New bunny - your thoughts?

Ok, so I got myself a lovely mini lop last night, a 2 year old black buck whom I've named Blackavar after my favourite rabbit in Watership Down. My intention is to bond him with Slipper eventually, but we have some work to do first. Probably no point to this post, other than that I feel guilty and not sure what to do for the best.

He has been a stud buck and BRC rung. He has the ring left on his hind leg - should I get it removed? I think so as his owners told me it may get embedded in his leg as he grows, although he's fully grown?

I'm going to get him vaccinated and neutered as soon as he's settled in as I don't want to stress him out too much coming to a new home with new people, new bunnies etc etc. I think 2-3 weeks before vaccinations and then book him in for neutering after that. I will also get him insured when this done as it's cheaper to insure a neutered, vaccinated bun and I don't think they insure if they're not vaccinated. Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

He's on museli, so I fed him last night on his current food (I got changeover food) and probably tonight too as he didn't really eat much last night, understandably, new home and car journey etc. Then I will start switching him over to the pellets mine are all on.

But what I feel really bad about is that he's outdoors. He lived outdoors his whole life with his previous owners, but mine are indoors and I feel guilty with mine indoors and him stuck outside. I'm getting a new cage sorted for Slipper and once that's done, he can come inside and have Slipper's old cage until they're bonded and can live together in Slipper's big new cage. Also, he's got a run attached to his cage by a ladder ramp thing - it's one of these double decker things a friend at work kindly donated to me as she didn't need it and wanted rid of it. He hasn't figured it out yet. I put him in his cage last night and I don't think he's been in the run over night. So I got up this morning and put him in the attached run, but I keep checking on him and he's just huddled up in a corner. He was exploring this morning, but just sat there now. I don't think he's been up the ramp yet back into his hutch. How do you think I should get him to go up and down? Or will he just figure it out?

He doesn't have any toys yet, just a big hay tube thing he can run through and eat too. Mine love theirs, but he doesn't seem bothered. He also doesn't seem to have touched his hay yet.

I know I'm probably being a big worry-guts, but I've never got an older rabbit before - I've always had babies and they've been inquisitive and bouncy after a bit. I guess he could also be missing his mate - apparently she died last month which is why this guy was up for sale. He's happy for me to pet him, but doesn't like being picked up - typical bunny really. He didn't like being lifted out of his carry case into his hutch and didn't like being put in his run, which is why I'd like him to use the ramp as and when he pleases. Kind of defeats the point of an attached run if I have to put him in it/take him out of it!

Hi, I'd keep him on his original food for a week if poss, then very gradually start to change him onto the new food. Is he eating at all? Maybe try tempting him with some dandelions, but I suppose you will need to be careful not to upset his tummy,because he might not have had any greens before.

Is the ramp to the run made of wood with wooden grip slats on it? Sometimes they're quite steep which can be unnerving, putting a brick under the bottom of it makes it less steep.

Maybe the vet can remove the ring when he is neutered.

I would maybe leave the new cage as neutral territory and not put anybun in it until you've bonded slipper and blackavar.

Are all 4 going to be inside buns eventually? Just thinking once it gets any colder you wouldn't be able to bring anybun inside and then put it back out, with the change in temperature. Hopefully he won't be alone for too much longer :thumb:

Zoobec said:

Hi, I'd keep him on his original food for a week if poss, then very gradually start to change him onto the new food. Is he eating at all? Maybe try tempting him with some dandelions, but I suppose you will need to be careful not to upset his tummy,because he might not have had any greens before.

Is the ramp to the run made of wood with wooden grip slats on it? Sometimes they're quite steep which can be unnerving, putting a brick under the bottom of it makes it less steep.

Maybe the vet can remove the ring when he is neutered.

I would maybe leave the new cage as neutral territory and not put anybun in it until you've bonded slipper and blackavar.

Are all 4 going to be inside buns eventually? Just thinking once it gets any colder you wouldn't be able to bring anybun inside and then put it back out, with the change in temperature. Hopefully he won't be alone for too much longer :thumb:

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He hasn't touched his food at all yet It's pitch black outside now so good luck spotting him now, but I will check on him tomorrow obviously and then try and coax him with food if he's not touched it. Obviously I don't want him to starve to death. He hadn't touched his water bottle either actually. Will check on that tomorrow too. If he hasn't touched his water either, do you think I should take him to the vets to check him over? I don't want to unsettle him more than I have to as that won't help him. Plus it would have to be the emergency vet as mine isn't open, but that can't be helped. If bunnies are sick, they need vets, simple as. Just thought, he looked so down and depressed earlier that I took mine out to have a look at him so although they weren't all together they were close enough to see each other and he seemed to chill out a bit. Mine are all vaccinated, but if he's ill, could he have passed something onto them? They're all their usual bouncy selves, but obviously it would take a while for something to appear off.

Yes, it's one of those wooden board things with wooden raised bits across them for stairs. By the brick, do you mean rest the bottom of the ladder on the brick to raise it a bit? I have a spare brick knocking about actually so I could do that.

My other three are all indoor bunnies, it's just Blackavar that's outside. I prefer having indoor bunnies as I can interact more with them and spend more time with them. I feel it makes them friendlier too as even when you're not playing with them, you're in the same room as them so they get to see you going about your daily life. Whereas poor outdoor bunnies don't get that. I'm not knocking people with outdoor buns, that's just my opinion, knowing my experience with indoor/outdoor bunnies and that I hate the cold so when it's freezing I won't be spending much time out there. Hence why I want him indoors with me asap. I know he's been outdoors his whole life, but I just feel guilty leaving him out there whilst my three are tucked up in my cosy living room with us.

I know what you mean re indoor and outdoor rabbits. If my lovely bunch could have as much space (and separation from the dogs) indoors I would love that.

You could try Blackavar with a bowl for his water. He may just be shy eating with you around??? Hope he has had a good old feed tonight and saved you a vet trip.

ask the vet to remove the ring when he is neutered, less stress, he wont know a thing

How is he doing today?

I've been out to him today, I feel terrible that I left his water bottle in his run and not put it on his cage. I know he can get to it if he goes down his ramp, but as he doesn't yet, I feel really bad He has had a good drink of it when I put it back in so at least he has had a drink now. He was ignoring it all yesterday.

Re the water bowl - when I brought him home, I remembered that my spare water bottle is spare as the spout on it is broken (courtesy of Slipper knocking it over :roll and I haven't fixed it yet so he had a water bowl until I got to the pet store yesterday morning and I don't think it he touched that either.

He has not touched his food at all, nor his hay or any of the treats I have tried giving him. He seems otherwise fine, happy to let me stroke him and fuss him, but not eating, which I'm quite worried about obviously. My OH says he might be cold as he has only has sawdust in his hutch so I'm going to the pet shop later and buy him some straw as some extra thick bedding and one of those thermal hutch cover thingies. Going to have to be a savings jobbie as it's £100 on its own, but it can't be helped, if it helps him then it's money well spent

I'm not sure what to do for the best - do I give him another day and try the cover and extra straw bedding and hope he eats, or do I take him to emergency vets now? He seems ok, just a bit down and subdued which I would imagine is normal for a bunny missing his mate and moving to a new home? In case I didn't put it before, his mate apparently died last month which is why he was up for sale and I have him as a lone bunny, not because I just wanted one and split up a bonded pair.

Sarah1989 said:

I've been out to him today, I feel terrible that I left his water bottle in his run and not put it on his cage. I know he can get to it if he goes down his ramp, but as he doesn't yet, I feel really bad He has had a good drink of it when I put it back in so at least he has had a drink now. He was ignoring it all yesterday.

Re the water bowl - when I brought him home, I remembered that my spare water bottle is spare as the spout on it is broken (courtesy of Slipper knocking it over :roll and I haven't fixed it yet so he had a water bowl until I got to the pet store yesterday morning and I don't think it he touched that either.

He has not touched his food at all, nor his hay or any of the treats I have tried giving him. He seems otherwise fine, happy to let me stroke him and fuss him, but not eating, which I'm quite worried about obviously. My OH says he might be cold as he has only has sawdust in his hutch so I'm going to the pet shop later and buy him some straw as some extra thick bedding and one of those thermal hutch cover thingies. Going to have to be a savings jobbie as it's £100 on its own, but it can't be helped, if it helps him then it's money well spent

I'm not sure what to do for the best - do I give him another day and try the cover and extra straw bedding and hope he eats, or do I take him to emergency vets now? He seems ok, just a bit down and subdued which I would imagine is normal for a bunny missing his mate and moving to a new home? In case I didn't put it before, his mate apparently died last month which is why he was up for sale and I have him as a lone bunny, not because I just wanted one and split up a bonded pair.

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I would personally take him to the vet now as he hasn't eaten or drank since you got him

Hope he's ok x

It sounds as if he's really struggling and does need to go to the vet. Was he outdoors before? It would be too cold to put him outside now if so - he won't have a winter coat/the right reserves of fat. Sawdust isn't great - I assume he has access to loads of hay? I'd be inclined to use that for bedding rather than straw - he needs loads of it to eat anyway. Sending vibes for the little boy.

A bunny that's not eaten for 12 hours is a proper veterinary emergency. Perhaps you could ask on here for a rabbit-savvy vet nearby and get him seen today?

Update

Ok, so I saw your replies on my phone whilst dropping the OH off at the pub roll so I came straight home and took him to my out of hours emergency vet (typical the road was closed today for the great yourkshire run so there was traffic everywhere and I had to a right long away around :roll Anyway, we got there and the vet had a look at him. She wasn't the one who saw Dexter which made me feel a bit better. The last time I had to do an emergency dash with a poorly bunny to that place was also on a Sunday morning/lunchime and I lost my gorgeous Dexy, so was having flashbacks which wasn't good.

Anyhow, she checked his teeth, heart rate and generally over. She says he's not dehydrated (thankfully, he was drinking this morning) and is probably also depressed/stressed over his hectic month with losing his mate and a new home etc. But she said his gut was quiet and quite slow. So he's had three injections - a metacam for pain relief from the muscle spasms, antibiotic so he doesn't get a septic gut and finally a gut stimulant. I've also got him a syringe and some liquid food so I need to give him the whole sachet every three hours between now and tomorrow morning as I need to take him to my vets tomorrow morning for them to check him over.

So I've come straight home, given him his first syringe feed and popped him back in his hutch. I feel so bad putting him back out there, but I did ask if I should bring him in and nurse him, but she said he should be ok as long as I can keep a close eye on him, which of course I will be doing.

Tinsel -

It sounds as if he's really struggling and does need to go to the vet. Was he outdoors before? It would be too cold to put him outside now if so - he won't have a winter coat/the right reserves of fat. Sawdust isn't great - I assume he has access to loads of hay? I'd be inclined to use that for bedding rather than straw - he needs loads of it to eat anyway. Sending vibes for the little boy.

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He has been an outdoor bunny all his life apparently, he in full moult as we speak and he was weighed whilst we were there - he is 1.6kg. So whilst I don't know how much a mini lop should weigh, I'm sure I remember reading that the lovely Doughnut is also a mini lop and weighs less than that. I would love to have him indoors, but don't have the space atm but will bring him in asap. I assume that bringing an outdoor bunny in during winter is not as bad as putting an indoor bunny outside? Obviously, if he gets worse and vets advise bringing him in, I will bring him in and keep him in my indoor run upstairs - not ideal, but I will do my best for him.

I am also off to the pet shop again this aft to get more hay and a thermal hutch covering. I was obviously going to get such things anyway, but this has made it urgent that I do it right now.

Will keep you posted on his progress and thank you so much to everyone who has helped me so far. Blackavar will also be very greatful! When he is better, I take some piccies and post them for you to see how lovely he is He was so good at the vets, no wriggling, no struggling and never batted an eyelid at all the needles. He's even eaten all his syring food without any complaints, seemed to enjoy it too the way he was chewing and licking the syringe

Your last post all sounds pretty good then, but personally if there was any way at all of bringing him in, then I would do so. He may well have enjoyed his syringe food so much because of the company and interaction with yourself, and if he is indoors with company and more going on, it may well serve as a distraction to how sad he is feeling over the lost of his partner, and then the stress of a move to a new home. It would also be so much easier for yourself to monitor him a lot closer if he is indoors with you, and it would save you feeling so bad about him being outdoors by himself.

i disagree. I think the rabbit having lived outside all his life would be far happier at the moment during all the things he has ever known changing to have one thing remain the same.
i do not think it would be fair to inflict the noises of a normal household upon him until he is eating well and starting to know his new owner. rabbits used for breeding often do not have a close relationship with humans-they are stock not pets--it may well be something he has to learn-and its kinder if a little slower.

once he is confident with owner- eating well and otherwise content then a move indoors would be ok if you choose that.

belgian2 said:

i disagree. I think the rabbit having lived outside all his life would be far happier at the moment during all the things he has ever known changing to have one thing remain the same.
i do not think it would be fair to inflict the noises of a normal household upon him until he is eating well and starting to know his new owner. rabbits used for breeding often do not have a close relationship with humans-they are stock not pets--it may well be something he has to learn-and its kinder if a little slower.

once he is confident with owner- eating well and otherwise content then a move indoors would be ok if you choose that.

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I agree. A bun whos only ever lived outside would find normal, everyday, household noises really stressful. Id wait until hes settled outside before thinking about turning him into an indoor bun.

I also took on a 2 year old ex stud bunny with a BRC ring a month ago. He wasn't eating either so I took him to the vet it turns out he had teeth problems. The vet removed his ring for me when she neutered him, she did it free of charge as she disliked the idea of them she said it took them ages to get it off. He is living indoors but when I first got him I kept him in the utility room as it was quieter and cooler in there for him as he had thicker fur than my indoor rabbits. He has since shed an awful lot so hopefully he won't get too hit when the heating is on and is now on pellets instead if the muesli he was on before. He is very settled now and is a very chilled bunny.

Confused_bun said:

I agree. A bun whos only ever lived outside would find normal, everyday, household noises really stressful. Id wait until hes settled outside before thinking about turning him into an indoor bun.

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I guess it all depends on the rabbit then, but to be honest I totally disagree with yourselves, and all the horrendously, traumatised buns that I have took on over the years that have previously lived outdoors, have all positively thrived with being bought indoors, and it has been an excellent start to their rehabilitation.

The last one I took on was so complex and traumatised he had spent 5 months hid up in the darkest corner of his hutch, and appearing to have given up pretty much on life. If I had done what you think is best, all he would have done was move one dark corner for another, and probably just started attacking me as I tried to interact with him.

Moving him indoors straight away though and with no hutch to hide in, but lots of hidey places such as bunny tents, tunnels that kind of thing, challenged his way of thinking and gave him new things to think about, and things to explore, and 2 days later I was able to post a video of a much happier bunny out in the middle of the room, thinking about entering his tunnel, and throwing some toys about, so he didn't find it stressful at all, in fact quite the opposite.

Sorry Sarah only just seen this post. Congratulations on your new bun but upset he's not doing so well. I missed the post where you said how much he weighs. When Doughnut was ill she went down to 1kg but now she is better she is 1.28kg, which I'm going to try and keep her at. She is very small though and most mini lops weigh more. You can feel if he is underweight by running your finger down his spine. You should feel a lot of padding, if you can feel the bone quite easily then he is underweight. I noticed I could feel Doughnut's spine quite easily at one point which was upsetting.

I can't advise as to whether to bring him in or not as I've only had Doughnut and she's always been indoors. At least you're doing all you can for him. I must admit I don't like the idea of one bunny being outside on his own but would you have anywhere quiet to put him anyway unless you bought him in for a bit and see if he perks up. It is easier to keep an eye on him and see how he's doing. He may start eating on his own once all the medicine kicks in.

glad to read you saw a vet that has done the correct things, hope he starts to perk up and eat for himself soon, could you put a teddy bear in his hutch, he may cuddle up to it may not, as others have said don't use woodshavings/sawdust

his weight sounds healthy the upper weight for a mini lop :wave: (ranges from about 1.3-1.6kg)

RogerRabbit999 said:

I guess it all depends on the rabbit then, but to be honest I totally disagree with yourselves, and all the horrendously, traumatised buns that I have took on over the years that have previously lived outdoors, have all positively thrived with being bought indoors, and it has been an excellent start to their rehabilitation

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Well i was basing it on my own buns, who i originally had as housebuns. One i got, who had only ever lived indoors and no household noises bothered her. The other bun had only ever lived outdoors and it took him 1-2months to get used to basic household noises (at first even the washing machine being on in a room the other side of the house panicked him half to death, as did tvs on fairly quietly in other rooms). Plenty of hiding spaces made no difference. It was a very stressful time for him, having to get used to household noises. Plus i think a severly traumatised bunny is completely different to a bun who is stressed by losing his mate and moving home.

Sorry for any typos im doing this on my phone.

Confused_bun said:

Well i was basing it on my own buns, who i originally had as housebuns. One i got, who had only ever lived indoors and no household noises bothered her. The other bun had only ever lived outdoors and it took him 1-2months to get used to basic household noises (at first even the washing machine being on in a room the other side of the house panicked him half to death, as did tvs on fairly quietly in other rooms). Plenty of hiding spaces made no difference. It was a very stressful time for him, having to get used to household noises. Plus i think a severly traumatised bunny is completely different to a bun who is stressed by losing his mate and moving home.

Sorry for any typos im doing this on my phone.

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Actually I've only just remembered as well that Bodger couldn't tolerate any noise at all, and still doesn't very well, and so he was housed in a room that used to be a study that was the furthest point from the lounge etc, and so he didn't actually have any noise to stress him out, so I see what you mean with all the usual household noise, tv etc, but fortunately he wasn't close to anything like that.