Crisis point :-(

As most of you probably know....Marnie has always been a Naughty Rabbit.

Recently though her naughtiness has moved into the territory of down right deliberately destructive. She goes out of her way to break/knock things over and pulls things off the tables to get at the wires/buttons

It's got to the point now where j has had enough.

Problem is though that they are free range house bunnies, and the layout of the house means we don't have a room they can have. The only thing we could do is keep them shut in the kitchen. But if they're shut in there for too long she gets up on the sides and deliberately knocks things off so they smash.

I've spent hundreds of pounds on toys which she totally ignores.....I've tried all sorts of things, from digging to throwing toys....none of which she's interested in.

I'm at my wits end, and j is swiftly reaching the end of his tether with her.......has anyone got any ideas at all?

Would she (they) be happier as outdoor Rabbits ?

I was going to ask this too.

Marnie sounds a very intelligent lady - a bit like my Gabriel. He was always up to no good when he wintered indoors. He is a lot happier outside - especially as he now gets some free range time in the garden.

Yes, I wonder whether they would be happier outside with a shed and run?

Jack's-Jane said:

Would she (they) be happier as outdoor Rabbits ?

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Originally I would have said no....she used to love people attention...but at the moment she doesn't seem to be interested in fussing at all.

Our garden also isn't suitable for the set up shed need. It's long, but thin, with js workshop at the end. There are also a lot of foxes around here.

More importantly though, with Maurices problems he really struggles in the cold so I think it would be detrimental to his health :-(

This may or may not help, but it sounds as though with them not being able to go outside it might just be worth giving it a try. I had much the same problem with one of my buns, and not only was he horrendously destructive but he was aggressive like I've never seen in a rabbit before, and I kind of reached breaking point when he then attacked and bit my daughter, just because she looked at him :shock:

It was at that point that I realised I either had to sort him out once and for all, or he would have to go back to the rescue he came from, because obviously my daughter was more important than him. I started searching on-line for ideas/advice, and the one thing that kept being mentioned was 'clicker training'.

I bought myself a clicker for £1 and a book of ebay called 'Clicking With Your Rabbit', and almost immediately I started to see a side to the bunny in my signature, Dipsy, that I had never seen before. It was like all of a sudden he had something to really think about and focus on, and he was being mentally challenged and stimulated, and because he was also such a naughty bunny, I'm wondering if your bun might benefit from something like this and that maybe she is also mentally unchallenged and bored, and so she does all these things to try and entertain herself.

Dipsy has all the toys, tunnels, big boxes, no end of things to play with, but I guess even these things are not actually mentally challenging though are they. I personally think that very naughty and sometimes even aggressive rabbits are actually like this because they are in fact the most intelligent of rabbits, and just need something in their life to really focus on.

Well, anyway, Dipsy didn't have to go back to the rescue and is no longer aggressive in any shape, and most days I spend about 20 mins with him and the clicker, and he absolutely thrives on it and has stopped chewing my new leather settee :shock: and everything else that he just seemed hell-bent on destroying. It took about 2 weeks of 10-15 minutes a day clicker training him, but even during that 2 weeks he was improving every day.

Another added bonus is that him and Pippa used to be absolute horrors about getting back in their enclosure, but now all it takes is a 'Dipsy, home' and he immediately goes home and Pippa goes with him, which was really interesting to discover, because I didn't think rabbits would be so keen to please their owners.

If you do decide to give this a go, I would say there are just 2 things you need to remember to help it work. The first would be finding something that Marnie absolutely adores to eat, and then only ever giving it to her during her clicker time, because that it is her real motivation, and with regards your commands, keep them very short. I only ever say Dipsy's name, and then home, when I want them to go back in their enclosure, or dinner, because they free-range all day, when they have their veg at midday, I will call Dipsy then, and it always makes me smile and I'm so very glad I didn't have to let him go, but I just feel so much love for him, when if he is over the other side of the house, and then I hear him and Pippa come racing over to where their bowl will be in the lounge. I will try to get a video of them. They sound like ponies to be honest running for their veg, and Dipsy is quite happy to be cuddled now, and he will also run up to me to have a fuss made of him, which I never expected to see him do, and I can pick him up for grooming etc.

It seems as though he was so mentally bored and frustrated and was such a naughty and to be honest horrible bunny, the way he attacked to the point that I had to get a piece of wood cut to the size I needed, so that I could use it as a shield. It really wasn't funny, and I have actually had to be referred to a hand surgeon to see in October, and it looks like Dipsy has done some nerve damage that may well need surgery to try and correct or at least improve on.

I know we all get bitten from time to time and curse the furry monsters jokingly, but Dipsy's aggression was not funny at all, and I guess like you are feeling now, I really couldn't carry on anymore with things how they were, but just wanted to let you know about the success I have had with Dipsy.

I wonder if Oscar's arrival has unsettled Marnie? I guess J being home so much at the moment gives him time to see just how destructive Marnie can be. Having said that, when I think of the way George and Gemma wrecked my lounge I think they were just as bad and Violet is clearly going to be the same - but I will start another thread about that little madam!

I know whenever I have had Marnie here that she really can be a Very Naughty Bunny. She would have a lot less space if you moved her outside and I think she would be really bored and fed-up then.

Given that she is so food oriented maybe clicker training would be a good idea - if you ever found time to try it with a toddler and a new baby to look after.

A bit of the wall maybe, but is it at all possible that her naughtiness has increased due to the arrival of Oscar?

I think RogerRabbit is correct in linking the 'naughty' behaviour to intelligence.

Marnie moo is so naughty. I wonder if she is attention seeking ? Especially with you having to spend time with Rosie and Oscar and it has her a bit miffed.

Did you have a little conservatory at the back they could stay in for at least half of the day and fill it with cardboard, boxes and carpet, which she can destroy. Mr B can be a little bit destructive but I find if I entertain him he stops, so it is an attention seeking thing with him.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Oh no Naughty Marnie

I am sorry you are having so many problems with her. She really is a special bunny in so many ways!

I know when she was here we tried her outside and she was definitely a lot more miserable than when she was in the house. In fact she just sat on a garden chair and didn't move all day

She is definitely a very intelligent bunny Has she got things like treat balls? maybe hide small amounts of food inside boxes etc if you have the time. It does sound very much like attention seeking behaviour now you have two little ones to look after, also with Maurice not as well as you would like she hasn't got any bun who can keep up with her to play with :?

I think you have done an amazing job coping with her antics over the years, just an awful shame she has not mellowed with as she has got older........

Thank you all for your advice.

I thought it could have been Oscars arrival that's upset her, but it started before he arrived. It could be j being home too....usually it's not so bad for cables and I don't tend to put things like tea on the floor. We also had no problems when Rosie came along, she was very interested and loved to groom her when she was teeny. She's not shown any interest in Oscar at all.

I still give her attention when she asks for it....and she's certainly not shy about asking.....just doesn't seem to want any at the moment.

They have a treat ball which I put half their dinner in, but she pushes it around without actually eating anything....Maurice goes behind her and hoovers it all up.

I've also tried eggboxes with food in but she ignores them....Maurice rips them apart to get the food :roll:

Someone posted a picture of their bunny with a food puzzle on fb a few weeks ago...but for the life of me I can't remember or find who it was. It was a dark coloured bunny beginning with B I think,......the only problem I think wed have is that she probably just throw it around....or Maurice would (he's a bit of a thug when it comes to food)

Rogerrabbit: I tried clicker training with Blue (my bridge bunny....and Marnies first love) but to be honest, he wasn't the brightest button and never really got it. She already comes to her name (even from upstairs) so I'm not really sure what I'd train her to do. I thought about teaching her to do bunny jumping, but I don't know if that would just make her jumping on things worse.

Liz: Maurice is generally a fairly quiet bun who likes to keep to himself a lot...,,when it comes to people fuss is on his terms or not at all (unless you're on the toilet :? ) he's very affectionate towards her though. He's not particularly active because of his arthritis.....and I sort of thought she'd calm down a little...but instead it seems like she feels she needs to make up for it

Byb: we have a conservatory, but it's just too hot in there....otherwise wed move them in there full time and make it a proper bunny room.

I haven't read the whole thread, but what about trying clicker or target training as you would for an intelligent dog? Perhaps build up to getting her to fetch you stuff?

Zooplus do some food puzzle type things. Even if she just throws them about it is better than throwing your stuff about.

What about a cardboard castle mine has kept prince out of trouble for about a month!

Hugo's There said:

Zooplus do some food puzzle type things. Even if she just throws them about it is better than throwing your stuff about.

What about a cardboard castle mine has kept prince out of trouble for about a month!

Click to expand...

I've been searching for food maze and come up with nothing......I'm such a dinlow :lol:

What do you think of this: http://www.viovet.co.uk/Nina_Ottoss..._find=121022&gclid=CPqftK2U4rkCFXLItAodA2UAcw

We don't really have anywhere to put a castle thingy where she won't be able to use it as a springboard to naughtiness.....and they're usually not big enough.....

I keep coming back to this thread as my brain is whirring with the question of what to do... :lol:

First of all, I thought maybe the bunnies could have accesss to the garden through a cat flap so they can come and go as and when through the day with various huts/hidey hole set ups.. but then I read about foxes... :shock:

The I thought, what about creating a huuuuge pen set up somewhere in the house... but then your bunnies are free ranging bunnies so it probablly wouldn't feel right....

Then I wondered about further bunny proofing? As you can buy all sorts of panneling/gaurds... Hmmm... Expensive much?!

It's a shame about the conservatory being too hot... Would have been a good move...

Theeeeen I thought about the workshop at the bottom of the garden... Any chance it could be shared? :shock::lol:

:?

Yep. Brain still whirring. :lol:

P.S.

Is this what you meant?

:wave:

http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=65&pf_id=53737


Another idea

http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=5942&pf_id=63754

Last suggestion - promise! :lol:

http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=446&pf_id=56550

I have one of those food mazes/puzzles I can post to you as I don't use it. It will probably be simple for Marnie but you can make it harder. I have used it but it is clean. I suspect Bandit simply pulled it apart, he is a big boy.

Get the feeling she is sulking too. Mr B is awful for sulking for not getting enough attention or being out for the day. I didn't realise how emotionally complex they were until I had Mr B.

What the conservatory work for winter?

It's tough without seeing your house/garden to give you options. For example a long narrow garden eg the kind you'd get on a terrace house could work if you build the aviary over the backdoor, so you walk out of the back door straight into an aviary and then have a further door to go through to get into the garden. Any walls can form the sides too. You could even add a catflap to the back door to let them more between kitchen/run.

Food is usually a big factor in behaviour. I would have hay available, then everything else requires work to get - whether it's hunting it out, basic training etc. a lot of the treat based toys work a lot better once they are they only way to get food that's not hay.

I would definitely try the conservatory as the weather cools down - can you put a child gate across the door to the outside and have the door open when you are around so it stays cool?

Be wary about heat early in spring though - but that gives you a while to get things sorted and see how they are with more space and stuff of their own to fling around and make a mess to hearts content.



We have 4 buns in the conservatory right now - and its a rubbish one with a plastic roof - (came with this house and not yet got money to change it). We are thinking of replacing the roof on it with wooden roof come spring.


I do not think Maurice would do well outside - he has never lived outside and would find it strange and probably not good for his joints etc.

I suspect as you got near birth the changes would have started even before new arrival so I do think she will be reacting to that.

would a catflap with run around type setup work? It'd give her more things to do but the option of being inside or outside. With the right protection foxes shouldn't be an issue and you'd be able to set up a digging pit, tunnels, hides, you could plant bunny friendly outside of it so the branches poke in to the run so she can forage for herself