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Billy - Bloat twice, one heavy molting, all pain in the neck.

S

Snooba

Warren Scout
Hi bunny owners. I need a bit of advice here, to see if I forgot something.

On Tuesday 5th this month, I found Billy, restless, agitated...and unable to just drop and rest. I knew he was hurting...so I immediately gave him a dose of Meloxicam. I thought to myself, "well, maybe its a bit of gas...". To my horror, the moment I touched his stomach, I almost started crying right there. His stomach was massive, as if he has swallowed a balloon. I gave him a big dose of simethicone and I started with the belly massages and with metoclopramide as the pain had caused him to go into stasis: nothing in, nothing out.

Next morning we had our first poops, small and black...but hey, it was something. His stomach had returned to normal, and by Friday he was doing so well (huge brown pops, lots of pee) that I decided to start reducing his metoclopramide dosis, from 3 times a day to 2.

On Saturday morning...no poops...and on Saturday afternoon, abdominal pain again, with a balloon sized stomach again. So I repeated the procedure.
Monday morning, we get some poops again...so I decide to continue with the motility drugs and the simeticone till he recovered fully.

Its been a week since he came out of this second bloat, and his poops are still quite depressing to see. Since he is going through a heavy molting (we are nearing summer here) I assume this is the reason of the whole issue (dental is fine, he was checked only a week before this whole mess started, and aside from a bit of a sore hock which is cured now, he was given a clean bill of health).

I cut a couple of poops in two, and effectively, they are full of fur. I've been plucking and brushing as much as he lets me, but he still has half of his old fur to lose.
On Friday his poops were AWESOME...big, round and full of fiber. Today, they were just meh.

Right now, he is active as usual. Eats and drinks normally, veggies twice a day (fennel, endives, cilantro are his favorites), some pellets, and hay all day (and a piece of papaya). He runs around and binkies and all...but very little is coming out his bum. My vet also suggested to give him a bit of a cat hairball medicine...but I've heard contradicting stories about this one.

His diet hasn't changed at all, so I doubt its the food causing the gas. No obvious pain. My guess (which is also the vet's guess) is all aiming at the fur he is ingesting...by the truckload.

Is there anything I can do to help him? Something I am missing? He still has half his winter coat to lose, so any help is welcome.

Cheers!
 
Giving metoclopromide is sometimes totally inappropriate in cases of bloat. Obviously you were lucky this time but had the bloat involved a full obstruction your Rabbit may well have died.

My advice would be to consult your Vet again to obtain a full examination of your Rabbit to try to establish the primary cause of the problem. Ingestion of fur may be a contributory factor to the gut motility issues, but not the primary cause.

Grooming your Rabbit twice a day to remove as much lose fur as possible should minimise the amount he ingests.

Good luck
 
Jack's-Jane said:
Giving metoclopromide is sometimes totally inappropriate in cases of bloat. Obviously you were lucky this time but had the bloat involved a full obstruction your Rabbit may well have died.

My advice would be to consult your Vet again to obtain a full examination of your Rabbit to try to establish the primary cause of the problem. Ingestion of fur may be a contributory factor to the gut motility issues, but not the primary cause.

Grooming your Rabbit twice a day to remove as much lose fur as possible should minimise the amount he ingests.

Good luck
Click to expand...

Yes, I was fully aware of the risk if he have had an obstruction...but knowing how fast rabbits go down with bloat, I decided to take that risk, specially since I couldn't contact my vet till the day after.

It was that or watch him die a horribly painful death. I won't deny that I got lucky, but the alternative was to sit by him and watch him slowly die in front of my eyes. He was so bad I am pretty sure he wouldn't have made it to the next day, so I don't regret doing it (stomach so big it was already crushing his lungs and making it difficult for him to breathe, heart beats through the roof, and a very low body temperature).

This morning he welcomed me with a litter tray FULL of wonderful big round poops.

He has a scheduled appointment for tomorrow, so we'll see what happens there.

Thanks :wave:
 
Last edited:
It sounds as though there MAY be some dried fur stuck or causing obstruction partially (although it could also be a range of other things).

You sound as though you are not in UK and may not have 'exotics' vets (rabbit specialists?) handy?

I would suspect that as well as a good examination an xray or scan might be in order to see what is going on inside -

You might also think of having bun on fluids (ie drip or just extra injected fluids) (as well as food obviously!!!) for a couple of days in case something needs help hydrating and moving along.

PS I am NOT a vet - o please just think on these suggestions and discuss with a qualified rabbit vet.

-
 
If it is a fur blockage, you could try giving a small amount of pineapple juice - my rabbit rupert has had a few cases of bloat (caused by various things) and the vet said to keep some pineapple juice in (not from concentrate) or even better, pineapple pieces (fresh!) as it has enzymes in which help to break down fur balls.

I agree with the others tho - bunny needs checking for causes.

My rabbit doesn't get blockages, his cases tend to be over as fast as they start - but thats because we act so fast and spot it within seconds of it starting...
 
parsnipbun said:
It sounds as though there MAY be some dried fur stuck or causing obstruction partially (although it could also be a range of other things).

You sound as though you are not in UK and may not have 'exotics' vets (rabbit specialists?) handy?

I would suspect that as well as a good examination an xray or scan might be in order to see what is going on inside -

You might also think of having bun on fluids (ie drip or just extra injected fluids) (as well as food obviously!!!) for a couple of days in case something needs help hydrating and moving along.

PS I am NOT a vet - o please just think on these suggestions and discuss with a qualified rabbit vet.

-
Click to expand...

Nope, not in the UK, I live in Uruguay. Exotic vets aren't easy to find, and I actually managed to find the best (she teaches in the University here). She isn't always available though, which can makes things tricky, and you know rabbits, they always get ill when its 3 am on a Saturday =P

She is currently drinking water on his own, quite a bit of it, and I give him a big slice of papaya every night (he hates pineapple for some reason).
 
Just wanted to add some thoughts and prayers for your bun and you, I am glad that he seems to be doing better. I hope you are able to find a vet who can help him. :)
 
Well, just came back from the vet, and she was unable to find anything wrong with him right now (aside from a sluggish GI).

Teeth are in perfect shape, and no weird mass in the stomach or intestines that can be felt by touching him.
She said she didn't want to do X-Rays at the moment, specially since he is recovering a bit more everyday. She seem to believe that it is just massive amount of fur in his stomach rather than in his intestines, so she suggested changing Metoclopramide for Cisapril, so we can stimulate the upper GI. If thing go a bit downhill, to give both, but she doesn't think that will be the case.

Also to remove his pellets so he gets more hay (even though pellets were at a minimum). He drinks plenty of water, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Other than that. he is still active, eating lots...and running around like if nothing had happened...rabbits :love:
 
Awesome...Billy had a relapse this Sunday, so now they total 5 of them. I caught it just in time, so it didn't get much worse. He ate very little yesterday, but he ate a bunch more today, and he feel a bit more lively, but still a bit down. I wish it was me that had all his problems instead of him :(

My vet no longer knows what to do except for x-rays, to look for an obstruction that she even doubts exists. So far, I have given him 4 meds: meloxicam (which I have just given him the first 2 days, by vets orders), metoclopramide, cisapride and simethicone. He pulls up of the problems when I give him all 4...but as soon as I cut the meloxicam after the second day...it starts to go down. Maybe it goes a bit up first, but it goes down again after that.

I am convinced that what he has now, is not the bloat, the it's aftermath. The bloat itself passed, and now he is in stasis due to the major pain caused by the bloat. And since the vet told me not to give meloxicam past the two days mark, I think the pain from the stasis itself is not allowing him to move forward and poop on his own. It's like a vicious cycle, the pain of the stasis keeps him in stasis, so he has more pain that keeps him in stasis longer....".

So I am going to keep him on meloxicam 1mg/kg every 12 hours this week, and then every 24 next week. I am truly desperate, I had to ask for a few days off work so I could keep even more time watching him (I work at home, but now I literally sit in the living room, staring at him all day). I will keep giving him cisapride and simethicone, as the metoclopramide doesn't seem to be doing anything for him.

Billy is stressed when I try to give him his meds, and I am stressed out of my mind. Knowing how fast rabbits go south, I have only slept a maximum of around 3 hours a day since the 2nd of this month, when he got his bloat attack. So I look like someone that just got back from Vietnam.

It's been 24 days to the date since Billy started down this path, so if anyone has any extra suggestion, its quite welcome. I don't think I can think straight anymore.
I don't think I am going back to the vet for this issue, so might as well do it myself.

I even managed him to convince him to eat more hay, but that doesn't seem to be the issue either.

Why did I just fell totally in love with the animal with the most complex digestive system there is?
 
Is there a chance your bunny is in pain from another source (such as urine infection, respiratory, joint pain)? Pain has made a couple of my buns go into stasis as the pain stops them eating as normal so the gut slows down etc etc.
 
silverrabbit said:
Is there a chance your bunny is in pain from another source (such as urine infection, respiratory, joint pain)? Pain has made a couple of my buns go into stasis as the pain stops them eating as normal so the gut slows down etc etc.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. It seems that the GI tract issues are a secondary symptom of another problem. Has the Vet run a full blood profile ?

Caecal impaction is another possibility http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Caecal_Impaction.htm
 
Jack's-Jane said:
I agree with this. It seems that the GI tract issues are a secondary symptom of another problem. Has the Vet run a full blood profile ?

Caecal impaction is another possibility http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Caecal_Impaction.htm
Click to expand...

No, no blood test, I will call her up and see what she tells me.

Fairly sure there is no caecal impaction, as my vet palpated him a lot and was unable to find even the slightest trace of anything in there. Plus he poops normal with cisapride, and my vet said that when that happens, it's just motility issues, and not an obstruction.

We have already discarded UTI, and any respiratory issues (lungs sound pristine), but I may as well ask again.
No idea on joint pain though, will have to ask. He didn't seem to have any issues moving, even when he wasn't on meloxicam...but on that, I can't be 100% sure.
We are also sure that its not teeth, this one seems to have (thankfully) all his teeth perfectly aligned.

Its true that stasis often comes from something else, its a symptom after all. My gut feeling tells me it was the bloat attack. I can only imagine the pain he went through, if you took a helium balloon and added two floppy ears, that was just like Billy. What I feel failed here was the pain management after the bloat...as my vet sort of scared me into not using lots of Meloxicam (she hates it for some reason), and so he sank right into a stasis.

What caused the bloat attack however...I have no clue. Maybe he ate something weird he found on the floor? Something that upset his belly so much that all the gas was produced in the span of a couple of hours? He has all the house to go to, including the kitchen (where his litter tray is). Maybe he just ate a small piece of meat or ham he might have found on the floor? I am always very careful about that, but all this has made me second guess myself a lot.

I'll check with the vet and see what she says. Wish I had a different vet to ask for a second opinion, but amongst the 4 exotic vets there seems to be, she is the best, but I guess she also has her limits :(

Oh I should say that Billy is better today, and pooping more. Still not perfect poops (smaller that usual and darker, but that is to be expected), and he is running around the house again.
 
I wouldn't give papaya everyday to a bun with these sorts of issues. IMO the amount of sugar can have an adverse affect on the gut and outweigh any benefit from the enzymes.
 
Amy104 said:
I wouldn't give papaya everyday to a bun with these sorts of issues. IMO the amount of sugar can have an adverse affect on the gut and outweigh any benefit from the enzymes.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm...good point. Thanks for that one.

Just talked to my vet, she still believes that it's caused by fur but to be on the safe side, he is getting an ultrasound tomorrow at 8am.They are bringing in a portable equipment, which is awesome, since he is terrified of car trips.
She also suggested to try and switch meloxicam with ibuprofen. She said that not all pain receptors are the same, and while meloxicam is a great drug, and very strong, maybe it's not working fully for *his* pain.

She tells me that Billy is riding that very fine line in rabbits between being ok and being in stasis. And since he is not the best hay eater ever (I would say he eats average for a bunny, but he might even need more) he might be having trouble getting rid of the hair inside him. She told me to give cat hairball remedy AND/OR liquid vaseline 3 times a day.

Crossing my fingers.
 
Well, I asked the ultrasound lady and I convinced her to come today....and she just left 10 minutes ago. The results were at least encouraging: there is no obstruction whatsoever, kidneys are just fine and dandy, etc. All his internal organs were fine. She did see lots of matter in the gut, and plenty of gas (maybe its the passing of the gas what's causing the pain?). She agrees that it might be just hair accumulating, but I am going to sleep a bit better tonight, knowing that the worst didn't happen.

Funny thing though, Billy was chilling in front of the TV (I was stroking his head) when the technician came in, and as soon as she began setting up the equipment...Billy started getting nervous, his breathing sky rocketed, and he dashed and hid under my bed :roll:

He totally saw it coming. Also, in the middle of it he got one foot free and kicked her in the hand, shredding her glove in two.

And well, I now have a *very* angry rabbit running around the house, flipping his back legs at me whenever I come close :lol:
 
Snooba said:
Hmmmm...good point. Thanks for that one.

Just talked to my vet, she still believes that it's caused by fur but to be on the safe side, he is getting an ultrasound tomorrow at 8am.They are bringing in a portable equipment, which is awesome, since he is terrified of car trips.
She also suggested to try and switch meloxicam with ibuprofen. She said that not all pain receptors are the same, and while meloxicam is a great drug, and very strong, maybe it's not working fully for *his* pain.

She tells me that Billy is riding that very fine line in rabbits between being ok and being in stasis. And since he is not the best hay eater ever (I would say he eats average for a bunny, but he might even need more) he might be having trouble getting rid of the hair inside him. She told me to give cat hairball remedy AND/OR liquid vaseline 3 times a day.

Crossing my fingers.
Click to expand...

I admit, these directions from your vet made my eyebrows go up.
I have heard from time to time a vet prescribing hairball meds for bunnies, but neither that nor Vaseline is an appropriate thing for a rabbit to ingest in my experience. I've taken from your posts that your vet isn't particularly savvy on exotics?
I agree that things like papaya and pineapple really don't benefit as much as we'd like due to their sugar content. But I empathize on having a bun who has fur issues and doesn't like hay much. Mimzy is very much like this now since his tilt, panics at being groomed and only likes mature oat hay which, while a great source of fiber and yummy (to bunnies) is a bit heavy and dry and since he doesn't drink a lot of water it really backs things up internally. :(
What kind of greens does Billy like if any? And how goes the limiting of pellets? I had to almost completely wipe pellets from my rabbits' diets as they caused all sorts of issues. Mimzy only gets an 8th of a teaspoon in the evening to keep his weight up. They are fattening for some bunnies.
Do you feed him any wild forage at all? Sometimes bunnies who aren't keen on hay like the wilder plants like plantain, strawberry or bramble leaves, etc. (not sure how many of these you'll find in your location and they have to be pesticide free)
When my mini rex, Fiver, had trouble with his cecum his vet put him on strictly timothy hay, no treats and lots of water and it took about a month to normalize his gut. If he gets anything other than this, he has problems right away. Just a very sensitive tummy.

The only other thing I'd do is, if he's free range, start checking your baseboards, carpet corners, closets, etc. Anywhere that Billy could be eating non-nutritive fibers because he's not eating hay...bunnies with tummy trouble will often look for other sources of fiber. Even cardboard. It'd be good to be sure the ingesta in the xray is actually not some part of your household. :shock:

Also, do you have anything like Infacol there? (drug name simethicone, an anti-gas agent, you may be able to get a pharmacy/chemist to compound some for you if you can't find it at your grocery, plus you'll have to be certain there is no xylitol or xylitol like ingredients in it as this is a poisonous sweetener to animals) This is a must have for my bunny emergency kits as it's often gas that will stop mine eating altogether. Considering how inflated Billy was, he just may have trouble eliminating wind. And how active is he? Running around is definitely better for bunny's tummy than just sitting still. It does sound like he gets a bit of exercise though.

I can imagine this is all very exhausting for both of you. I really hope the cause of Billy's trouble can be isolated and sorted. xx
 
MimzMum said:
I admit, these directions from your vet made my eyebrows go up.
I have heard from time to time a vet prescribing hairball meds for bunnies, but neither that nor Vaseline is an appropriate thing for a rabbit to ingest in my experience. I've taken from your posts that your vet isn't particularly savvy on exotics?
I agree that things like papaya and pineapple really don't benefit as much as we'd like due to their sugar content. But I empathize on having a bun who has fur issues and doesn't like hay much. Mimzy is very much like this now since his tilt, panics at being groomed and only likes mature oat hay which, while a great source of fiber and yummy (to bunnies) is a bit heavy and dry and since he doesn't drink a lot of water it really backs things up internally. :(
What kind of greens does Billy like if any? And how goes the limiting of pellets? I had to almost completely wipe pellets from my rabbits' diets as they caused all sorts of issues. Mimzy only gets an 8th of a teaspoon in the evening to keep his weight up. They are fattening for some bunnies.
Do you feed him any wild forage at all? Sometimes bunnies who aren't keen on hay like the wilder plants like plantain, strawberry or bramble leaves, etc. (not sure how many of these you'll find in your location and they have to be pesticide free)
When my mini rex, Fiver, had trouble with his cecum his vet put him on strictly timothy hay, no treats and lots of water and it took about a month to normalize his gut. If he gets anything other than this, he has problems right away. Just a very sensitive tummy.

The only other thing I'd do is, if he's free range, start checking your baseboards, carpet corners, closets, etc. Anywhere that Billy could be eating non-nutritive fibers because he's not eating hay...bunnies with tummy trouble will often look for other sources of fiber. Even cardboard. It'd be good to be sure the ingesta in the xray is actually not some part of your household. :shock:

Also, do you have anything like Infacol there? (drug name simethicone, an anti-gas agent, you may be able to get a pharmacy/chemist to compound some for you if you can't find it at your grocery, plus you'll have to be certain there is no xylitol or xylitol like ingredients in it as this is a poisonous sweetener to animals) This is a must have for my bunny emergency kits as it's often gas that will stop mine eating altogether. Considering how inflated Billy was, he just may have trouble eliminating wind. And how active is he? Running around is definitely better for bunny's tummy than just sitting still. It does sound like he gets a bit of exercise though.

I can imagine this is all very exhausting for both of you. I really hope the cause of Billy's trouble can be isolated and sorted. xx
Click to expand...

She is rabbit-savvy, she is actually the one teaching the course on exotics at the vet university, so I assume she knows what she is doing ;)
The exotic animal course isn't mandatory here, and there aren't many exotic pets either (when you say rabbit here, most people think "dinner" and not "pet") so very few vets take it. There has been a recent surge of exotic pets as of late, rabbits, ferrets, etc...so that lack of specialized vets might change soon.

He is getting simethicone for the gas yes, 3 times a day. He used to eat cardboard a year ago...but it was a thing of playing and just plain destroying for fun that lack of fiber. He never chews or destroys anything, he is a well mannered bun =P

I would say he does eat a lot of fiber, but still might not be enough to wipe his gut clean of fur fast enough. Limiting his pellets to a minimum made him eat a lot more hay, tried eliminating it all together but it seemed he had reached his "hay limit" as he still wouldn't eat more hay after that (or if he did, it wasn't noticeable).

I think that the part you bolded is my vets response to "well, if he isn't eating more hey, lets try to help him in some other way"...but yeah...I know what you mean, I have the med here but I am not so keen on giving it to him myself to be honest. Guess it's just like with human doctors, you can't take everything they say as some absolute truth, you need to weight in your own instincts too in the matter.

The change from meloxicam to ibuprofen was spot on though, he is sooooo much better now, and he has started running around all over the place again (I even caught a glimpse of a binky this morning), so as long as he stays medicated with analgesics, his body will be able to resume his normal functions again as he starts eliminating all that gas (which is likely the gas from the bloat, which is making a very painful trip trying to get out).
 
What a day...I just found a lump on Billy's back side of the jaw...PERFECT.
It moves with the skin, so it's not dental. Trying to contact the vet but it's late already and might have to wait till tomorrow.
 
Oh dear :( Sending vibes that whatever it is, it's not serious and can be easily sorted. ((((((((Billy)))))))) xxxx
 
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