is all good!

Herbs are fine, they don't generally cause any issues.

Have you tried the dried dandelion / plantain etc? You can get it at PAH and it usually goes down well.

I didnt leave him much kale but i had the same thought as you. At this stage as long as he is eating

I am going to pets at home on my lunch break to get one of those heated pads so will check out the dried dandelion

Thank you :thumb: xx