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View Full Version : Long term eye issues, more advice needed please :(



newbabybuns
08-08-2013, 03:49 PM
Does anyone have any experience of this? Frankie has been having issues with weepy eyes for a couple of months or so now. We have tried a course of Maxitrol, and two rounds of Tiacil. At first it was one eye, now both. Today she has gone under GA to have a duct flush, which the nurse has told me was not very successful. She also has had teeth filed to see if this will help. From what I have been reading, elongated tooth roots may be a cause, but I don't really know much about them at all, or any other possible causes. They mentioned trying her on a course of baytril, or a stronger off license Amoxycillin? But could cause her a bad stomach and she is quite a sensitive tummy bun. And just palliative care for her :( She is quite a happy little bun at the moment, and does not seem to be bothered by her eyes at all.

She is a lionhead, and has a much smaller skull than her sisters, so I don't know if that may be a contributing factor. She has had the occasional spur filed down, but her teeth are otherwise pretty good. She is a brilliant hay eater, and eats piles of long Timothy & Rye, so I am not sure changing her diet is really an idea.

I am an absolute wreck today, crying my eyes out and I just can't stop. Anything is setting me off, looking out at their aviary/playhouse that they havn't been able to be put out in yet (every time she is ok to be spayed ready for bonding something else happens), putting her best friend her ball away, a parcel of new things for them has just arrived and she is not here to have them. I really can't pull myself together. Any thoughts or vibes for my special girl would be appreciated xxxx

Jenova
08-08-2013, 03:54 PM
It's very possible it's elongated tooth roots. Keeping the teeth short will help with the pressure, but there is no 'cure'. Metacam can help with pain if it causes her to stop eating in the future and friend can help clean the eyes. It's all too common unfortunately.

Is the discharge from the eyes clear or a colour? Do they smell? One important thing to combat is any soreness/scalding round the eyes. I was given some F10 barrier ointment by the vets which I found fantastic.

Try antibiotics first to clear it up. Ask the vet if she can stay on them for a week or preferably two weeks after the symptoms clear up to make sure it's gone.

newbabybuns
08-08-2013, 04:04 PM
Thank you Jenova, I thought of you and Grim and wondered if that was a similar thing.

It is usually running clear but sticky, but occasionally milky. No smell at all. They have never crusted over which is something I suppose, but at times her skin shows where they are wet, so I can see that could become a sore patch at some point. Last night before bed, I raised her eyelid slightly to look at her eyes and her eyes just seemed slightly bulgy almost as if there was pressure there, but she had been poked and prodded at the vet earlier in the evening. This morning, her eyelids were back to a fairly normal pink colour (rather than redder than normal!) and looked pretty ok apart from a small amount of fluid.

SJH
08-08-2013, 04:47 PM
My experience of this is flushing tear ducts is fairly useless unless there is an infection (which there never has been). There's been no obvious reason for running eyes in either my current bun or his predecessor. They just do! Neither bun has appeared to have been in the least bit bothered by it either.

Dust can be a factor. It lessened for my current chap when I changed brand of what looked like the same bedding.

If they like sleeping in their litter tray and have strong urine as per my old bun that can set it off too. I was advised to use saline eye-drops from the chemist for him to keep the eyes moisturised which actually worked.

:)

Jack's-Jane
08-08-2013, 04:53 PM
Has she had skull radiographs taken ? That is the only way to confirm if the problem is tooth root related.

newbabybuns
08-08-2013, 05:02 PM
Thank you, it is good to hear your buns didn't seem bothered.

I will make sure to shake her hay extra well, and she does have strong urine which she has been flopping near her toilet a lot more recently, so that could have been contributing. I wonder if it is worth moving her outside into the playhouse/aviary by herself and think of alternatives for her sisters and see if the fresh air helps. My OH is home for a week soon so I can supervise her more easily while she gets used to it.

newbabybuns
08-08-2013, 05:30 PM
Has she had skull radiographs taken ? That is the only way to confirm if the problem is tooth root related.

Not up until this point. I mentioned it to the vet yesterday, but wish I had told them to do it while she was under GA today. I may find they have when I go to collect her as the vet seemed quite thorough, she was a locum I hadn't seen before, but she seemed very savvy.

ETA The vet just called while I was typing! She said that it was quite unusual in that her eyes were bulging as she was flushing so had to stop and hasn't seen that before in both eyes, it was as if something is going on behind them, but now they have returned to normal. None of the solution would come out of her nose, and that it could be due to some scar tissue perhaps but she is thinking more along the lines of tooth roots. She is eating and has had painkillers, and an anti biotic injection and will come home with a course of anti biotics tomorrow. I asked about the X-ray and she said that they didn't do one, but everything is pointing to tooth roots, but we will reassess after the antibiotics, and do one for confirmation if we wanted, but it wouldn't really do much else as she can't be cured as such. She also mentioned something to look at the eyes in detail , but I didn't catch what it was called. She said we will then be looking at palliative care :( but she is not too bothered by them so far.

I feel so bad, she is not quite 3 and facing these problems. She has beaten severe diaorreah when a baby, bloat, stasis a few times and now is facing this :(

newbabybuns
08-08-2013, 05:45 PM
Apologies for the badly written post above, I was typing through tears ( again :( ) and trying to write as much info from the phone call as poss.

Do I dare ask how life limiting this diagnosis is?? :cry: I am thinking of forgetting getting her well enough to be spayed (if even poss now?) and bonded with her sisters again and just letting her live out her days in the aviary by herself. It is just sat empty at the moment waiting for the moment they could all go in together :( I feel so incredibly sad it has not worked out with them all and there is a chance she will never get to live in it, it was meant to be a dream home for her :cry:

panda-monium
08-08-2013, 06:12 PM
sorry your bun is having problems. when my mini lop had runny eyes all the usual treatment was done skul x-rays you name it he had it but nothing worked inthe end i used golden eye ointment from chemist (did'nt say that it was for a rabbit or they would not of sold it me) that helped alot . but at the time ben was living in the house and was bedded on news paper and hay when i moved him to a shed in spring his eyes cleared up. a while later i ran out of my usual bedding so used news paper in bens pen and his eyes went bad again it turned out ben is allergic to news paper

Santa
08-08-2013, 10:54 PM
I don't think it necessarily need be terribly life limiting, it really depends on how quickly it progresses. My Santa had dreadful tooth root problems (verified by x-ray) and while we did battle with ongoing chronic infections, she was a happy little soul and lived to be 8. I actually think that bonding is one of the best things you can do for a bunny with permanently blocked tear ducts, as their companions will often groom around the eyes and help to keep them clean, it is astonishing the difference that can make.

The only things you can really do to try and limit its progression are to ensure a good, high fibre diet which it sounds like she has anyway, and when she needs a dental, get the vet to burr the teeth back to just above the gum line - as this removes some of the pressure on the roots and keeps it that way for longer. Santa used to have hers done about twice a year. That, being bonded with Dudley and having regular, long courses of antibiotics, kept her well and cheerful for many years.

Good luck with your little one - of course while it can progress quickly, it needn't necessarily do so and you may easily have many years left with your little furry for company x x

Jenova
08-08-2013, 11:03 PM
Grim is almost seven and started with the same symptoms at about a year old. If the solution wouldn't come out of the nose it's because it's probably blocked by a tooth root rather than infection. I'd still want an x ray to be sure.

What I do is give metacam when needed and give antibiotics when the eye becomes infected. Most of the time it just used to run clear or very slightly milky but if it was white or yellow he'd go on antibiotics until it was back to clear again. Keep the teeth as short as possible, make sure lots of hay is being eaten and take it a day at a time.

I don't rate tear duct flushes at all. I massage the pus out of Grim's eyes myself as I was shown by the vet how to do it. And then apply eye drops. Was the area around the eye with cooled boiled water if it does become crusty and use vaseline or F10 barrier ointment on bare sore skin.

Just manage it day to day and you'll both be fine. PM me if you ever need any advice. :wave:

newbabybuns
08-08-2013, 11:30 PM
It is good to hear both your experiences. It has definitely made me think there is hope for her to have a good life after all. I want nothing more than for them all to be living in the lovely house we have built together. I guess I will need to see if the vet is ok to spay her. Every time she has been better for it something else has cropped up.

I will ask the vet to show me where to massage, she said she had done this earlier after her eyes bulged while trying to flush and they seemed to calm down, so this sounds as though it will be beneficial to learn.

Thank you again, I honestly don't know what I would have done without having RU to write this all down and have bunny people listen xxx

newbabybuns
13-08-2013, 06:10 PM
Frankie is still on her baytril, and now after the initial grumpiness of being in the vets the other day is back eating/pooping/playing normally. Yesterday her eyes were very clear and a normal colour, but as she started her crazy racing round in the evening they started to bulge slightly again. This is when I noticed the bulging the other night, after crazy running around chasing her ball. Could this be doing something to start it off and as the duct is blocked the liquid is not escaping as it has been? Not much was coming out at all, whereas the other day it was coming out and then the bulgyness was going down.

The vet did not see me when I picked her up the other day, the receptionist handed her over, and it completely left my mind to ask how/where to massage to help it come out. Do you know where I should be doing it?

I have been googling to try and learn about the structure of the eye to see if I can get my head round it, but am unsuccessful so far. What happens if the pressure is so great behind her eyes and none of the liquid would come out. I am really scared something terrible/painful will happen.

I have been crying constantly about it, I really can't pull myself together at all :(

Jack's-Jane
13-08-2013, 07:21 PM
Frankie is still on her baytril, and now after the initial grumpiness of being in the vets the other day is back eating/pooping/playing normally. Yesterday her eyes were very clear and a normal colour, but as she started her crazy racing round in the evening they started to bulge slightly again. This is when I noticed the bulging the other night, after crazy running around chasing her ball. Could this be doing something to start it off and as the duct is blocked the liquid is not escaping as it has been? Not much was coming out at all, whereas the other day it was coming out and then the bulgyness was going down.

The vet did not see me when I picked her up the other day, the receptionist handed her over, and it completely left my mind to ask how/where to massage to help it come out. Do you know where I should be doing it?

I have been googling to try and learn about the structure of the eye to see if I can get my head round it, but am unsuccessful so far. What happens if the pressure is so great behind her eyes and none of the liquid would come out. I am really scared something terrible/painful will happen.

I have been crying constantly about it, I really can't pull myself together at all :(

I am wondering if the primary issue is not actually her eyes but something going on in her chest cavity. If there were to be a mass in her chest then it can compress the large blood vessels returning from the head to the heart. This then causes increased pressure in the veins of the head and bulging of the eyes. An xray or ultrasound is the only way to diagnose this type of condition. The bulging eyes only occur during physical exertion or stress eg when being picked up.

newbabybuns
13-08-2013, 08:23 PM
Thinking about it when she has been playing/chasing her ball and she flops, you can visibly see her heart racing so much her entire body shakes with it, although this is a normal thing for her and not a recent thing.

When the vet was performing the flush she said the eyes started to bulge as she was pushing the fluid through, but no fluid would come out of the nose so she aborted the procedure as she had not seen that happen with eyes before. I can't visualise the way the duct/veins etc look to figure out where the fluid would be collecting.

I should try and get some comparison pics really. It isn't necessarily visible like a scared rabbit kind of bulgy look, but more if I lift her eyelid slightly you don't see the white of the eye so much, it is as if the coloured part fills the space more than normal. Not sure that makes sense!

ETA She is due to go back for a check up after he course of baytril finishes, the next step was the x ray to confirm it was tooth roots but I could ask for them to x ray lower down too. She had an X-ray at the emergency vets last year when she had bloat so I wonder if the films were recorded anywhere and could be useful as a comparison to now. Depending how much they x rayed of her though.