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View Full Version : Sorry, need a some thoughts about Roger please ud post 15



Sky-O
12-08-2013, 08:46 PM
Sorry for asking but I want some thoughts an opinions.

Roger is my lovely wildie. He's been here for 5 years now, which makes him about five and a half.

About 6 weeks ago I noticed he was easier to handle and was losing weight/condition (prominent spine type stuff), but showing no signs of any different behaviours.

Off to the vets we went and nothing was found wrong but they ran bloods. All normal. so we went for 'watch this space' because we knew something was wrong but couldn't identify what.

A couple of weeks later he hadn't improved and his poos shrunk so he had a dental to remone teeny weeny spurs.

He recovered ok but needed pain relief, twice daily.

He then lost his wifey. He's been on Septrin (which he LOVES) as a precaution because we're not sure what Sandy died of yet (looks like heart failure but still waiting for some more results).

He's on daily pain relief (well, bi-daily) and he is bright and alert and interested but he just isn't right. He doesn't have enthusiasm for pellets but he does for greens and grass and Readigrass. He is very interested and alert for any stimulation. He's also currently in quarantine.

Tomorrow he is going in for x-rays to see if there is a brewing dental abscess (seen something similar in some of the others prior to diagnosis) and see if there is any arthritis or anything. Both of those I will treat. He's great at taking meds- he loves his Metacam and Septrin (like steal the syringe and then chew it to pieces if I don't get there fast enough, type love).

He is still glossy he just has a very stuck out spine and he has lost some interest in his pellets.

I have opted for no specialist referral because, as a wildie, I don't think he would cope with that, especially alone.

I can't bond him yet but have a plan for who he may be tried with, although I don't feel entirely comfortable bonding him when he is not 100% (but he is my easiest bonder so it won't caused a problem with bonding, I worry more about him).

But he is a wildie and if I can see and identify it then he is hiding it REALLY well.

He has a quality of life but I worry that he's hiding stuff and he is suffering.

Because I've opted to not push this further than what my vets can do if the vets can't pick anything up tomorrow, do I make a pre-emptive strike to protect him and let him go? Do I wait and see what becomes clear? Do I whack him on Tramadol as well to ensure no pain?

I want to do the best for him and it would be horrible for me to let him go but if that's right, then I will, but I don't know if it is? I feel like I should only do that if we know what it is and can't treat it, but we may not find out what it is because it would be too stressful to see the Specialist. then I feel like I'm letting him down because I won't make the referral, despite going to specialists with others. I feel like he might think i think he's less worthy (which is stupid because he couldn't and wouldn't think that- he's a rabbit, and I don't think that anyway- I love him to bits).

So, any thoughts on that? Thanks in advance.

Jack's-Jane
12-08-2013, 08:57 PM
If nothing obvious is found tomorrow I'd continue the 'watch and wait'

He certainly does not sound to be suffering. You may find that he will have gained a bit of weight whilst on the Septrin if he was harbouring an infection of some sort.

You will always do right by any Rabbit in your care, they are all very lucky to have you xx

Sky-O
12-08-2013, 08:58 PM
If nothing obvious is found tomorrow I'd continue the 'watch and wait'

He certainly does not sound to be suffering. You may find that he will have gained a bit of weight whilst on the Septrin if he was harbouring an infection of some sort.

Thank you, I'm so glad you said that. This is what I really wanted but didn't know if that was selfish.

And thank you for the confidence boost :) That was kind :)

parsnipbun
12-08-2013, 09:02 PM
sorry to hear about Roger's problems and your quandries.

My thoughts (in note form) are:

Are you sure of age? Wildies hand raised can be very small for age so if from rescue or another person can you be sure of what they said? - or if had issues before coming into human care and came into humancare after the 'raising' period, then could be smaller than average anyway.

If sure of age - could it be that wildies on average in human care live slightly less long than domestic buns in same situation? I am not sure how many have been/are in human care - I know some have lived as long as domestics but is there an average?

As you can see I am first just thinking 'ageing'

Other than that getting thinner could be change of diet (does he live mainly on grass forage? if so it has less nutrients this year as very dry - this has affected mine I think).

Could he now just be upset about loss of partner? (I realise it started before but then she may have been ill and he would have known that) My Pippin was very quiet for quite a while (and had never bonded properly again in fact though lives with two other wildies he has not actually bonded with either as a strong bond like he had with Pansy)

Weather? response to heat?

Then we get to teeth and liver/kidney issues etc

Teeth does sound unlikely for wildie - unless infection -

personally I would not let him go without trying hard to diagnose or if having no luck with that then giving pain relief and sticking with it to see if Autumn and poss rebonding brings a turn around.

Can you have a soft tissues scan as well as xray?

not sure any of this helps . . .

twigs

Barn Yard Bunnies
12-08-2013, 09:04 PM
Sending Roger tons of vibes.

You know I am hopeless with advice, :oops: but hoping for the best. xxx

Sky-O
12-08-2013, 09:16 PM
sorry to hear about Roger's problems and your quandries.

My thoughts (in note form) are:

Are you sure of age? Wildies hand raised can be very small for age so if from rescue or another person can you be sure of what they said? - or if had issues before coming into human care and came into humancare after the 'raising' period, then could be smaller than average anyway.

If sure of age - could it be that wildies on average in human care live slightly less long than domestic buns in same situation? I am not sure how many have been/are in human care - I know some have lived as long as domestics but is there an average?

As you can see I am first just thinking 'ageing'

Other than that getting thinner could be change of diet (does he live mainly on grass forage? if so it has less nutrients this year as very dry - this has affected mine I think).

Could he now just be upset about loss of partner? (I realise it started before but then she may have been ill and he would have known that) My Pippin was very quiet for quite a while (and had never bonded properly again in fact though lives with two other wildies he has not actually bonded with either as a strong bond like he had with Pansy)

Weather? response to heat?

Then we get to teeth and liver/kidney issues etc

Teeth does sound unlikely for wildie - unless infection -

personally I would not let him go without trying hard to diagnose or if having no luck with that then giving pain relief and sticking with it to see if Autumn and poss rebonding brings a turn around.

Can you have a soft tissues scan as well as xray?

not sure any of this helps . . .

twigs

Thanks guys.

Twigs, I'll try to address point by point.

Aging- He was mistakenly caught and we guessed around 6-7 months old and he did grow when with me. It is entirely possible that he wasn't as young as we thought so yes, it is possible he is older and this is ageing. I hope this is the case, if I'm honest. but how sad after such a long life in the wild to be caught.

His diet hasn't changed at all. I had to keep it completely stable because Sandy has such a rough tummy. Since she's been gone I have increased the pellets to see about stabilising his weight and added in more fresh.

I had considered it could be related to Sandy but I'm not getting that vibe. He's always been very clear when he knows somebunny is not ok (he's previously lived with a bunny with terminal cancer, and also a bunny with head tilt, plus Sandy, and always been the same)- he trashes everything and does more chasing. He's not done any of this and has been his normal immaculate self and the chasing had come right down since we fixed Sandy's abscess. He seems very bright, really, in terms of behaviour.

I don't think it's a response to heat, but won't rule it out- their accommodation doesn't get ultra warm and is in a nice breeze so none of them have struggled this year.

Soft tissue scan- I don't know if that's possible but I will ask.

You've reassured me that it's ok to see how we go with him. I'm so, so worried about him suffering- he hides things so much more than the others, despite being on a friendly basis with me. I live in fear I'm going to let him down and he will suffer. That's ultimately what the fear is- I will let him down. It's good to hear you guys saying what my gut instinct is really saying. Once we have Sandy's results back I'm hopeful I can then bond him in.

Thank you :D I feel so much better now because you (with multi wildies) and Jane both agree and that makes me feel much more settled. Thank you. A lot.

lucy24
12-08-2013, 09:20 PM
well i have no advcie but i wish him all the best and hope its not too serious:wave:

Mrs. Bunnykins
12-08-2013, 09:30 PM
I know that you will do your very best for Roger as you do for all of the furries in your care.

I agree with the thoughts and comments posted so far.


Sending you and Roger the very best of wishes for whatever the future holds.


Take care.

Di. x

ripminnie
12-08-2013, 10:07 PM
I'm glad some of these responses have made you feel better :D just stop apologising for posting!! I hope Roger is ok; sending tons of vibes for him xxx

Tamsin
13-08-2013, 12:52 AM
Scamp (neutered male wildie) turned six at the end of April. He's maybe calmed down a little, possibly, well he's still quite hyper really but on a scale. Two doesn't really make a very representative sample though. He's not seemed bothered by the hot weather.

Perhaps a poop test? If you feed forage perhaps he could have picked up a parasite? More a case of ruling things out and it's not invasive for him. I don't know if a urine sample would show anything a blood test wouldn't again it's something which wouldn't involve him stressed out going to the vet.

He could need more calories now he's older. Scamp's never managed to carry any excess weight an now and then if he's looking a little skinnier, eg he's moulting I feed him a pinch or two of rolled oats. Perhaps a vitamin powder if he doesn't eat many pellets just in case he's missing something necessary from his diet.

I agree, exhaust the diagnosis tools you have and then just manage on a day by day basis. I think even with a wild rabbit that's good at hiding things you still have that intuition because you know them so well. If it gets to the stage it's time to call it a day I think you'll know.

Sky-O
13-08-2013, 07:32 AM
Thanks Tamsin. Good ideas. I might whack him on Panacur as well, just in case (he loves that too). And discuss the poo test.

He's had a really good night overnight and demolished a very large pile of pellets. He's on good form today and if he's going to the vets in good form hopefully he will come back ok too.

Thank you all so much for your help and support. It's been very much appreciated and helped me find a way forward.

Jack's-Jane
13-08-2013, 07:38 AM
Thanks Tamsin. Good ideas. I might whack him on Panacur as well, just in case (he loves that too). And discuss the poo test.

He's had a really good night overnight and demolished a very large pile of pellets. He's on good form today and if he's going to the vets in good form hopefully he will come back ok too.

Thank you all so much for your help and support. It's been very much appreciated and helped me find a way forward.

Hope all goes well for Roger today :love:

MimzMum
13-08-2013, 07:45 AM
I'd like to add some vibes for Roger. I hope everything goes well today.
((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))) xxxx

Mrs. Bunnykins
13-08-2013, 08:52 AM
Good luck Roger.:thumb: xx

Sky-O
13-08-2013, 12:53 PM
Roger has a teeny weeny abscess- surprising the vet but not me. We now know what it is and I'm pleased about that. We can treat this.

ripminnie
13-08-2013, 01:06 PM
Roger has a teeny weeny abscess- surprising the vet but not me. We now know what it is and I'm pleased about that. We can treat this.

Great stuff :thumb: i hope he feels better soon! :wave:

Vegan_Bunny
13-08-2013, 01:14 PM
Glad you have found something that can be treated. Sending him lots of vibes. Well done for catching it so early! :thumb:

Barn Yard Bunnies
13-08-2013, 01:16 PM
Roger has a teeny weeny abscess- surprising the vet but not me. We now know what it is and I'm pleased about that. We can treat this.

So pleased it isn't anything serious and it can be treated fairly easily.

Nose rubs for Roger. :love:

madcatwoman
13-08-2013, 01:21 PM
I know I am a novice in comparison to many but I worried about one of my lot, she appeared to be thinning out but fine in herself, I kept watching and waiting then I had a eureka moment and weighed her, she weighed the same, kept an eye on things again then realised how blond I was, she was loosing her huge thick winter coat so just looked like nobody loved her when actually she was fine. Im not saying that this is the case for your wildie but it was just my experience.

Jenova
13-08-2013, 01:33 PM
I'm sorry I missed this before but I'm glad you've found out what it is. :thumb:
Sending him lots of vibes. Just goes to show you know your rabbits well if you can spot that in a wildie. :D

Kittykat23uk
13-08-2013, 03:04 PM
That is good news!

parsnipbun
13-08-2013, 03:08 PM
glad to hear its identified and solveable!

parsnipbun
13-08-2013, 03:12 PM
Scamp (neutered male wildie) turned six at the end of April. He's maybe calmed down a little, possibly, well he's still quite hyper really but on a scale. Two doesn't really make a very representative sample though. He's not seemed bothered by the hot weather.

Perhaps a poop test? If you feed forage perhaps he could have picked up a parasite? More a case of ruling things out and it's not invasive for him. I don't know if a urine sample would show anything a blood test wouldn't again it's something which wouldn't involve him stressed out going to the vet.

He could need more calories now he's older. Scamp's never managed to carry any excess weight an now and then if he's looking a little skinnier, eg he's moulting I feed him a pinch or two of rolled oats. Perhaps a vitamin powder if he doesn't eat many pellets just in case he's missing something necessary from his diet.

I agree, exhaust the diagnosis tools you have and then just manage on a day by day basis. I think even with a wild rabbit that's good at hiding things you still have that intuition because you know them so well. If it gets to the stage it's time to call it a day I think you'll know.


Although its 'solved' now I think its well worth bearing this in mind in future - wildies are (in my experience) so hyper that they carry no fat at all. Our three are all equally skinny. Have to admit (and this is bad really) that of the three we only know Pippin really well and can handle him, Harebell we see every day and would know if something was up but cannot handle etc except in emergency for vets and jabs etc - Peasgood Nonsuch (who came into human care probably 6mths to a year old) is really wild (though alas not wild enough to go back into the wild). We try to see him once a day but he spends much of his time in the pipes and cubby holes in their chalet run. Its a fine balance between ensuring he is well and not stressing him by trying to find him.

Sky-O
13-08-2013, 04:23 PM
Thank you all :) He's home now and shoving clods of grass in.

All the over feeding has worked and he is back up to his healthy weight, just with wrong distribution but hopefully this will change.

I can also see exactly what is being said about him being slender, and with nothing to play with, weight wise.

I've been VERY lucky with Roger, he is black, so we suspect he has domestic in him probably in the not too distant past and when he first came I worked intensively with him and he was responsive to this. What lingers in him is his fear of hands and any perceived thread of hands but he comes running for food will 'help' me clean, will steal and, on the odd occasions inside, will certainly explore, which means I definitely have that much easier than others with very wild wildies, such as Peasgood Nonsuch, by the sounds of it.

Hopefully, once these meds are working and Sandy's results are back and he's in better shape I can commence bonding- yay. (not for a couple of weeks though, just now I can start to look for his future).

GrahamL
13-08-2013, 04:36 PM
Glad to hear the 'negative' wasn't as bad as it could of been Sky :)

Continued thoughts for Roger, and yourself.

Mrs. Bunnykins
13-08-2013, 04:37 PM
Thanks for the positive update.:thumb:

Sending continued vibes and best wishes to you and Roger.:wave: x

Tamsin
13-08-2013, 05:40 PM
I'm glad to hear they found the problem, I hope it clears up without too much trouble :D

I'm very spoilt with Scamp, I just put the scales on the floor and hold food above and he hops on - the food is necessary to keep him still long enough to register. He's generally a fairly steady 1.4kg.

mini lop1
13-08-2013, 07:25 PM
so glad its a positive update :) x

tulsi
14-08-2013, 12:09 PM
Just read this. Soooo glad that Roger has something treatable and how awesome and beautiful that you knew that there was something wrong with him x

Captain Helen
14-08-2013, 10:19 PM
Glad you've got an answer and he's on the right treatment :) Sending lots of vibes for Roger xx

MimzMum
15-08-2013, 12:33 AM
I'm so glad Roger is doing better and things were not as grim as they seemed. :love:
Snuggles for Roger and hugs for you. xxxx :)