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Advice or thoughts about our poorly elderly bunny please

littlebears

New Kit
Hi,

We have an elderly bunny who we got from a rescue when he was three, he is now ten and a half.
To give some background about him, he was bonded at the rescue and lived a long happy life with his bunny wife, who passed away aged eight and a bit.
He is a house bunny, always has been since he has been with us.
He has had dental problems ever since we got him. He is insured and has had work done at the vets whenever needed throughout his life to try and make his teeth better.
We are so glad he has had a good life for so long.

For months now he has had an abcess on his jaw. Because of his age we discussed with the vet and didn't think major surgery was the right option.
He has carried on eating, quite happily, most of the time.

He went for a dental last week, because I just felt that his abcess had become so much bigger, and that if his teeth were treated/burred, this would make it more comfortable in his mouth.
Before the dental, he was eating. Afterwards, he wouldn't eat much on his own. He's always been a fussy eater, and he goes through times of not eating.
We tried everything that he likes, his favourites, and he picked a little at bits but nowhere near enough.
So we took the option of him going into hospital, where he had round the clock care for just over two days and nights.
He ate very little there of his own accord but obviously was supported with fluids and syringe feeding.
We wondered if, after this support, if he came home in the warmth and quiet, he would start eating again.

Now he has been back home a couple of days and is eating hardly anything on his own, though occasionally he is eating one or two bits.
We are syringe feeding him critical care, and he is on depocillin, zantax and loxicom.

He seems really fed up of the syringe feeding.

It's so hard to know what the right thing to do is.
When his bunny wife left us, she seemed very poorly and it felt, though it was very sad and upsetting, as though she was telling us what she needed us to do, that she wasn't happy anymore.
With him now, I'm not sure if he's telling us or not...

How do you know what to do, when to do it?
Myself and my partner are both in tears and don't know what to do for the best.
We don't want to lose him because it is heartbreaking but we don't want to prolong his life if he doesn't want us to. We want to do the right thing for him.

I haven't visited for a long time, but I am very appreciative that this forum is here. I know we have to make the decision ourselves together with the vet but I just was looking for any other thoughts or advice from people who may have been through similar.

We have got another appointment with the vet tonight.

Thank you.
 
Sorry, I really don't know what to say as I have no experience in this area. I hope someone will see your post and be able to offer you some advice. I can imagine that, yes, you are in tears - I would be too.
 
I think it may be that he is now in more pain from the abscess, especially if the infection is now in the actual jaw bone too (osteomyelitis) :cry:
Also, his major organ function may not be great. Did the Vet run a blood profile when he was an inpatient ?

What dose of Loxicom is he on ?

Obviously I cant say what the right thing to do is, only you and your Vet can do that. But I firmly believe that the most important thing for a Rabbit is quality of life rather than quantity. If a chronic condition worsens and pain cannot be controlled then I feel it may be time to talk about letting the Rabbit go. However, if additional medication or increased doses of current medication can bring about an improvement as far as pain control goes then it can be appropriate to persevere. Not with any expectation of a cure, but taking things one day at a time and knowing that ultimately we will need to make 'the decision'. It is better to say goodbye one day too soon, than one day too late meaning the Rabbit would be suffering a lot.

I am so sorry that you are facing the sort of situation we all dread, but we all know we will have to endure. It is the price we pay for all our Rabbits give us during their life xx
 
Im sorry, its a really hard decision to make but if you feel that your bunny has reached the end of his comfortable life then you can make the decision to let him have a peaceful end knowing that you have done everything possible and given him a lovely life. Im so sorry for you. Have you asked the vet what his prognosis is? I think you should have a frank and honest discussion with your vet about whether PTS is the right decision. My equestrian vet told me that if treatment options were available they were not allowed to bring up euthanasia as an option unless the client did, and then they would discuss it. I assume thats the same with small animal vets.

I have had to have this decision twice about two of my horses in recent years with both cases there was an option of further treatment but both were very old horses and with a poor prognosis on the treatment I decided it was not fair for both animals. One was 2008 and one was 2010 and I still miss them.

Its hard but its easier for the vet if you can be straight with them and tell them what you are thinking. My vet said it was good to deal with me because I am so sensible about the horses, (well thats what he thinks, actually Im a sobbing mess but i dont let him see that!!)

Good luck. you will make the right decision what ever it is.
 
I have just had this exact problem with a bunny of mine. The decision was sadly made easy for me for another reason but I know exactly what you're going through.

Could you tell me what medication your bunny is on right now? And like Jane said, how much painkiller and how often?

With Smoo, we gave her injections of penicillin at home and it had no effect on her abscesses. The painkillers were the most important and depending on the weight of your bunny you might be able to discuss with the vet upping the dose and giving it more often (i.e. twice a day). Recent research suggests that rabbits metabolise the painkillers so quickly is is safe and actually better to give them more.

What do you feed you bunny? When they have teeth issues, sometimes eating hay becomes too painful. Smoo shared her food with a very dental bunny so they had excel pellets soaked in cold water for five minutes which swelled up and became soft. She had these unlimited so she could always eat something that wasn't painful and this seemed to avoid any stasis. To encourage her to eat more fibre I would give her fresh hawthorn and plantain which she saw as a treat but were actually great for her stomach. Bramble works too. I also used to give her willow which is a natural painkiller. I don't know if that helped but she loved it. So basically I stayed away from veg and gave fresh forage.

I hope some of that helps.
 
A horrible decision to make :( We faced it with our last dog but fortunately for us our vets are very forthcoming and discussions with them were on going. Our vet said that while Tessa was fighting he wouldn't even consider pts. She died at home in our arms 2 hours before we were going to pts but I can really relate to your problem. I personally think if you have any doubts now is the time to speak to the vet as you know your pet best. xxxx
 
Sorry you have to make such a hard decision, i have no advice but am thinking of you.

Your bunny has clearly had a wonderful life and whatever you decide please take comfort in that.x.
 
I feel for you, I really do. I recently had to make a similar decision for my elderly 10.5 year old bunny, Flora. She had virtually lost the use of her back legs so whilst there was absolutely nothing wrong with the front end, she kept falling over and got so distressed when she couldn't get back up again. I tried everything to make life easier for her but after staying awake through the night once, popping her back onto her feet every half hour or so, I realised this was no way to live. She was distressed and looking vulnerable and stopped wanting to go out in the garden. That's when I knew. She loved hopping around the garden, even when her mobility wasn't great. She'd still go for a scoot round to nibble the grass. Her time spent on the lawn got shorter and shorter (her decision, not mine) until finally, she wouldn't leave her shed. That's when I knew. It was a really hard decision to make, given that from the shoulders up, she was like a bunny half her age.

Whatever you decide, it will be a decision from the heart and with the best of intentions so please try not to beat yourself up about it. Thinking of you.
 
Oh you poor thing, I too know how you feel. When Bill became so ill it was so hard to even think about being without him. I think a chat with youir vet tonight may be useful. You will have so many people thinking of you this evening who have been in the exact same position. Sending you and your bun a big hug.
 
Thank you so very much for all of your kind and thoughtful replies.
He has just had a little gentle hop around the living room but still not eaten. He moves ok but quite slowly and it's not very often that he moves around at all now.
To answer your questions, he has never eaten hay. He is on Loxicom once a day, Depocilin once a day and Zantac twice a day.
I will try some of his dry food (science selective) softened with water in another bowl and see if he is interested. We used to always do this, though then he started showing interest in the hard pellets again.
We are booked with the vet later and will discuss what we all think.
I just want to do the right thing.
I think and hope that he has had a good happy safe life with us at least.

Thank you x
 
Thank you so very much for all of your kind and thoughtful replies.
He has just had a little gentle hop around the living room but still not eaten. He moves ok but quite slowly and it's not very often that he moves around at all now.
To answer your questions, he has never eaten hay. He is on Loxicom once a day, Depocilin once a day and Zantac twice a day.
I will try some of his dry food (science selective) softened with water in another bowl and see if he is interested. We used to always do this, though then he started showing interest in the hard pellets again.
We are booked with the vet later and will discuss what we all think.
I just want to do the right thing.
I think and hope that he has had a good happy safe life with us at least.

Thank you x

It sounds as though you have given him a very caring home and I am sure that whatever decision you make for him now will be the right one xx
 
Just a thought, have you tried porridge made with water and cooled?

I know it's not ideal at all, but my bunny Poppy who passed away earlier this year was a dental bun and we went through many periods of not eating over the years. Porridge with banana or raisins was a favourite of hers (which she got a lot in her last few weeks :oops:) and was the thing she would sometimes have a little nibble at when all else failed.

I really feel for you, having a bunny not eating is just so stresful.x.x.
 
Awww so many lovely responses here and I think just to know you are not alone in this and have support speaks tons of the fab work this forum does:D

I have had several bunnies in their twilight years that I have had to make the decision for and it's strange how sometimes you just know the right time.

One of the bunsters a beautiful girl Buffy had jaw abscess problems and I used to do her a carrot mash with mashed fennel and you can also speak in meds and critical care etc - even when she struggled to eat anything else she loved her mash and it helped keep her weight up too.

Hope this helps xxxxx
 
Sometimes it can be painful after a dental -

have you had the vet re-check the mouth to ensure everything is ok? Sometimes they can bite their own tongues when coming round or some such.

I would try a different stronger pain relief (not bupronorphine as that will slow eating) to ensure its not a pain issue before making any other decisions

I see you are in Cambs so assume you are at the rabbit savvy vets there and that the exotics specialist did the dental?
 
Just a thought when Doughnut was really ill and was on loxicom the specialist split it into 3 doses as after 12 hours it is out of the bunnies system. Maybe you could try that as after 12 hours your bunny is probably in pain again so wouldn't want to eat.

I'm certainly not saying this is the answer but maybe worth a try to see if he picks up. She is just over 1kg and was on 0.2ml 3 times a day. Maybe discuss this with your vets.

Good luck. I too don't think you should prolong your rabbits life if it is in pain but really hope that getting the medicine right will keep him painfree with maybe another year or two with you, since he is obviously well loved.

Keep us posted.
 
Sometimes it can be painful after a dental -

have you had the vet re-check the mouth to ensure everything is ok? Sometimes they can bite their own tongues when coming round or some such.

I would try a different stronger pain relief (not bupronorphine as that will slow eating) to ensure its not a pain issue before making any other decisions

I see you are in Cambs so assume you are at the rabbit savvy vets there and that the exotics specialist did the dental?

We are not in Cambridge itself, a bit outside, so not sure which one you mean.
Thanks for the suggestion about pain relief, we are going to ask about this tonight.
 
Just a thought when Doughnut was really ill and was on loxicom the specialist split it into 3 doses as after 12 hours it is out of the bunnies system. Maybe you could try that as after 12 hours your bunny is probably in pain again so wouldn't want to eat.

I'm certainly not saying this is the answer but maybe worth a try to see if he picks up. She is just over 1kg and was on 0.2ml 3 times a day. Maybe discuss this with your vets.

Good luck. I too don't think you should prolong your rabbits life if it is in pain but really hope that getting the medicine right will keep him painfree with maybe another year or two with you, since he is obviously well loved.

Keep us posted.

Thanks for your thoughts about the loxicom, we are only doing it once a day so we are going to ask tonight about whether twice a day might be good to try.

Thank you.
 
We are not in Cambridge itself, a bit outside, so not sure which one you mean.
Thanks for the suggestion about pain relief, we are going to ask about this tonight.

Cambridge vet group on Cherry Hinton Rd

Rabbit and exotic specialists and referral vets -

Jill Pearson and Ian Cope both good - 01223 249331

Just in case you want a second opinion on the issues - there are other pain relief methods. Also dentals can accidentally cause other issues with tongue, jaw hinge or even fractures in elderly buns.
 
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