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View Full Version : Been severely let down and now Poppy is in danger (U/D 16.30)



Whitelighter
08-01-2014, 01:55 PM
So we had to go away for three days over the Christmas break.

My parents are lovely but not really animal people so I didn't feel that they'd spend more than the absolute minimal time with Poppy outside of feeding her and wouldn't have her at their house. I also didn't think they'd pick up on any illness signs etc. they have the 'it's just a rabbit' view point.

We know (distantly) a couple if other rabbit owners and one said she'd look after Poppy and Smokey while we were away. Great thinks I.

How wrong can I be.

Poppy gas been a bit odd the last week. She's not as friendly as she used to be, she's been digging everywhere, through info hay around in her hutch etc. well now I know why. The rabbit sitter says it was her niece, but Poppy was allowed to mix with their bucks as 'she looked lonely'!!!!


And I told them explicitly she wasn't spayed!

So now I think my little girl is pregnant. Obviously if she is it was over the three days she was away, I've tried palpating but can't feel anything. At 4 1/2 will she be able to deliver any kits? The vet didn't want to spay until 6 months but do I go for an emergency spay?

I'm so totally ****** off I can't even speak to the person who had her. And what worse is I feel like my lovely friendly rabbit isn't my best snuggly floppy strokes girl anymore.

luna
08-01-2014, 02:01 PM
I'm so sorry this has happened.I can completely understand how angry you must be.

My girl Rosie was spayed at 4 months with no ill effects and my vet is very rabbit savvy. I know some vets like to wait till they are six months especially when they are a larger breed because they take longer to develop but she is very young to be having a litter of babies. She is only a baby herself :(

Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Tapatalk 2

Jack's-Jane
08-01-2014, 02:01 PM
Whilst pregnancy is a possibility her behaviour may be simply that she has reached puberty. So hormonal yes, but not pregnancy hormonal.

Your Vet could do an U/S which may detect a pregnancy, if there is one. It is now almost 14 days since Christmas, so if conception did occur it is really too late for a spay. She would almost certainly have to progress with the pregnancy.

It is not impossible for a Doe to conceive at 4 months, but in the last 17 years I have never known of it to happen

AnnieElms
08-01-2014, 02:01 PM
:shock: was this a professional pet sitter?

I would definitely call your vet and explain the situation. It's usual to wait for 6 months but some vets will spay sooner.

marleysworld
08-01-2014, 02:02 PM
I only really know about mini lops. It is best to wait until the female is 6 months old before letting her have a litter but I have heard of does having safe litters at 5 months.
Sorry can't be much help as I don't have any experience of emergency spays either.

silverrabbit
08-01-2014, 02:04 PM
I may be wrong but I think an emergency spay has to be done in the first 10 days of pregnancy, so may be too late :(

It is possible for her to safely deliver but she may not look after them.. A first litter is hit and miss from what I had read, and at that age she may just not be ready :(

Whitelighter
08-01-2014, 02:06 PM
:shock: was this a professional pet sitter?

I would definitely call your vet and explain the situation. It's usual to wait for 6 months but some vets will spay sooner.

No, not a professional ( lesson learnt there) but someone who is rabbit savvy (or so I thought) she keeps her pair in a shed/run set up with loads of toys, hay diet etcetera - everything a good bunny mummy should provide I felt Poppy would be safe.

We were away from 27th till the 30th, so IF she conceived during that time it's 10-12 days. Is that still too late?

Any idea what an ultrasound might cost?

Ailstar
08-01-2014, 02:08 PM
Daisy my mini lop was spayed at just over 4 months and was absolutely fine. But obviously for the reasons already stated if poppy is actually pregnant just won't be possible now. But I see no reason why you can't take her to the vet explain the situation and if she isn't pregnant get her spayed as soon as possible.

Whitelighter
08-01-2014, 02:08 PM
I may be wrong but I think an emergency spay has to be done in the first 10 days of pregnancy, so may be too late :(

It is possible for her to safely deliver but she may not look after them.. A first litter is hit and miss from what I had read, and at that age she may just not be ready :(

Thanks Jane.

I'm not worried about the kits (does that sound horrid - I suppose it must) but I am worried about complications with Poppy being so young.

It does sound like we'd be too late for an emergency spay.

cpayne
08-01-2014, 02:12 PM
I would call up your vets if he is rabbit savvy and get her checked over and see what they think. They could then tell you the cost of an ultrasound if they feel it necessary.

Hopefully she will return to her normal self once whatever it is is sorted. I remember Doughnut intently digging making a nest when she needed spaying. I can't remember her behaviour changing that much but every rabbit is different. Doughnut was spayed at 6 months but they do spay at 4 months but she was too little so she had to wait as they like them to get to a certain weight.

Poor little Poppy.

Jack's-Jane
08-01-2014, 02:13 PM
No, not a professional ( lesson learnt there) but someone who is rabbit savvy (or so I thought) she keeps her pair in a shed/run set up with loads of toys, hay diet etcetera - everything a good bunny mummy should provide I felt Poppy would be safe.

We were away from 27th till the 30th, so IF she conceived during that time it's 10-12 days. Is that still too late?

Any idea what an ultrasound might cost?

Vets all set their own fees so you would need to ask your own Vet for a quote.

Whitelighter
08-01-2014, 02:15 PM
I would call up your vets if he is rabbit savvy and get her checked over and see what they think. They could then tell you the cost of an ultrasound if they feel it necessary.

Hopefully she will return to her normal self once whatever it is is sorted. I remember Doughnut intently digging making a nest when she needed spaying. I can't remember her behaviour changing that much but every rabbit is different.

Poor little Poppy.

Poppy has been completely different for about a week.

Still tolerated nose rubs but not for long, doesn't flop near be, digs (or tries) everywhere. She is acting exactly as her mum Rosie did when pregnant, but until today I ruled that out as we've kept her away from intact boys.

Going to the vets at 4.15 - I guess she either is or isn't and time will tell

cpayne
08-01-2014, 02:37 PM
Let us know how she gets on.

The digging can be that she needs spaying so fingers crossed that's what it is.

Whitelighter
08-01-2014, 05:03 PM
Back from the vet with a freshly shaved bunny and the answer is....

Inconclusive.

Poppy is one hairy bunny and rabbits are hard to scan anyway apparently but the vet could feel some small lumps and also there was nothing conclusive on the scan there were some suspicious black holes.

Short story is we think with about 70% certainty she is pregnant. My poor little girl.
The good news (if that's what it is) is that the vet thinks she will have no problem carrying and delivering them as she is fit, healthy and quite a big rabbit (2.3kg). I have friends who lost their rabbit just before Christmas who want a pair to replace Buster so I could find homes for a couple. As for the rest, I am assuming about 4-6 in total, (only based on the fact Poppy came from a litter of 4 and daddy came from a litter of just 2 - I am aware it could be 8 or 9 mind) I guess it would solve the companion problem for Poppy and then some :(

At least I've had a pregnant rabbit before so at least I know what to expect and what Poppy will need. We did discuss a spay but the later it goes the riskier it gets and if there is little danger in letting her carry and deliver then that is what I am minded to do

Ailstar
08-01-2014, 05:24 PM
You might end up with less, I think first time mothers can sometimes lose a few of their kits so even if she does have 4-6 to begin with it might not be that many in the end.

Whitelighter
08-01-2014, 05:32 PM
You might end up with less, I think first time mothers can sometimes lose a few of their kits so even if she does have 4-6 to begin with it might not be that many in the end.

Thanks.

My last charge (Rosie) was a first time mum and had 4. She was a really good mummy though and did everything right, bless her.

She was a lot older than Poppy though conceiving at 11 months old

RedSwiftie13
08-01-2014, 05:55 PM
Wow I can't believe your petsitter would do that, at least without asking you first! :shock:

I hope everything goes ok for Poppy! Sending vibes

Sarah1989
08-01-2014, 06:01 PM
Oh dear, poor Poppy. Fingers crossed she is either not pregnant, or if she is, that she has an easy pregnancy and birth and is a good mummy to the little kits. I wouldn't speak to that couple again if it were me, I can't believe they did that! :evil:

Aly&Poppy<3
08-01-2014, 06:04 PM
Wow I can't believe your petsitter would do that, at least without asking you first! :shock:

I hope everything goes ok for Poppy! Sending vibes

Even if they did ask they might not know about the genetics, the size of the rabbit may have been too much of a difference so the kits would be too big or something etc etc.

I can't believe that has happened, I'm fuming for you! I'd have gone ape ****! Will she be paying for some of the vaccinations, spays/castrations of the kits if she is pregnant?

Whitelighter
08-01-2014, 06:32 PM
Thanks everyone.

Well I guess in about 20 days we'll find out for sure.

At least if it is the worst then they'll be some baby bunny pics for you to squeeeee over.

No, I'll have to carry the can on vacs and ops. Fortunately we both have very good jobs so actually the cost isn't the issues as much as the risk to my poor little pops.

She's currently sulking at the back of her puppy cage licking her bald tummy. She even turned her back on my offer if banana just now :(

biscandmatt1
08-01-2014, 06:33 PM
poor poppy. can't believe this happened. :( you must be so angry

Aly&Poppy<3
08-01-2014, 06:35 PM
I hope she's not pregnant :( and that that 30% chance comes through!

Whitelighter
08-01-2014, 06:42 PM
poor poppy. can't believe this happened. :( you must be so angry

If I typed what a I said over the phone earlier you'd basically just get

**** **** **** **** **** ****

Clare-uk
08-01-2014, 07:14 PM
Don't blame you for that phone call! Can't believe the sitter was that stupid, hugs for Poppy x

Hc1
08-01-2014, 09:34 PM
Poor Poppy - cant believe a pet sitter would do that :evil::evil: If its any comfort I had 2 girls that dug their way out of the garden when we first got them (they were around the same age as Poppy and vet didn't want to spay till 6 months). We have wildies near us and I was frantic, thinking I might have 2 lots of babies. Anyway, one of them was completely normal, the other had what turned out to be an extremely convincing false pregnancy, swollen nipples/fur pulling and she built the most amazing nest but never produced any babies.:D They were both spayed as soon as they got to 6 months :lol: I do hope Poppy isn't pregnant too but good luck whatever happens

Bunny Buddy
08-01-2014, 09:50 PM
So sorry you are facing this.

Tinks (in my signature, now nearly 6 years) was taken into RSPCA care at an estimated 16 weeks old (could have been a few weeks either side) from a hutch she shared with her father and other family members. The same dilemma was had there as to whether to do an emergency spay or let her continue with any possible pregnancy. The vets said a spay was a greater risk to her. Tink had 2 babies and her sister Tilly (now Phoebe) had 3 babes about 10 days later. Despite being so young Tinks was an excellent mother. *touches wood* she hasn't had any health problems bar very bad sneezing for a month or so when she was approximately one year old. She was also in pretty poor physical condition whilst pregnant as they had had to fight for food before the RSPCA took over their care.

It's not the best start for Poppy if she does turn out to be pregnant but at least she's has carers who will do their best for her.

I don't know if I'm missed the info but do you know what breed and especially size of the potential father? I'm thinking re the possibility of big kits being an issue.

mokwa32
08-01-2014, 10:01 PM
So sorry to hear about Poppy, I hope she is going to be ok, fingers crossed she is not pregnant and if she is I hope she stays safe though out and after :(

Whitelighter
08-01-2014, 10:05 PM
Father (one of two :() is a bit bigger, but both bucks are over a year old. They are about the same size as Poppy's mum was fully grown and to be honest not too much bigger than pops.

To compound my awful day Poppy is now showing signs of being scared of me. She's backing away, hiding from me and running away. She has tolerated a couple if nose runs but I've had to corner her to get them and she looks more like she's tolerating it than enjoying it.

I feel like I've lost my bunny - it's just a very rubbish rabbit day. What's worse is I don't know how to rebuild a bond because I had Poppy from birth so I don't know how or if I can. She us now sitting in the middle if her pen. She used to come to the rail for nose runs and treats. Now when I go over she hides away.

tulsi
08-01-2014, 10:14 PM
I am sure with a bit of time and patience you will be able to rebuild your bond with Poppy. They live in the moment. She is probably just hormonal and once she gives birth/gets spayed and her hormones settle all will be well again.

As to the idiots who thought that she looked lonely ... unbelievable.
Are their bucks that live together entire?

Whitelighter
08-01-2014, 10:18 PM
Yes the bucks are intact

silverrabbit
08-01-2014, 10:24 PM
TBH this is probably normal behaviour for a pregnant doe... she will be stressed from the vet visit so some time alone and being calm is what she needs. Let her approach you when she's ready, approaching her as she gets more hormonal will likely make her worse and pregnant does can lunge and get aggressive. If she has a crate as a base i'd cover it over with a blanket so she has somewhere to retreat of she feels stressed

Whitelighter
08-01-2014, 10:28 PM
I'd love to let her free range out if the pen, but when I do she digs the carpet so I end up chasing her off where she's digging :(

I think I'm going to have to just sit back until she either has kits or we get her spayed.

Once buns have the kits do the hormones die down a bit straight away or do they stay frosty during the nursing period?

silverrabbit
08-01-2014, 10:35 PM
Well as long as part of it is enclosed so she has some privacy :)

With Ivy, she was really nervy and bad tempered (I got her when she was 2 weeks pregnant) but she settled a lot after giving birth and soon accepted nose rubs and allowed me to check the nest for any dead kits. They are now 4.5 weeks old and Ivy is amazing and will happily sit and get stroked, so it will get better :)

Babsie
08-01-2014, 11:48 PM
Yes the bucks are intact

.... and these people supposed to be rabbit-savvy?

Babsie
08-01-2014, 11:51 PM
I'm a bit confused, anyway, as I thought you were going to have Poppy spayed a while ago?

Whitelighter
09-01-2014, 06:13 AM
I'm a bit confused, anyway, as I thought you were going to have Poppy spayed a while ago?

She's only just over 4 months.

My vet said that she should be 6 months to spay.

What are you confused about?

Whitelighter
09-01-2014, 06:14 AM
.... and these people supposed to be rabbit-savvy?

So I thought too...

Babsie
09-01-2014, 08:24 AM
She's only just over 4 months.

My vet said that she should be 6 months to spay.

What are you confused about?

That she was in a position to become pregnant, as I thought she had been spayed.

Whitelighter
09-01-2014, 08:30 AM
She's only just over 4 months.

My vet said that she should be 6 months to spay.

What are you confused about?

That she was in a position to become pregnant, as I thought she had been spayed.

Ah I see.

No, took the vets advice and was going to get her done at 6 months.

As you probably remember I was initially unsure about spaying but thanks to the advice on here I decided it was In Poppy's best interest despite the small amount if risk, but as part if my thought process I discussed it with my vet and agreed that at 6 months she'd be a good size and able to (hopefully) comfortably get through the op.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I wish we'd just stayed at home.

Rabcat
09-01-2014, 09:22 AM
My girls were all spayed after they reached 6 months so I agree with you on that one. I didn't want to risk an operation on them when they were younger anyway.

I cant believe how the sitter could have done something so irresponsible and stupid!!

I hope it all goes well for Poppy and you xx