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Help! Ludo is worse UD post 38, getting better!

Hesperus

Warren Veteran
Hi all,

Ludo has stasis. We've been on top of it for 2 days but this morning he seems worse. Last night at 9pm he seemed almost 100% and was eating hay and pooping.

Overnight he's stopped eating and pooping again. Nothing has changed in his night routine so we think this is as the medication wears off.

Two vets (one rabbit savvy) have checked him over thoroughly. They said all they can feel is that he's empty, nothing else wrong at all. No signs of any other illness either. Teeth are ok they think, slight ridges but not enough to be a problem (they would think it was that as a last resort).

Ludo is eating bits and bobs but struggling. It's not the mechanics of eating, it's that he doesn't seem to fancy anything. He's eaten: the tender bits of dandelion leaves, kale, apple bark, a few nuggets and hay (if handfed). He is obviously hungry as keeps returning to the food bowls and plates to see what he can eat.

Does anyone have any ideas what could be wrong with him? I don't think he's in pain today, though obvs will get more painkillers, so I don't think that's the cause. I can't see how he can eat hay last night and hard apple tree today but not want his pellets if it's his teeth...... Both vets are adamant it's not a blockage or gas, and he has passed poos normally last night. He's not been stressed or had any change in environment.

He's indoors so it's not the cold either!

Please help everyone, with suggestions that I can ask the vet or tips to get him to eat.
 
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I'd query teeth, I really would. The tiniest little spur, which might not even be visible (they aren't always unless under GA) can cause a bun to go off food. Rabbits teeth grow at a crazy pace too, so it would make sense...
 
Has the Vet checked his ears ? Ear pain can cause anorexia and secondary GI tract hypomotility

Is he drinking ?

Has he ever passed sludgy wee and is his urine output normal at the moment ?
 
If he has frequent stasis episodes with no obvious GI reasons found and nothing now suggests a GI problem I'd want to look at other causes. The inappetite you describe reminds me of the frequent not eating episodes Artie had that were never given a diagnosis. When he was taken to the vets on one of these episodes he was found to have chronic bladder sludge so that was almost certainly what had caused him to have his not eating bouts for a year or so. In his case there had never been sludgy urine so no clues, the calcium simply built up in his bladder.

May be time with Ludo to look outside GI causes.
 
Has the Vet checked his ears ? Ear pain can cause anorexia and secondary GI tract hypomotility

Is he drinking ?

Has he ever passed sludgy wee and is his urine output normal at the moment ?

I'm not entirely sure on the ears I couldn't see the examination as they had to wrap him in a towel and I went to the corner or he smells me and wriggles. He's back at 12. Thanks for the advice I'll make sure I ask.

Yes, he's drinking and peeing fine and never had a problem on that front.
 
I'd query teeth, I really would. The tiniest little spur, which might not even be visible (they aren't always unless under GA) can cause a bun to go off food. Rabbits teeth grow at a crazy pace too, so it would make sense...

I'll get them to look again, I've got the other rabbit savvy vet today, but I must say I just don't think it's teeth from what he's eating and how he is. It's almost like lack of appetite and tummy ache are the illness themselves not just the symptoms...
 
If he has frequent stasis episodes with no obvious GI reasons found and nothing now suggests a GI problem I'd want to look at other causes. The inappetite you describe reminds me of the frequent not eating episodes Artie had that were never given a diagnosis. When he was taken to the vets on one of these episodes he was found to have chronic bladder sludge so that was almost certainly what had caused him to have his not eating bouts for a year or so. In his case there had never been sludgy urine so no clues, the calcium simply built up in his bladder.

May be time with Ludo to look outside GI causes.

What's the cure for sludy bladder? I'll ask the vet about it at 12 as well!
 
I'm not entirely sure on the ears I couldn't see the examination as they had to wrap him in a towel and I went to the corner or he smells me and wriggles. He's back at 12. Thanks for the advice I'll make sure I ask.

Yes, he's drinking and peeing fine and never had a problem on that front.

Make sure the Vet actually looks down the ear canals with an otoscope, not just a cursory 'eyes only' look,

Also ask the Vet to check for any signs of spinal/hip pain. Arthritic pain can also cause secondary GI tract issues. My arthritic Rabbits are always more profoundly effected in damp weather, even though they are indoors. My arthritis is bad at the moment too so I can totally empathise with them on that front.

Has he ever needed Dental treatment before ? It is certainly the case that a tiny sharp spur or slightly long molar crowns can make some Rabbits go off their food. More can be seen in an anaesthetised Rabbit, but obviously it is not ideal to have to GA a Rabbit who is already in gut stasis.

A full blood profile may be useful
 
What's the cure for sludy bladder? I'll ask the vet about it at 12 as well!

There is no cure, just careful management usually by diet.

In Artie's case he needed surgery and then medication and his bladder expressing every 5 weeks for the next 4 years! This is just one possible cause as a pain response/lack of appetite though it could be any number of other things such as Jane has suggested, ears etc.

Edit to add. Artie had another pain/not eating episode few years later which was found (by x-ray) to be kidney stones. It was obvious by his demeanour that there was something wrong though, so unless Ludo seems really depressed/in obvious pain then this is very unlikely but just another example of not eating/pain being unrelated to GI problems.

Edit again to add: What's his demeanour like? Is he happy in himself but not not interested in food or is he not interested generally?
 
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I've just realised that my posts are a bit doom and gloom, it's more likely to be something not as serious!

I hope all goes well at 12.
 
Make sure the Vet actually looks down the ear canals with an otoscope, not just a cursory 'eyes only' look,

Also ask the Vet to check for any signs of spinal/hip pain. Arthritic pain can also cause secondary GI tract issues. My arthritic Rabbits are always more profoundly effected in damp weather, even though they are indoors. My arthritis is bad at the moment too so I can totally empathise with them on that front.

Has he ever needed Dental treatment before ? It is certainly the case that a tiny sharp spur or slightly long molar crowns can make some Rabbits go off their food. More can be seen in an anaesthetised Rabbit, but obviously it is not ideal to have to GA a Rabbit who is already in gut stasis.

A full blood profile may be useful

Will do. Think they may have checked for joint pain but I'll make sure I ask. No, he's never had dental problems, he's a hay monster too. :(
 
There is no cure, just careful management usually by diet.

In Artie's case he needed surgery and then medication and his bladder expressing every 5 weeks for the next 4 years! This is just one possible cause as a pain response/lack of appetite though it could be any number of other things such as Jane has suggested, ears etc.

Edit to add. Artie had another pain/not eating episode few years later which was found (by x-ray) to be kidney stones. It was obvious by his demeanour that there was something wrong though, so unless Ludo seems really depressed/in obvious pain then this is very unlikely but just another example of not eating/pain being unrelated to GI problems.

Edit again to add: What's his demeanour like? Is he happy in himself but not not interested in food or is he not interested generally?

He's almost fine in himself. Just has moments of depression, then he's back to being naughty and normal again. He's done binkies and mad dashes when on the painkillers. This morning he veers between the depressed and the dashing around as normal. Odd.
 
I've seen Mimzy stop eating even with the most minute of spurs. He also has bladder problems too now, and arthritis, so it's a triple threat with him. Since his head tilt he gets the worst waxy buildup in his ears as well, all these are reasons he goes off his food.
He used to be an exactly three month dental bun, even if the teeth were only minorly uneven. He just wouldn't eat even though you could see he wanted to. :(

I think it was Judy (thumps_) or Jack's-Jane who said that as a bun grows inappetant it can cause the teeth to grow quicker, what didn't look spurred one day can literally almost spike overnight. I think it's because of toxins of some kind that proliferate in the empty gut? Please, someone feel free to correct me if I've put it wrongly.

I don't know why this came to mind as it's unlikely, but is there any danger he's got the beginnings of hepatic lipidosis going on? I know that can come about as a result of inappetance, especially over a prolonged time. I would think not with him having eaten earlier and now just gone off his food again, but maybe his liver should be looked at.

BTW, how often are you giving the pain relief? Once a day can be broken down into two and I find my bunnies do better with the 12 hour doses. Just a thought.

Poor Ludo. I really hope whatever's causing his troubles is sorted soon. (((((((((((((((((((Healing vibes))))))))))))))) for him. Good luck at he vets! xxxx
 
I really hope you find out what the problem is. Lots of vibes for gorgeous Ludo and lots of hugs for you.
 
Thanks all.

The (third!) vet still can't find anything wrong except the emptiness.

He does think there has been an improvement in the feeling of his tummy and there was more food in it.

He's having his painkillers by injection so that's why they're every 24 hours.

ETA: This vet knows Ludo the best and says he thinks it's physical weakness with the guts.
 
He's almost fine in himself. Just has moments of depression, then he's back to being naughty and normal again. He's done binkies and mad dashes when on the painkillers. This morning he veers between the depressed and the dashing around as normal. Odd.

This sounds an awful lot like my Finley bun he had bulla abscesses in his ears which made eating painful for him so he would go into stasis if I kept up his painrelief he was 100% fine when it started to wear of he'd appear depressed
Sending vibes for your boy
 
Could you be given metaclop to help Ludo yourself? I know the injection is a lot stronger than the amount I give to Doughnut but I just mean short term while he's getting back on his feet. Like you say once it starts wearing off he stops eating. Is he on metacam too?
 
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