Poopy Butt - advice needed!

Hello,

I have a 2 year old mini lop rabbit that is suffering from poopy butt! every day I am cleaning his plastic shelf in his cage and attempting to wash him as he is covered in his own poo and its very smelly. I took him to the vets as I was starting to get concerned and they checked him out and said he was healthy in himself. They suggested I tried a new food but my rabbit is incredibly fussy and does not even eat his hay! whatever variety I buy he will not touch it, my other rabbit eats it all. The vet cleaned him up for me as I was struggling to get him completely clean myself at home. I mixed the new food with his original food and for the most part he picked out the bits he liked! he is still no better and is getting himself in a right state. I feel I should probably take him back to the vet but last time they did say he was healthy and fine in himself. So I thought I would seek advice from others who have experienced this to see what I can do myself to control this and if it doesnt work I will of course take him back to the vet.

Looking forward to your advice!

Many thanks.

What amounts of pellets are you feeding him? It sounds like he is getting too many pellets or muesli or veg. He won't eat his hay if he is filling up on pellets.

You shouldn't ever see the smelly poop as rabbits eat it straight from their bum. If you see it it normally means that he is eating too much protein and needs more hay in his diet.

Just a handful a day now which he is eating pretty quick. I then feel bad that he is hungry but I am not giving him anymore than the recommended daily amount. he is such a fussy rabbit, he is reluctant to eat pretty much anything besides his pellets! I have perhaps in the past fed him too much because I was worried he would be hungry but I am being really strict on that now. it did improve for a couple of days but now it seems to be bad again. I tried to wash him this evening but its not easy on my own. Iv got most of it out and have cut the clumps from him. do you think if he gets hungry he will just learn to love his hay? I never used to see the smelly poops but now I am way to familiar with them! it can't be comfortable for him and he hates me having to wash him i just want to make him better so am after any ideas to test this week and if no better by next weekend I will take him back to the vets.

Hi there,
Is your bun overweight? Maybe he can't reach easily to eat the cecals and that's why he is getting a bit dirty.
I have a similar problem with one of my buns, my vet said he was only slightly overweight and he is on reduced pellets now, and he does eat lots of hay, but still somehow manages to get a dirty bum, even though I do see him reaching down to eat his cecals.
But, I recently adopted a bun and the RSPCA had said to me they had given her towels for bedding rather than hay as "she wasn't keeping herself clean on the hay", I didn't question this at the time, and I don't really understand this now as she seems to keep herself clean, but maybe it's worth a try.
Hope you get sorted x

They weighed him when I took him to the vets and they never said he was overweight and I have also seen him eat the cecals or at least washing himself so I know he can reach... I can't say I'd blame him if he didn't try given how smelly it can get! he still binkys about and is generally fine in himself I think the only logical explanation is his diet. If I could just get him to eat some hay! I have tried different types but no joy. I will try putting some towels down to see if that at least helps with the mess, thank you. His fur just gets so clumpy and smelly. As I say I did try to cut most of it tonight and brush through it x

Did the vet test a fecal sample for parasites as a cause for the mushy poop, or check the molars for sharp points as a cause for your bun not wanting to eat hay?

If parasites aren't the cause of the mushy poop, then it sounds like cecal dysbiosis, which is caused by an imbalance of bad bacteria in the cecum, and is also why the mushy poop stinks so bad and why they don't eat them like they normally would. It is usually caused by too many sugars and carbs in the diet and/or not enough fiber. Since your rabbit doesn't eat hay, that is probably why it is happening. Unfortunately, really the only way to get the poopy bum cleared up is by increasing a rabbits fiber intake, and sometimes decreasing the sugars and carbs, either from eliminating treats and/or possibly reducing pellet amounts. But the eating hay is an essential part. Does he eat fresh grass at all? Have you tried different varieties of hay to see if he may like a different kind? If the lack of hay eating isn't caused by a problem with his teeth and you've tried other varieties without success, if grass hay pellets are available to you, that is an alternative that might work for your rabbit. They are just a plain pellet made only from hay with nothing else added, and are usually sold in large bags as a feed for horses or other livestock. I have a rabbit that had never been fed hay, and when I first got him he wouldn't touch it. He developed digestive problems and I had to find a way to get him to eat hay, so I tried these hay pellets and he ate them right away. Gradually over the next few months, he started nibbling on his hay and is now a good hay eater. So if you can get a hold of the hay pellets they may be worth a try. ETA: I see that you have tried different varieties of hay.

http://www.sawneeanimalclinic.com/downloads/chronic_intermittent_diarrhea_in_rabbits.pdf

he was fully checked over at the vets and I said he didn't eat any hay and the vet did check his mouth and said all was fine, this was a couple of weeks ago now though. I haven't heard of grass hay pellets before.... that could work. I have cut all treats out as every time he was fed them I would normally be greeted the next morning with an unpleasant mess. I will try and see if I can track down these pellets and test them this week and if still no better I will take him back to the vets. they never tested a fecal sample last time. So will this grass hay pellets be for horses and other livestock but okay to feed my rabbit I presume? I will try and buy some tomorrow. I feel awful taking out his treats and reducing his pellets like I am starving him but I know he really needs to learn to love his hay!

You mention treats - what are you giving him? What pellets does he have?

I suggest a sample pack of hay from HayforPets (free). You will have to persevere with the hay though as, given a choice, rabbits would fill up on pellets and treats.

They should be fine to feed to your bun as long as they are good quality. All they are is normal hay compacted into pellets, like rabbit food but without other added ingredients. They may also be a little larger size of pellet. Usually they are found at shops where they sell other livestock feed and supplies. You may want to call first to make sure they have what you are looking for.

If he takes to these hay pellets, it might actually make him a bit happier, as he will have more food to eat all day and not just his usual food. Loose hay is better and should still be encouraged, but the hay pellets can at least be something to help his diet until you can figure out how to get him eating the loose hay.

It would be something like this.
http://www.farmandpetplace.co.uk/products/equine/horse-feed/hay-replacer/graze-on-grass-pellets-20kg.html

Any change in his diet (apart from increasing hay) should be done very gradually as any sudden change can upset the digestive system.

I try to feed him his daily veg and I was giving him a couple of rabbit chocolate bunnys before bed as a treat but I have completely stopped this as it wasnt helping (my other rabbit is absolutely fine) I am a bit reluctant to know what veg to feed him as i know its important to his diet but it seems to make matters worse. He is currently eating a mixture of pellets - Selective Rabbit Food (he was fed the junior range for a while and when I went to change this as he got older to the adult selective rabbit food the lady at the pet shop told me that there was no need to bother changing it and he could stay fed on the junior food. I recently weaned him off of this and on to the adult range as I thought this might have something to do with it and I think its too early to tell whether its helping) and Burgess Excel Tasty Nuggets (high in beneficial fiber according to the packet) and this was recommended by my vet. he does seem to just pick out his usual pellets though and only really eating the vets recommendation by accident. I love my bunny but he is so picky about his food! I have just seen there are a few pellets left in his bowl so I have put a small handful of hay in it so he will need to go through that to get to his pellets (he immediately stuck his nose up at it and hopped away) but I figured this would be an easier way of seeing whether he actually eats any as its difficult to tell if its even been touched from the hay rack unless I actually see his eat it (which I never have).

thank you, I shall have a look at hayforpets. and yes I will persevere with the hay! I know he has to eat it I just havent worked out how to make him. I try new hay every time I run out and my other bunny eats anything whereas this one isnt so keen.

I have looked on the website for my local pet shops with no luck of grass hay pellets, may need to call about tomorrow and trek further afield. anything to help him it cannot be comfortable for him.

thanks for all your advice so far x

chocolate buttons not chocolate bunnys**

Instead of commercial treats, which are usually full of sugar, you could try herbs - mine love sage, basil, thyme. Have you tried putting hay in the litter trays?

Mine are very good hay eaters (although won't touch any petshop hays) - but they only have an eggcupful of pellets each a day.

There are a few ways of encouraging bunnies to eat more hay- chopping it up, spraying it with apple juice, trying different varieties. The sample packs from the hay experts are a good idea also timothyhay.co.uk will send out a free sample to you - there's a thread on here somewhere about it. Will he eat grass, if you pull it from the ground and give him a bowl?

Honestly if he is not touching hay or grass at all it sounds like a dental problem to me. Did the vet check his front teeth or back teeth too? Perhaps he needs an xray to work out the full extent of the problem. If his back teeth are misaligned it may be a case of can't eat hay rather than won't. I have tried everything with Ash (my dental bun) and nothing. She genuinely tries to eat it but I don't think she can.

If he is only having a handful of pellets per day and not eating anything at all in between he is at risk of going into stasis. With dental bunnies no matter how much you reduce their pellets sometimes they just will not eat hay and would rather starve or go into stasis.

You can try foods that are a bit higher in fibre and designed for rabbits with issues such as fibafirst or vetcare plus digestive formula which may help, if he will eat them. Oxbow bunny basics food is quite good as well as it is actually made with timothy hay. I can send you a small sample of any of these if you like. :wave:

There has already been everything I would suggest mentioned, however I would like to add that changing from junior to adult pellets was a good choice. Junior pellets have more protein/calories than adult rabbits usually need and this could contribute to existing problems.

You say the vet did a thorough check, however usual checks won't involve taking a fecal sample, or a thorough look at back teeth (X-ray is the ONLY way to get a definite answer as to whether there are problems in the mouth, despite signs showing on teeth further forward quite often), so I would recommend a sample of poo being checked, then if nothing comes back and he is otherwise well, a dental X-ray.

Try 'treats' of natural real herbs rather than anything bought. Cut out any excell pellets (they often lead to excess caecal pellets) and go over to adult science selective - less than a handfull a day.

Try and get some really good hay and add some hand pulled grass or chopped herbs into it.

NO fruit or shop bought veg or shop bought treats.

Keep with that for a month and see if there is an improvement.

PS what SIZE is his cage (height as well as depth etc -has he plenty of room to periscope, hop around etc - as maintaining mobility is vital to being flexible enough and slim enough to eat caecal pellets as they come out. The pellets are mainly eaten in evening/night and so if he is stuck in a cage thats too small at night he may not be able to easily access them.

Might also be worth trying him on a forage diet if he won't eat hay? If you can get hold of bramble or hawthorn leaves or apple and pear bark and leaves and try him on those (one at a time and only a little bit so as not to upset his tummy). Eating a forage diet will take the place of the hay and could actually give him more fibre than hay.

Thank you all so much for this advice! going to test all of it this week and if no change I will take him back to the vet and ask for a fecal sample and an xray to check his teeth because I think if its not his diet then it sounds like it could be a problem with his teeth. he is a house bunny and has a room to himself which he will be free to run around in. I have to male rabbits so has to be one out at a time unless I am home to supervise in which case they have the whole downstairs of my house to run around in so they definitely get the exercise they need. I am going to find some grass hay pellets today, some fresh hay rather than pet shop bought, will buy some herbs and some grass and put them all together in his hay rack (which is next to his litter tray) this morning there is no poop to clean but I have just given him his small handful of pellets (just the Selective Rabbit Food) and he is eating that so I may have a mess to clean up this afternoon. Any further advise is most welcome to test this week and no progress, back to the vets.

Just thought I would let everyone know, I had a very bad night with my Bun and just had to take him back to the vets to at least be cleaned up properly! he was checked over from head to toe, he was prodded and poked and had everything checked and double checked... he is perfectly healthy, perfect weight, perfect teeth and generally a very happy rabbit. he is just incredibly fussy with his meals! he has been cleaned up and since bringing him home he seems to have made a little progress! just trying to get him to learn to love his hay but its a peace of mind knowing he is healthy and happy thanks for all your advice x