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Advice desperately needed re possible depressed rabbit UPDATE post 20

katie88

Mama Doe
Ok, this may take quite a bit of explaining, but please stay with me if you can because I really do need some advice.

Marbles and Misfit have lived separately for 2 years. I got them as babies but they started fighting before they were old enough to be spayed. I got them both done asap but never managed to re-bond them. They both live outside in separate hutch/run combos. Marbles is a very needy rabbit. She craves attention and will sit being stroked for as long as I will stroke her. I bring her inside with me as often as I can (I know that this is bad for respiratory systems but because Marbles is the way she is I made the decision that the benefits for her outweigh the risks - I know not everyone will agree with this but please refrain from commenting on that if you can).

About 8 months ago I was forced to move back with my parents after a relationship breakdown. When I moved, Marbles went completely off her hay. I took her to the vets who said he thought it might be teeth, put her under GA and filed them. At the time he said that although she had some small spurs, they weren't bad at all and that he wasn't sure if that was entirely the issue. It took her a couple of weeks but she gradually got back to eating her hay, so I assumed it might be a combination of teeth and the stress of moving (Marbles gets very anxious). A couple of weeks ago, the same thing started happening. So took her back to vet and same scenario, some small spurs but he didn't think bad enough to put her off her hay entirely. It has been 3 days since her dental and she's still barely touching her hay, but she is eating her pellets and veg/forage. She is going back to the vets tomorrow.

Today I got home from work, went out to see her, and she hadn't touched her hay all day. I sat with her for a while, stroking her, and she starting nibbling on some old bits of hay on the floor. Odd I thought, so I got a handful of fresh stuff and put it in front of her. As I was stroking her, she was chomping away on this hay like there's no tomorrow. I came back inside and she stopped eating her hay and was sitting in the corner. I went out again and again, when I was with her, she would eat her hay. This has suddenly got me thinking, could Marbles be depressed? Could depression/loneliness cause a rabbit to just stop eating hay and nothing else? OR, on the other hand, how long does it take for a rabbit to recover from a dental? Should they be back to usual appetite straight away or could it take a while?

I am faced now with some very difficult decisions. I think I know, deep down, that Marbles needs company. I am hoping to buy my first home at some point next year and was thinking of having Marbles as a house rabbit (this isn't an option while I'm living with my parents). But now I am not sure if she can wait that long - it could be another 6 months or so before I am able to buy. Otherwise, I could get a third rabbit and bond Marbles with another, but this would mean making changes to their housing and I'd also want to get a friend for Misfit as I'd feel guilty leaving her alone. I don't know how realistic it would be to have to support 4 rabbits whilst also being solely responsible for a mortgage for the first time. The only other option I can think is to put one, or both, of them up for adoption. But the thought of this would break my heart and I really don't want that.

Please can someone help me? Firstly, could the hay problem purely just be because of her teeth or could it be a sign of depression? I have so much guilt about Marbles and I wish I could give her more but I just don't know if I can. I am so upset. Please help me.

THank you for reading and sorry this is so long.
 
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With regards to the hay, it is strange she will eat it while you are there and then stop. It would indicate that she can eat it OK so probably not her teeth. I am not really sure what to suggest.

I know you have probably thought of it but I will ask anyway...

Have you considered trying to bond them again now that you are in a different place i.e. totally new territory or is there anywhere that could be used as new territory for the bonding attempt.

You could maybe try putting a cuddly toy in with Marbles to see if that helps her.
 
Goodness I wish somehow I could rebond them, that would just be amazing. Admittedly I haven't tried again since I've been here, I suppose I could try...some of the rebonding attempts previously got quite nasty so I have really lost my confidence with it. I have been unable to find anyone who offers a bonding service anywhere in my area (I looked into this ages ago and the nearest place was a place called cottontail rescue I think, and when I contacted the lady there she said that a broken female to female bond was unlikely to be rebuilt and that I should consider alternatives).

That's a good point about the toy - marbles does already have a cuddly toy and she spends so much time cuddling up to it and grooming it :cry: But it doesn't seem to help her in the long-term. She is just so needy I have never had a rabbit like her before, it's like she needs constant attention.
 
Hi Katie, Marbles not eating hay could be due to depression, I found that when my Dutch bunny Sheldon lost his lifelong companion Leonard he stopped eating anything for a while and I had to syringe feed him. It is not good for rabbits not to eat as I'm sure you know. Also it doesn't take long for Rabbits to recover from dentals a they should start eating normally straight away. I did try and rebond Sheldon but found I was fighting a losing battle and I eventually accepted he would have to be on his own. I am now a few months on and he is back eating again and starting to get back to his old self. It may just take marbles some time to get used to a new set up. As you said yourself it would be difficult and probably not wise to take on more rabbits and I agree with this. I would give it time, give marbles as much love and attention as you can. If in a couple of months her behaviour has not changed then maybe consider finding her a companion. I know this is quite a brief and rambled reply but I hope in some way it helps.
 
Hi Katie, Marbles not eating hay could be due to depression, I found that when my Dutch bunny Sheldon lost his lifelong companion Leonard he stopped eating anything for a while and I had to syringe feed him. It is not good for rabbits not to eat as I'm sure you know. Also it doesn't take long for Rabbits to recover from dentals a they should start eating normally straight away. I did try and rebond Sheldon but found I was fighting a losing battle and I eventually accepted he would have to be on his own. I am now a few months on and he is back eating again and starting to get back to his old self. It may just take marbles some time to get used to a new set up. As you said yourself it would be difficult and probably not wise to take on more rabbits and I agree with this. I would give it time, give marbles as much love and attention as you can. If in a couple of months her behaviour has not changed then maybe consider finding her a companion. I know this is quite a brief and rambled reply but I hope in some way it helps.

Not rambled at all, I am so grateful for anyone taking the time to reply to this. It's useful to know that you had a similar experience (on a side note, I love your bunnies names :)).
THe thing is she has lived alone for 2 years now, and we have been living here for almost 8 months. If anything, I think she is getting worse rather than better. I feel like I have been putting off the issue for as long as I can, just hoping that some magic solution would happen, and I just don't think I can keep Marbles going like this much longer. My life has been rather hectic the last few months so I haven't been able to give her as much time as I would like. Perhaps if I could give up some other things to make more time for Marbles that might just keep her going until I move next year. I just don't know.
 
Thankyou! They live up to their names! I also have an indoor Mini Lop called Spock who is a cheeky little man! Back to Marbles.. I feel really sad for you.. My heart breaks as I remember how it felt with Sheldon when I would look out the window and see him in his run looking so sad on his own. I saw that you said there was only one place near you that bonds bunnies? Are there any cats and dogs homes or small animal rescue centres near you? As they will often help with or even carry out the bonding process if you adopt a bunny from them, this may be worth looking into as it sounds as she may really need a companion. Would you be willing to go far if you found somebody who would be able to find her a lovely husbun?
 
Hi,

I know what you're going through. About 3 months ago I had to separate Bella & Pepper (mother/daughter) who had lived together happily for over five years.

Suddenly, one day, they severely fell out. It was absolutely terrifying. My dad and I split them as fast as we could otherwise I'm quite sure Bella would have been incredibly hurt.

Pepper seems to be fine in her new place on her own but Bella is - I would say - very depressed. She is quiet and lonely and does not eat hay with as much excitement as she used to. She used to bound around happily and was so excited when I fed her something new but she no longer has this. She is unspayed (but is now too old to have the op - I think) and so cannot be bonded with another bun because she is incredibly territorial.

I don't really have much advice - just wanted you to know you're not alone. I would suggest putting their runs next door so that they can see eachother. Bella's run is next to another one of my buns' runs and she spends a lot of time there. Occasionally I take Bunny to Pepper's house so that she knows her little daughter is still around :cry:

I hope you notice an improvement with her soon.
 
It might be worth giving bonding another go. Try it in short "dates" and separate whilst things are "good" (or obviously if signs of aggression are shown) and try again later or the next day lengthening the amount of time they are together. You would also have to be calm and in the right frame of mind or they can sense it.

Rub some fenugreek crunchies over each of them and they may start to lick each other ;) He he, I tried this and Cassie would lick Katy.

On a longer term note........... would you consider getting a shed with a divider down the middle so that they could live next to each other but separate.

My two girls were like that but were still company for each other.

I did have Homer and Katy as a pair who lived happily after 4 months of attempted patient bonding. We did it slow time and then got a new shed and once we got that i.e. totally neutral the bond worked but we still did it slowly (dating). We acquired another female a couple of years ago and when we lost Homer we tried to bond Katy and Cassie. No way would Katy accept Cassie but they were always company next to each other. If one went in the garden so did the other, they were never far away from each other but remove the mesh divider and there was trouble.

We lost Katy last month :cry: and Cassie is missing her so I am going to get her cuddly toy to try but we are spending more time with her.

I would not give up on the bonding just yet. Allow yourself plenty of time and have lots of patience x
 
Thank you all so much for your advice you have been really helpful.

Alsie-Whitt - I am sorry to hear that Sheldon has had a tough time too :( There are two general pet adoption centres near me (an RSPCA and a something-else!). I would also be more than willing to travel further afield if necessary. I just need to decide whether adopting a third is a feasible option, and I'd need time to weigh up housing/costings etc. I often see some of the lovely buns up for adoption on here and think what great friends many of them would make for marbles.

Marchi1990 - thank you so much, it is really helpful to know I'm not the only one. I'm sorry to hear that happened to Bella and Pepper. I just feel so guilty about marbles sometimes and like I am failing her. I wish there was a simple solution for her. Actually the runs together thing is a good suggestion and definitely a do-able option, I would just need to shift a few things around. I do think that would be helpful. Thank you.

Bunnybabe - I'm so sorry that you lost Katy. The fenugreek crunchie idea is a fab one, they are both very big fans of fenugreek crunchies :) I suppose there is no harm in giving the bonding another go. It has been some time since I last tried (maybe close to a year). I wonder if buns 'forget' after a period of time? I sense they probably wouldn't. Also the shed idea is a really good one. This is another thing I had considered for when I move, that I could get a shed, split it down the middle and then at least they'd sort of be together. The only trouble is again that isn't doable while I am living with my parents so it would have to wait a while until I can move.

I just feel like if I can somehow keep her going for a little while, then when I move I will have a few more options open to me. But it's just whether she can wait that long. It could easily be 6+ months. I just opened up a new bag of hay and it smelt really fresh and sweet. Marbles had a good nibble and I came inside then went back out and she was still munching, so that is a good sign at least. I have just bought some nice hays from thehayexperts which they both love as a treat, in the hope I might be able to coerce her back into hay! But I feel like whenever I try things like that I am really just trying to delay the issue at hand and I don't want to do that to marbles anymore.
 
As someone else has suggested put the runs next to each other (if they are not already), it is a step in the right direction and they will be company for each other.

If you can't leave it until you move and do want to have a go at bonding (If you don't give it another go you will alway wonder.), find a small neutral place and use the fenugreek crunchies trick, it may just help them get used to each other and take thier mind of it ;)

Try it slowly so it is not too much pressure on you and the buns and keep it as amicable as possible, separate on a good note so they don't remember any "bad" things. Build the time up slowly or as long as they are comfortable with each other.

I know some people don't agree with this method but it worked for Homer and Katy (we tried all sorts originally) and it ended up that Katy (the troublesome one :love: ) adored Homer (they are in my photo below). It may or may not work but I do hope that it works for your girls x
 
I have 4 rabbits - two pairs - due to a trio bond breaking down rather than actually choosing to have four! My biggest expense is insurance; it costs me over £50 a month for all of them, though I know I could get it cheaper if I went with another company. Basic food/litter costs aren't too bad. Yes its more than with two, but when you buy in bulk (hay bales rather than bags, etc) then its not a massive increase.

I agree with trying to rebond Marbles and Misfit. My only other thought would be if your parents would consider Marbles living indoors but restricted to your room? Sure you've probably already thought of that though.

When my bunny Pickle has been in boarding, or had to stay at the vets, he quite often goes off his pellets for a few days. Absolutely fine in every other way and eats everything else. I do think that a break in routine or stressful episode can affect them and it seems to show in their appetite.

Good luck, its so difficult trying to deal with things like this when there are no easy answers. Really hope Marbles picks up soon xx
 
It does sound as though she is depressed and also possibly getting cold in this weather and hence perks up when stroked and a warm hand she loves comes to her

Can you try the cage in the bedroom route?
 
When she's outside she spends all her time in her run, never goes into her enclosed hutch bit (unlike misfit who makes a proper nest in there) and she doesn't go anywhere near her heatpad either, so I don't think temperature is the issue. Unfortunately there just isn't enough space for her in my room. I went from my own house to a room in my parents' house so it already difficult space-wise. She would have to have such a tiny cage inside

I think I will try re-jigging their accommodation so their runs can be right up against each other and see if that helps enough as a temporary measure until I move. If not I will have to reconsider getting a third bun. Thank you debster for the advice re cost - I tend to buy hay in bulk anyway so I did think that food costs wouldn't be much higher. I think it's the vet bills that would worry me.
 
I just got a cuddly toy from card warehouse (a dog with a Christmas hat on :roll: ) and put it in with Cassie. Bless her, she licked it :love: It was only £3.99 too so not too much if she doesn't bother with it.
 
I just got a cuddly toy from card warehouse (a dog with a Christmas hat on :roll: ) and put it in with Cassie. Bless her, she licked it :love: It was only £3.99 too so not too much if she doesn't bother with it.

Oh bless her! I always find it a little bit tragic when marbles cuddles up to her teddy but I suppose if it keeps her company when I'm not there then that's good.
 
Oh bless her! I always find it a little bit tragic when marbles cuddles up to her teddy but I suppose if it keeps her company when I'm not there then that's good.

Yes, I do feel a little guilty myself. Shown people photos in work today and they said how cute she is :love:
 
Aw do you have any pics of Cassie, I'd love to see some?

This was marbles with her teddy yesterday :-(
20131122_191255.jpg
 
:oops: I tried to upload from my phone before to show you with the teddy but couldn't do it. I'll try to have another go.

Bless Marbles, she is lovely.

ETA - here is one for now (the divider is now taken down since we lost Katy :cry:)

 
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Just wanted to update everybody who helped me on this. Their runs have been together for a few days now and marbles' appetite has started to pick up :love: They spend a lot of time talking to each other and even misfit (the original aggressor who has always seemed very happy alone) has been binkying like mad.

This is marbles currently tucking into some hay!

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