In two mods about having Poppy spayed

I know the risk is a 90% chance of uterine cancer, but I'm having a really difficult time weighing up that against the risk during what is pretty invasive surgery.

Just the other day someone posted saying they lost the smaller of their three buns during the spay - my thoughts on this is you killed your bun as the surgery was elective. At the time the bun was fit and heathly.

Surely 5-6 years if happiness is better than a life cut seriously short just in case?

That's how I felt about my first rabbit. I didn't exactly decide not to have her spayed, I just never managed to commit myself to go through with it. I did book a consultation to discuss it but the vet sat on the fence and said pretty much it wasn't essential, was up to me etc but did nothing to provide any information. She died at 3 years 9 months. The day she died they found a mass in her abdomen on palpation but she died before they could get any further.

I had thought that losing her at 6 months was just something I couldn't live with, I expected her to live to about 5 years, decided that was preferable to risking losing her earlier. Fact is 5 years on I still haven't forgiven myself for not having her spayed. I'm not 100% sure it was uterine cancer but had added a few details together and it's a strong possibility. All the does I've owned since have been spayed as soon as I can organise it. Esme had a bad reaction to the GA when she went for her spay as she stopped breathing but thanks to the quick actions of the vet she survived and I later had her back again and successfully spayed. Since Esme I've made sure the most rabbit savvy vet available to me has done the op to ensure as good an outcome as possible. They also keep them in overnight after surgery which I'm happier with as it's as calm as possible for them.

The risk of anything going wrong is slim but I can totally understand your apprehension.

I do understand your concern, and yes of course every now and then a bun will sadly not make it (usually due to a pre-existing condition that would have come out sooner or later anyway even if they appeared fit and healthy at the time) but these get highlighted more on this sort of forum than in the real world. In the hands of an experienced vet, it's really a very safe operation. Although it's quite fiddly, it's far less major surgery than the equivalent operation in humans and far quicker to repair - partly because the incision is done along the 'grain' of the muscle rather than across it like they do in humans (to enable them to hide the scar).

My view is that this surgery is not simply about uterine cancer, although that is a very good reason. It is also about giving the bun the best opportunity to have a relaxed and carefree life. Bunny hormones are immensely strong and drive all sorts of instinctive and territorial behaviour. A female hormonal bunny will have a very strong instinct to defend her territory and to be on her guard and alert against her territory all the time. She will often get aggressive and will not be very friendly or happy. Spaying removes these hormones and allows bunny to become relaxed and enjoy life more rather than constantly being on edge.

The other thing is, the risk of uterine cancer is so high, along with secondary complications like lung tumours or womb infections, that I think it's far better to risk it as elective surgery while a rabbit is younger and healthy, rather than be forced into a decision about having it done with limited preparation on a very poorly bunny because of cancer or infection. Of course there's always a risk, but it's far lower on a healthy bun than a poorly one.

Hope that makes sense!

You know what else is pretty invasive? Cancer.

Seems a no brainer to me personally :?

In reality you are gambling with her life and having the view that you will have 5-6 years where just last week at work we had one lady lose her unspayed female at 2 and a half to mammary tumors which are highly linked to being left entire. Also is she bonded? Because if not spaying her will make finding her a friend much easier.
Yes the surgery is invasive and everyone has the right to decide what is best for there pet however in my females I had them spayed because I couldn't face losing them to something I could have prevented,
If you have a rabbit savvy vet the risks are very minimal and anaesthetic deaths are as already mentioned usually down to a pre existing condition which would affect the life span anyway

Anaesthetic is quite low risk now, when a rabbit does die (which is very rare) often it's because there was a underlying issue that wasn't identified eg a heart condition. As these type of things could quite possibly have limited the buns life expectancy anyway so you're not necessarily comparing 6 months to 6 years.

It is difficult making the decision though, I don't think anyone books a spay without feeling a bit apprehensive

I've lost a bun to uterine cancer, it was horrendous and I know she suffered. We didn't know about it at the time though she would have been spayed had she been healthy enough (rescue and very overweight with other health problems) which means with hindsight we can see the first symptom (blood in urine which we took to be red urine from dandelions) occurred months before we lost her. That is perhaps weeks of suffering before she even let us know she was ill. You know how well buns hide pain.

A young bun that dies on the table will not know anything about it, there will be no pain. To me that is infinitely better. Especially as you can't guarantee that it will be 5-6 years before cancer rears its ugly head, a member on here recently had their 3yr old spayed and she was found to be riddled with cancer and the spay literally saved her life.

Cancer aside a unspayed female is very often a bag of hormones. I know what it feels like to be broody and would not inflict the stress of phantom pregnancies upon any animal.

Yes spays are a big op. And there will always be a risk, and yes it normally takes a good few days for them to feel better. Sure beats a lifetime of phantom pregnancies and the pain of cancer, in my opinion!

jemjabella said:

You know what else is pretty invasive? Cancer.

Seems a no brainer to me personally :?

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I think that's a bit harsh!

I completely understand your concerns and I had the same worry- and my bunny is a boy!! :lol:

I do agree with the others that for health and behavioural reasons you should have her spayed.

The best thing you can do is be informed. Speak to your vet. Ask how many spays they do, what procedures they have for the op, what post-op care they offer etc. I rang my vet numerous times before Ludo's surgery and a good vet won't mind the questions. I even spoke to the nurse who would be looking after Ludo and she went through it point by point saying how they minimise complications and risk. For example, they keep the bunnies on heat pads to stop them losing heat and have a nurse with the rabbit throughout whose only job is to check airways and breathing. They also said they hadn't lost any animal in a routine neutering for a number of years who hadn't got an exisiting condition.

In the end I felt confident that the surgery knew what they were doing and cared so I went through with it. I've never regretted it and it's now something that has been done and will never need doing again.

So my advice is take your time, think it through and speak to your vet. :wave:

Whitelighter said:

I know the risk is a 90% chance of uterine cancer, but I'm having a really difficult time weighing up that against the risk during what is pretty invasive surgery.

Just the other day someone posted saying they lost the smaller of their three buns during the spay - my thoughts on this is you killed your bun as the surgery was elective. At the time the bun was fit and heathly.

Surely 5-6 years if happiness is better than a life cut seriously short just in case?

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:shock::shock: I'm amazed you think that's an acceptable thing to say.

Of course I would always recommend someone looks around for a good rabbit vet who recommends spays for rabbits and does them regularly.

I had Ash spayed at 6 months. I mainly had it done for the risk of cancer but I noticed lots of other benefits too. Within days she was better natured, less territorial, less keen to dig out the garden (which obviously carries risks). Rabbits who are spayed are also much more likely to tolerate and benefit from a friend. You say 5 years of happiness - I'm not convinced a bunny on their own (as she is likely to be if not spayed) is going to be totally happy for 5 years unless you are able to spend a significant amount of time with them. I wasn't able to get Ash a friend until this year due to circumstances but I'm so glad I did it.

There are people on here who have their rabbits spayed and the vets have told them after that the rabbit would have been dead within weeks had it not been done, because there were already signs of cancer that would not have been picked up otherwise.

Obviously there is a risk from anaesthetic but I have to take Ash 3 times a year for a dental so that's something I worry about on a regular basis, but she has to have it done so I weigh the risks against the benefits. To me a spay is no different, only you see the benefits over the long term period and cannot be measured the same way.

To me, having both Levi and Daisy neutered was an absolute no brainer. The health benefits for them massively outweighed my nerves about the procedure. And I agree that if the worst happened and they didn't pull through they would have been totally unaware and just gone peacefully. Having read about the effect of bunny hormones I would never have wanted to leave them unneutered, I don't think it's fair on them. And also remember that the majority of surgeries go without a hitch, but because people tend to post on here when something goes wrong or they have a problem then you might be getting a skewed view on just how dangerous it is.

I cried and cried and tore myself up about worrying about Stephen's neuter. I was terrified he'd die. He's my baby, my soul bunny, but to me his happiness and wellbeing was most important... As an unspayed female she's unlikely to tolerate a friend, and may display all the behaviours of an intact doe, and she's almost guaranteed to get cancer. Cancer is not a nice thing for anyone to suffer with, never mind a poor bunny who can't tell you they're ill or hurting.

To suggest because the surgery was 'elective' that someone killed their rabbit is just awful as far as I'm concerned. Ellie's abcess removal was 'elective' as it wasn't an emergency, should I have just left her with an abcess the size of a golf ball until it became an emergency because if she'd died it would have been my fault? :? No. It's a preventative surgery, to stop more problems occurring in the future. How about regular dentals? They're elective surgeries too as I don't leave Ellie's teeth until they're so bad she's gone into stasis and stopped eating, would it be my fault if she died during a dental too? It might feel like it but you're doing the best thing for your rabbit.

Hesperus said:

I think that's a bit harsh!

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Saying that cancer is invasive is harsh? :?

jemjabella said:

Saying that cancer is invasive is harsh? :?

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No, but it is not so much what is posted but the tone used.

OP, I would want to go ahead with the spay as long as the Vet carrying out the procedure was Rabbit Savvy. I would like pre op bloods run to check major organ function and before starting the surgery I would like a chest Xray done. UC usually spreads to the lungs, so any abnormalities on a chest Xray indicating the possibility of metastatic disease would be a reason not to proceed with a spay.

Jack's-Jane said:

No, but it is not so much what is posted but the tone used.

OP, I would want to go ahead with the spay as long as the Vet carrying out the procedure was Rabbit Savvy. I would like pre op bloods run to check major organ function and before starting the surgery I would like a chest Xray done. UC usually spreads to the lungs, so any abnormalities on a chest Xray indicating the possibility of metastatic disease would be a reason not to proceed with a spay.

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:thumb:

Jack's-Jane said:

No, but it is not so much what is posted but the tone used.

OP, I would want to go ahead with the spay as long as the Vet carrying out the procedure was Rabbit Savvy. I would like pre op bloods run to check major organ function and before starting the surgery I would like a chest Xray done. UC usually spreads to the lungs, so any abnormalities on a chest Xray indicating the possibility of metastatic disease would be a reason not to proceed with a spay.

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Thanks to all those who have responded on a constructive way.

The above sounds like a good way forward.

Jack's-Jane said:

No, but it is not so much what is posted but the tone used.

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Ohhhh I'm sorry, does this help?

"You know what else is pretty invasive? Cancer. "

'Cause now it just looks like I'm being flippant, and I don't think cancer is something to be flippant over personally.

Whitelighter said:

Thanks to all those who have responded on a constructive way.

The above sounds like a good way forward.

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It is what I have done when spaying a more mature Doe

this thread has been really useful for me as I am still dithering over spaying Princess Katie, she is nearly 4, I have been worrying since I adopted her that 3 was too old to come through the aneasthetic safely, but JacksJane's post made a lot of sense. i need to go back to the vet and talk about the procedure again.

Also a great thread for me
Waffles is only 3 months so it's a bit soon but am feeling bad for planning to neuter both her and Dumblepaws
I totally get it's the right thing to do and will do it but I still feel like I'm being a meanie

Goth Mummy said:

this thread has been really useful for me as I am still dithering over spaying Princess Katie, she is nearly 4, I have been worrying since I adopted her that 3 was too old to come through the aneasthetic safely, but JacksJane's post made a lot of sense. i need to go back to the vet and talk about the procedure again.

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I'm glad other are struggling with the decision.

Some on here seem to think that to even ask the question suggests your bit a fit person to have a bun - which is a shame