Dental/gut stasis

Cookie is approx five and a lionhead mini lop. Up until a year ago he had been eating find and everything was as it should be.

Shortly after Christmas two years ago he had his first refusal to eat anything - took him to the vets, got his medicines and gave him some critical care and he was back to normal within 48 hours. We changed his diet from Wagg to Burgess Excel and carried on as usual.

Over the course of this year I have noticed he's not been eating his caecotrophs - we removed cabbage as that seemed to be the worst culprit, carrots completely, really cut back on his pellets and spent a fortune trying to encourage him to eat more hay. (also started him on some profibre pellets).

Around three months ago he had his second refusal to eat - off to the emergency vet who said he thought it was dental and gave him the medication and us some critical care and told us to see the regular vet. Within an hour or two of coming home he was eating normally so I left his vet appt until the end of the week where he was having his vaccine anyway. That vet said his teeth really didn't look that bad and wanted to see him again in eight weeks to see if there were any changes. We took him back a few weeks ago, yes the teeth are going to need doing but it's months away rather than imminent so I was going to do it after Christmas.

Sunday - he stopped eating and completely wet himself. He is a litter trained house bunny so this was a huge concern. Off to the emergency vet - she didn't think it was his teeth and concurred with my regular vet. She tried to check blood glucose but he didn't want to let a single drop of blood go so she couldn't. Had his medication and off we went with critical care again. I left him for an hour or two hoping that his gut would be moving again and that he would tuck into his food but he wasn't having any of it. It's a real battle to syringe feed him but we managed to get some down, he managed a little hay and celery and some water so we were hopeful he would pick up.

Monday morning he hadn't moved where we had left him and seemed to be making a moaning noise. Off to the vets and this one said both sides of his tongue looked sore and she thought it was probably his back teeth. So they admitted him, gave him an anaesthetic and sorted his teeth. Last night they asked me to take some fresh veg in as he still wasn't eating - so I took some celery and parsley and he started tucking into the parsley so again we were hopeful. The nurse said that his teeth weren't as bad as they had though and certainly not severe enough to cause him to stop eating.

This morning I got another phone call - he wasn't eating still so could I take everything he eats down. So I went, and walked in and he was chomping on parsley again. Put a load of hay in and some science selective which I've been trying to wean him onto for the past few months very slowly. Got a phone call a few hours later - still not eating but vet thinks he should go home to his normal environment and hopefully that will help.

So he's home again - nibbled a bit of parsley, a little bit of hay and had some water but still no interest in anything else, back to the corner he lurks in when he doesn't want to eat. I'm going to battle with him soon to try and get some more critical care down him and we have some zantac to give him later - as far as I know, he hasn't been to the toilet since he wet himself on Sunday afternoon. He has been grinding his teeth loudly a few times which he wasn't on Sunday.

Any ideas what this could be because the vets honestly don't seem to have a clue (we're having to use PDSA as I lost my job a few months back)
Any suggestions to try and get him eating.

To me it is puzzling that he prefers parsley and hay (even though it is tiny amounts) as from what i've read, they usually refuse these when it is dental pain/problems. My first thought when he wet himself was maybe a UTI/kidney issue?

Any help appreciated.

I had a dental bunny and sometimes he would not eat properly for a couple of days (5 days at one point!). I would usually get lots of fresh herbs in the pots from the supermarket and try to tempt him. I would also try carrot tops (you can get them on the carrots at Sainsbury), kale, grated carrot. I find that thyme is quite good to tempt mine, also basil and coriander.

Has your bunny had pain relief as this is most important. If his tongue was saw it is likely that his teeth were rubbing it and the vet may also have given some abx to help heal this.

I hope he starts to eat soon.

bunny babe said:

I had a dental bunny and sometimes he would not eat properly for a couple of days (5 days at one point!). I would usually get lots of fresh herbs in the pots from the supermarket and try to tempt him. I would also try carrot tops (you can get them on the carrots at Sainsbury), kale, grated carrot. I find that thyme is quite good to tempt mine, also basil and coriander.

Has your bunny had pain relief as this is most important. If his tongue was saw it is likely that his teeth were rubbing it and the vet may also have given some abx to help heal this.

I hope he starts to eat soon.

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Thanks.

He has been given lots of pain meds actually looking at the receipt and antibiotics.

He is grooming himself pretty well, you wouldn't think he was poorly. Will try and get lots of yummies for him tomorrow, vet wants to see him back if he hasn't started eating properly in the morning. I think i'm just concerned that there is a different reason than dental for all this and that is still ongoing.

Sorry you're having a difficult time this sounds very stressful. I'm not sure I can offer much advice but will bump the thread at least!

Your bun sounds quite similar to my marbles, she has bouts of not eating much where she has a dental but the vet doesn't think that's the sole cause as teeth not that bad. I recently realised that she might be depressed (she lives alone) and after making some changes so she is in close proximity to my other bun, her appetite has improved loads and she seems so much happier. There are probably much simpler explanations but do you think cookie could be lonely or unhappy?

The weeing himself is odd though, I'm afraid I don't know much about UTIs in rabbits (know plenty about human UTIs!). I really hope someone can offer you some good advice soon.

It could indeed be depression/loneliness.

He does live on his own with me - when I got him I had ME and was housebound. He was an unwanted stud rabbit so I took him on and got him neutered and he settled in really well. The past few months I have been going out more and spending nights away but I've always tried to make sure he isn't alone more than 24 hours and someone feeds him in the morning and checks on him. He has lots of cuddly toys he snuggles up to but that probably isn't enough.

The problem is going to be introducing another rabbit - I live in a flat so I can't have another hutch or keep one separate and I would need to get it spayed or neutered. Introducing one slowly and ensuring Cookie takes to it is going to be near impossible which is why I haven't so far. I have felt guilty about him being on his own - I also had a hamster when I got him and he used to go and sit in front of her cage sometimes.

I know it isn't fair on him and I might have to make the difficult decision of rehoming him to ensure that his needs are met properly although that really would break my heart.

You could always try rehoming a rescue bun whos already spayed & often they know bonds don't always work and accept you may need to 'try' a few buns.

Hope he starts eating again, vibes x

Thanks.

Not sure that a rescue will allow me to adopt as I don't have a garden - I use my parents round the corner in good weather but most of the time Cookie is indoors. Going to have to have a good long think about possible solutions.

Aw what a difficult situation, I have a lot of guilt about marbles as I know really she needs a friend but it just isn't possible at the moment. Here is my original thread, I'm not sure if it'll help you but I did get some useful suggestions:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...sed-rabbit-UPDATE-post-20&highlight=depressed

Rescues shouldn't rule you out just because you don't have a garden. There are often buns on here to be rehomed that say 'would prefer to be homed as a house rabbit'. It just depends how much space you have though? I know it's so difficult.

Has he improved at all since yesterday?

He has improved slightly. Last night he went in his litter tray and managed to do some poo - there was some fur in there.

This morning we took him back to the vet - two more painkiller injections and metoclopamide. He has eaten half a stalk of celery over the day and nibbled at his bowl of food but he would only take a few sips of water when I lifted the bowl up to his mouth. I've syringe fed him some pineapple juice on suggestion from the vet and some more zantac and will give him some more critical care - he really gets stressed and battles the syringe though so I'm trying to avoid using that where possible - he is having a little something every thirty minutes or so. It's the lack of water that is bothering me more than anything especially as he doesn't seem to have done a wee since Sunday.

I'm going to go to my local RSPCA when im next in that direction and see what their policy is about rehoming rabbits - I know they struggle to rehome their animals plus it would give me a chance for some rabbit dating and bonding hopefully as I don't really have the space to do that here.

I was going to suggest the pineapple juice, especially if the slowdown is due to hair (pinepapple is supposed to have an enzyme in it that breaks down hair - but nothing proven). Pineapple is also an appetitite stimulant too I think.

yeah, he turns his nose up at it so I'm having to syringe it, he's had about 1.5ml so far, the vet said just small amounts today.

He's had some more water but again I had to lift the bowl up for him and he did give a little moan so it was painful for him to drink - sore tongue? He's also had another go at some celery but again found it easier with me holding it for him. I honestly have no idea what's going on - if teeth weren't that bad and were filed slightly on Monday I'm surprised that it's still affecting him now and he's preferring hay over pellets ... confused much!

:? Very strange with the water and finding it difficult. I can't suggest anything.

I always get a fresh pineapple (yellow if possible so more juicy), cut a piece and squeeze it. I then syringe it. He may start to get a taste for it.

Did you manage to get any other herbs to tempt him? Also if you can get hold of any blackberry leaves (not sure you will find any now) they are good for them and again one of the things one of my girls ate first before other stuff.

I haven't really been able to get out and about too much as I live on my own. He was eating parsley on Monday but he has gone off that now. Celery and a few nibbles of hay is all he is interested in - i've got tons of other things he usually loves - he seems interested but unable if that makes sense.

Sometimes they eat things they don't normally eat before they start to eat their favourites (that has been my experience). At least he is eating hay.

Have you tried to soak his pellets in some warm water for him (mine have never liked this but I know some people have success with it)

Did the vet check inside his mouth again to make sure it looked OK. Strange that he is interested but unable and I am just wondering if his mouth is still hurting, maybe a missed spur or something.

They haven't checked again but they said they were certain that dental wasn't the actual cause as when they got to his teeth they were nowhere near as bad as the vet had thought but they did have a good look the first vet on Sunday didn't think it was dental either. Someone on the RWAF on facebook has said it could be thrush making the tongue sore so I'm hoping the gut medication and pineapple will help with that - he refuses yoghurt too and I really don't want to stress him out more with syringe after syringe of stuff.

Back to the vet tomorrow - see what they say.

Poor thing, it definitely sounds like something is hurting him doesn't it. Have the vets given you painkillers to give him every day rather than just a one off injection?

No they haven't - he had painkillers on Sunday (24 hour one), then he was admitted on Monday morning and they gave him a fair few actually. He came home yesterday afternoon and we took him back this morning and they gave him two painkillers - so he should have had painkiller in his system non-stop really. Going back tomorrow so I don't know whether they will give him another two long acting pain killers or want to admit him back in, I assume they will want to keep him with me.

I'm just really concerned that he hasn't done a wee since Sunday (and no poo since 2am this morning) - if he didn't have a uti/bladder infection he's going to get one unless his system starts to clear.

Just found this link on an old thread. It has basic teeth issues and I was wondering if possibly he had a spur that had cut his tongue or cheek slightly as this would make it uncomfortable to eat. Even a small spur can do this and depending on a rabbit even the smallest spur can cause issues wheras it may not in others.

http://www.boingonline.com/dental_problems.html

When you say he has had 2 painkiller injections - what are they?

I would ask for some abx in case there is a cut in his mouth. Abx could also help with any potential bladder infection.

Metacam will also help to take down inflammation and relieve pain (I guess this is what one of the injections is). You could ask them for some metacam for you to bring home to give him orally the next time he is due some if he is still not eating of his own accord.

Good luck and I hope he starts to eat/poop an wee soon.

You have had lots of good suggestions above. With my dental bunnies, I would try:

- daily pain relief is essential until they are eating properly (could be a couple of weeks) eg oral metacam
- fresh grass, bramble leaves (still around now), dandelion leaves (there are some around but may need hunting down)
- try a different hay or readigrass
- soaked / slightly moist pellets
- baby food on a small saucer or jar lid (eg carrot, mixed veg, apple, pear). I get the ones in small jars and fridge it between feeds.

Sometimes I find that throwing a lot of 'nice' food at them just puts them off, so maybe try one or 2 at a time. Mine also seem to prefer to browse bunny-safe bushes if they are outside. If they are inside, I try to mimic this by hanging small bunches or branches up just above head height as they seem to find it easier to eat / more interesting than just being in piles on the floor. There is also less wastage this way.

Rabbits should not have dairy - ie no yogurt or cheese / milk in baby food. Oral thrush should have been noticed during the dental or subsequent check ups so I wouldn't be worried about it.

Rabbit teeth grow remarkably quickly and can change from OK to needing a dental within a week. Even small spurs can cause quite a lot of discomfort and are probably better sorted early - before it affects them eating. It is useful to weigh a dental bunny regularly (eg weekly) and get their teeth checked out when they start to lose weight over a couple of weeks.

Well done on the PDSA for taking on a dental bunny.

He has just been re-admitted at the PDSA hospital. The vet we saw today was much more rabbit savvy and has operated on a rabbit with a gut obstruction in the past (says she never wants to do it again!) - she gave him a thorough check and said his stomach felt doughy but not hard like it was obstructed. As he was refusing the syringe feed (holding it and spitting it out) and due to the pain he's been in (teeth grinding) they've taken him in to get on top of the pain and get him the nutrition he needs - they're giving him pineapple juice to see if they can break down what's in his stomach and get that moving properly again. As far as I'm aware, he hasn't done a wee since Sunday so that's my main concern still but this vet seemed much more on the ball so hopefully we can start to get a grip with the issue and get him well again.

Again, she doesn't think this is dental related.