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Should you put their cages in the neutral bonding room?

Emma H

Emma H

Warren Scout
Hi Everyone:wave:

It has been 5 weeks since Belle (the bunny I rescued) had her spay. She has been living in another part of the house to Bailey (my current bun - both large French Lops).

Last night I let Bailey into the room where Belle's cage was so he could hop about and smell her etc. (and did the same with Belle out of the cage and Bailey in). However both times Bailey got a bit aggressive and tried to bite Belle through the cage (I was on hand to move him out of the way - good job I had oven gloves on.haha.)

I am worried about trying the bonding thing now in the neutral area, I don't want Belle to get hurt :cry: There is a room upstairs where Bailey has only been a couple of times (and a very long time ago, but will still clean it).

Should I set up both of their cages in the neutral room? Or just keep that room totally just for bonding time?
At the minute their cages are in different rooms, not near each other. If I'm not to put their cages in the neutral room, should I put their cages together in the room one already has as theirs so they can see each other? I'm worried how Bailey will react at being shut up in his cage for a long time, but I'm willing to be cruel to be kind.

Looking forward to hearing your advice :)

Emma

xxx
 
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I think so yes, if you put Belle in 'bailey's room' he considers that his territory and therefore may feel the need to defend it/be aggressive towards Belle. If you look at it from the angle of having someone just turn up in your house who you don't know and have never met you might get a bit defensive too! Good luck with the bonding though, I'm not sure i could handle the stress!
 
If you put them in the neutral room in their cages, it will no longer be neutral so you will have to use somewhere else for the face to face bonding. Also, although it sometimes helps to keep them side by side before bonding it can also have the opposite effect if one rabbit is being aggressive - it can make them 'hate' each other before the bonding has even begun
 
Ailstar said:
I think so yes, if you put Belle in 'bailey's room' he considers that his territory and therefore may feel the need to defend it/be aggressive towards Belle. If you look at it from the angle of having someone just turn up in your house who you don't know and have never met you might get a bit defensive too! Good luck with the bonding though, I'm not sure i could handle the stress!
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Hi Ailstar :) Thanks for replying!

The trouble is, Bailey has lots rooms - it's more of a case of Bailey's three-bedroom detached!haha. I thought I'd be okay letting Bailey sniff round her in the cage in the room that she is in as he hasn't been in there since I brought her home, but no such luck. He has only been in the back bedroom a few times and it has wooden floor, so I thought that would be best. And it means I can chill out on the bed.haha.

My worry about setting both of their cages up in there (and them only having outside time to bond) was whether having both of their scents on the cages in that room would make them a bit territorial of the room in the first place? But I'm conscious that I want them to be able to see/smell each other when they aren't actually 'bonding'?

I know - I'm a nervous wreck already!!

xxx
 
elmoandfern said:
If you put them in the neutral room in their cages, it will no longer be neutral so you will have to use somewhere else for the face to face bonding. Also, although it sometimes helps to keep them side by side before bonding it can also have the opposite effect if one rabbit is being aggressive - it can make them 'hate' each other before the bonding has even begun
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Sorry, I didn't see this before my reply. That's what I was thinking?

Perhaps a few face to face bonds without seeing each other through the cages then? Then move the cages together into a room when they have started to make friends?

xxx
 
If you put them in the neutral room in their cages, it will no longer be neutral so you will have to use somewhere else for the face to face bonding. Also, although it sometimes helps to keep them side by side before bonding it can also have the opposite effect if one rabbit is being aggressive - it can make them 'hate' each other before the bonding has even begun
Click to expand...

This.

How rabbits react between mesh gives no indication of what they will be like face to face. It can be a useful tool to get them used to each others scent, but as suggested can often be stressful for them as they get frustrated they can't get to each other.

Do you have a playpen/puppy panels? If it was me I'd set up a small pen (not either of their cages, must be neutral) in a neutral room, put them together and providing no major drama interefere as little as possible and leave them together. You could date them if you prefer or its more suited to the buns but I don't usually use that method so hopefully someone else could advise on that.

Once they are bonded I wouldn't seperate them into their cages - it would be best to get a bigger cage they can share when confined Or you could join the two somehow, just remember to clean them with vinegar first.
 
Amy104 said:
This.

How rabbits react between mesh gives no indication of what they will be like face to face. It can be a useful tool to get them used to each others scent, but as suggested can often be stressful for them as they get frustrated they can't get to each other.

Do you have a playpen/puppy panels? If it was me I'd set up a small pen (not either of their cages, must be neutral) in a neutral room, put them together and providing no major drama interefere as little as possible and leave them together. You could date them if you prefer or its more suited to the buns but I don't usually use that method so hopefully someone else could advise on that.

Once they are bonded I wouldn't seperate them into their cages - it would be best to get a bigger cage they can share when confined Or you could join the two somehow, just remember to clean them with vinegar first.
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Hi Amy :wave:

Oh that makes me feel a bit better - thought Bailey might instantly hate her :cry:

I did have a playpen for Bailey - but he soon outgrew it - both Bailey and Belle are in excess of 4kg.haha. The room I would put them in is only small? It has a day bed, chest of drawers and a dressing table in - with some floor space in the middle. Would I need a pen?

I have all day Saturday and Sunday I can be with them 24/7? Other than that I would have to do the dating method? Would you recommend dating them tonight and tomorrow night (putting them back in there separate rooms after), then doing the full stint with them in the bedroom Saturday, Sunday?

I have two large indoor cages (both exactly the same cages) and was going to join them in sort of a 'L' shape once they were bonded, so will be able to do that :)
 
Personally I would start on Sat and see how it goes. By sunday you may feel confident leaving them if you are lucky and its love at first sight, otherwise you can seperate and continue dating.

The only reason I suggest a pen is because it stops them ignoring each other and encorgaes them to interact (this isn't suitable for all buns, some may find it stressfull but I've done lots of bonds and its generally worked well for me). I'd also worry if they had the whole room which has furniture they could get under something and scrap and you wont be able to reach them to seperate, or one bun may take ownership of something etc. I think Rainbow rabbits have done a few bonds in an open space so they might be able to advise better on how to do bonds that way.
 
Amy104 said:
Personally I would start on Sat and see how it goes. By sunday you may feel confident leaving them if you are lucky and its love at first sight, otherwise you can seperate and continue dating.

The only reason I suggest a pen is because it stops them ignoring each other and encorgaes them to interact (this isn't suitable for all buns, some may find it stressfull but I've done lots of bonds and its generally worked well for me). I'd also worry if they had the whole room which has furniture they could get under something and scrap and you wont be able to reach them to seperate, or one bun may take ownership of something etc. I think Rainbow rabbits have done a few bonds in an open space so they might be able to advise better on how to do bonds that way.
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Ah i see :) Thank you - I will assemble the old pen in the sanitized room upstairs, hopefully it won't be too small for them. I'm thinking the size that it is (big enough for two dwarfs to hop about a few times) though they may not be able to do much moving? (when I rescued Bailey they told me he was a dwarf.haha) Is that okay?

I don't think they could get anywhere in the room I wouldn't be able reach them though - the day bed has a mattress underneath it. The chest of drawers is straight to the floor.

xxxxx
 
Maybe try it, sometimes a small space works, sometimes not. If you think its not enough space once they are in it you can always take it down and use the whole room.
 
Amy104 said:
Maybe try it, sometimes a small space works, sometimes not. If you think its not enough space once they are in it you can always take it down and use the whole room.
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Thanks Amy!!!! God I hope this is successful! Eeeeek!
 
My rabbits tried to bite when meeting through a cage so I wouldn't take it as sign that their bond wont work! You could try their dates in the bath if you have one? I did this the plus side to it is if there is any fighting about to happen you can scoop one out easy as they cant keep their footing very well in the bath :D
 
Amy104 said:
Goodluck. :D
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I'm worried that I need more than luck.haha.

My plan is to disinfect all of Bailey's room (his cage etc.) and Belle's cage and change the layout around and put brand new toys and tunnels in there, then hopefully when they are grooming each other, not fighting etc. in the bonding room, move them both into the room they will sleep in (and keep them in there for a while and extend their space gradually). I'm hoping to do this Sunday night so I can sleep in my own bed ready to go to work Monday :(

BUT........what shall I do if this doesn't happen over the weekend and they are still fighting / trying to work out who's boss.....

Would you suggest 1. putting them in the newly disinfected room with new toys etc. in their separate cages and then have dates in the neutral room (although will this be neutral anymore as they have been in there all weekend)? 2. move their disinfected cages into the bonding room? or 3. keep them in separate rooms as they are now and use the bonding room for dates?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just determined to succeed!!haha

Hi Jojo :wave: Unfortunately they are both pretty big buns (last time I weighed Bailey he was about 4.5kg.haha.) - there wouldn't be much room for them to move in the bath. Getting my marigolds at the ready to douse the back bedroom in vinegar ;)

xxxxxx
 
I would bond them in the neutral room, preferably in the pen to start with so they have to be near each other and learn that it's safe. When they are grooming and sleeping eating happily I would then let them out into the rest of the room. This might cause fighting as they get used to each other really moving around, but should settle quickly.

If you are happy after the weekend to leave them together indefinitely I would then move them into the disinfected room, but leave at least 2 hours (preferably longer) when you can still watch them as again moving might cause fighting, especially as Bailey is likely to recognise the room.

If you are not happy to leave them together I would put them back into their own rooms as otherwise you have the same problem again with Bailey's room not being neutral.

Another thing you could do if you don't leave them together is swap them from one room to the other so that they start to smell of each other and get used to each others smells without actually meeting and aggravating/frightening each other.

You could then continue dating them in the evenings or just do the swapping until you can have another long go next weekend. Some people say that having short dates is not good as they get frustrated working things out, others are happy to do that. I think it depends on the rabbits, but lean towards long dates, with one long period of weeks if necessary being preferable.
 
FondueKid said:
I would bond them in the neutral room, preferably in the pen to start with so they have to be near each other and learn that it's safe. When they are grooming and sleeping eating happily I would then let them out into the rest of the room. This might cause fighting as they get used to each other really moving around, but should settle quickly.

If you are happy after the weekend to leave them together indefinitely I would then move them into the disinfected room, but leave at least 2 hours (preferably longer) when you can still watch them as again moving might cause fighting, especially as Bailey is likely to recognise the room.

If you are not happy to leave them together I would put them back into their own rooms as otherwise you have the same problem again with Bailey's room not being neutral.

Another thing you could do if you don't leave them together is swap them from one room to the other so that they start to smell of each other and get used to each others smells without actually meeting and aggravating/frightening each other.

You could then continue dating them in the evenings or just do the swapping until you can have another long go next weekend. Some people say that having short dates is not good as they get frustrated working things out, others are happy to do that. I think it depends on the rabbits, but lean towards long dates, with one long period of weeks if necessary being preferable.
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Thanks FondueKid :D

I will try this! So definitely do not make the 'bonding' room the room that they stay in if they are not bonded after the weekend.

Good idea about the swapping of rooms in the week if it doesn't work out this weekend :) Bailey has the conservatory and kitchen and present and Belle has the study and downstairs bathroom - the dining room is the barrier between them.hahaha. My other half is beside himself!

If I have to start again next weekend and 'date' in the week, is the bonding room still going to be 'neutral' given that they will have both been in there for a considerable amount of time? I'll have no rooms left.haha.

If this fails I'm considering asking my mother in law if I can move them to her house to bond! Fingers crossed it won't come to that. Part of me doesn't want Saturday to come - I'm so worried.

xxxxx
 
Emma H said:
If I have to start again next weekend and 'date' in the week, is the bonding room still going to be 'neutral' given that they will have both been in there for a considerable amount of time? I'll have no rooms left.haha.
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Yes you can leave the bonding room as it is, in fact it's better to, because it will be a shared space where they have both been and that smells of them both together - a "group smell" rather then it being the territory of one or the other. The important thing is that neither of them are in a room alone that you want them to be in together afterwards (without full clean and vinegar treatment) ;)

Bonding can be stressful, but I also find it a lot of fun and you really get to know them and learn a lot about rabbit body language.... You could always start tonight instead of tomorrow and then your brain won't have time to catch up and be worried :thumb:
 
So.......we have been in the bonding room for 7 hours.

Bailey has been chasing Belle alot, we had a bit of nipping at first so lots of fur about!

They are lying down (not next to each other) and are grooming themselves, so they must feel comfortable around one another. I put some banana on Belle's head and Bailey has licked it off her 😃 but other than that no grooming. Bailey just seems to want to chase her whenever she gets near now 😞

Neither has pooped all day though?! When should I start to worry about this? Both are eating however!

xxxxxx
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That sounds great :D At some point she will have to stop and let him do whatever he wants, or show him that it's unacceptable and then they can settle into their roles.

How did they do the rest of the weekend? Did the pooping and grooming happen?

ps: they're both gorgeous :love:
 
Hi FondueKid 😃

I popped some photos on another thread 'should there be mounting during a bond'.

It went really well, very glad I did the fast-track method! They have both now moved into the conservatory, but I'm still a bit worried to join their indoor cages at night! Think its me being over cautious though.haha. Going to bite the bullet this weekend so I can leave them free range in there whilst I'm at work-hate keeping them in their cages!

xxxxx


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