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  • Please Note - Medical Advice

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Bunny needs help - vet can't diagnose

T

tinydancerla

New Kit
Hello,

My rabbit is 10 yrs old. First she started to seem itchy on her back and ears. It almost seemed neurological. Whenever I went to pet her (especially if I touched her ears) she would tweak out and sort of bend her body in. I took her to the vet. He said she didn't have ear or fur mites but probably had some type of dermaplasty disease. He gave her a cortisone shot and an antibiotic shot that lasts for 2 weeks. She seemed to do better. Then she got another shot but more (and different) symptoms developed about 5 days later...

She started to exhibit breathing problems. She would grunt and wheezed when she breathes and her breath at times would be short and clipped. She started to exhibit a slight bit of stiffness in her hind legs. I took her in again. Based on the xrays the vet said she had a big heart and would need an ultrasound of the heart. The cardiac doctor said he couldn't get a very good view (he also said he didn't really know that much about rabbits) but he said that while her left ventricle was enlarged he didn't think the problems were related to the heart. So we took a blood test...

The blood test was unremarkable. Slightly elevated white blood cells. The doctor thought perhaps it's some kind of bacterial infection, although there are no signs of snuffles, etc. We put her on baytril and penicillin. Throughout this time, before and after, she has had diarrhea. Some days she forms round stools, other days it's just liquid. Two days after antibiotics began she lost complete use of her left hind leg. I took her back into the vet and she said that she really doesn't know what it is. It could be neurological or some kind of neuromuscular degeneration (she noted that she had weakened muscle mass in her hind legs). Meanwhile, her ears are totally crusty and getting worse. I had them check again for mites but they said there was no sign. She added panacur (in case of e. cuniculi) and revolution (for mites just in case) to the mix. She seemed to think all this was unrelated. All these symptoms developed together, or one-by-one, so I'm just not sure. So right now she is on:

panacur
penicillin
baytril
metacam (for pain)
and she has been treated with revolution

Anyone have any ideas? Are there alternative therapies I should be trying? Thanks!
 
Where actually are you? Oh dear such a lot going on with your bunny. The fact that her ears are all crusty, I'm sure means that she has got mites, and so I'm confused as to why the vet says otherwise. I hope Jack's Jane sees this post as I'm sure she will be able to point you in the right direction. Is there a possibility that she might have had a stroke. A few things you have mentioned, my bunny Roger had following his stroke. I really hope you can get some better advice, and that your bunny can start to get better.
 
Hello

To me it sounds as though your Bunny may have a few individual age related problems which are collectively causing the symptoms

The enlarged heart and respiratory symptoms sound like a clear sign of congestive heart failure. To get an accurate diagnosis you really do need a specialist who does have vast experience in treating Rabbits. I have heard of cases where less 'Rabbit Savvy' Vets have not been able to interpret U/S scans too well and have mis-diagnosed. This is not always the case, many Vets are very skilled. But occasionally mistakes can happen. So perhaps getting a second opinion from a Rabbit Specialist might be a good idea. CHF is usually treated with ACE Inhibitors and Diuretics

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/CongestiveHeartFailureRabbit.htm

The loss of muscle mass and loss of power of the hind leg may be due to age related osteoarthritis in the spine/hips

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Osteoarthritis_rabbits.htm

Rabbits with any type of hind leg weakness can get ear problems due to their inability to clean themselves very well. They can get vast amounts of wax building up in the ear canals, this can then cause mites and/or bacterial infections. If the cardiovasular system is compromised the blood circulation to the ears can be effected and dermatological conditions can develop over the outer ear- crusting, itchiness and possibly infection. A skin scraping for microscopic examination may be a useful diagnostic tool.

The use of a corticosteroid in Rabbits is something that needs to be done with extreme caution. Rabbits are very sensitive to the adverse side effects of steroids, especially the lowering of the immune system. So it *might* be why your Bunny's symptoms worsened after having the cortisone shot.

With the 'diarrhoea' is it actually unformed cecotrophs or 'true' diarrhoea ? If the latter then really the antibiotic protocol needs to be reviewed as a matter of urgency

Are you in the US ?
 
peterjames

I have said this a few times before. But get slammed for it. I think It is more times than not, kinder to have your rabbit put down. Ask your vet. can you cure it. if he say's I don't know. or he can't. Then I would have my rabbit put down, at least I know my rabbit will have no more suffering. At home I will never know how bad he is feeling. This would upset me, every time I looked at him, trying to read its mind. I have enough worries about my rabbit when he seems fit and well. I keep worrying if he is happy.
 
peterjames said:
I have said this a few times before. But get slammed for it. I think It is more times than not, kinder to have your rabbit put down. Ask your vet. can you cure it. if he say's I don't know. or he can't. Then I would have my rabbit put down, at least I know my rabbit will have no more suffering. At home I will never know how bad he is feeling. This would upset me, every time I looked at him, trying to read its mind. I have enough worries about my rabbit when he seems fit and well. I keep worrying if he is happy.
Click to expand...

What you may feel to be the correct course of action for your Rabbit cannot be applied to someone else's Rabbit. If we all gave up just because a condition cannot be cured then most of my Rabbits would be dead by now. Old age and/or chronic illness alone are not sufficient grounds to go telling anyone that their Rabbit should be PTS

Please try to be more considerate in your posts and if you cant contribute constructive advice in 'Health' dont post at all

To the OP, I do hope that you will not be put off continuing to post on here. Most of us will try to offer you help and advice as well as moral support.
 
peterjames said:
I have said this a few times before. But get slammed for it. I think It is more times than not, kinder to have your rabbit put down. Ask your vet. can you cure it. if he say's I don't know. or he can't. Then I would have my rabbit put down, at least I know my rabbit will have no more suffering. At home I will never know how bad he is feeling. This would upset me, every time I looked at him, trying to read its mind. I have enough worries about my rabbit when he seems fit and well. I keep worrying if he is happy.
Click to expand...

Oh dear, I don't think your post is very helpful. I for one would always want to give my bun a chance and find out exactly what is going on, and what the final outcome is likely to be before making such a final decision.
 
peterjames

Jack's-Jane said:
What you may feel to be the correct course of action for your Rabbit cannot be applied to someone else's Rabbit. If we all gave up just because a condition cannot be cured then most of my Rabbits would be dead by now. Old age and/or chronic illness alone are not sufficient grounds to go telling anyone that their Rabbit should be PTS

Please try to be more considerate in your posts and if you cant contribute constructive advice in 'Health' dont post at all

To the OP, I do hope that you will not be put off continuing to post on here. Most of us will try to offer you help and advice as well as moral support.
Click to expand...

I can only say what I have known from experience.. I believe that when in doubt it is better to stop unnecessary pain. As for putting a rabbit down, when suffering from old age, or a incurable disability. well I am a firm believer that this should be practiced among the human race. I am 77. I have no sympathy with those who are kept alive for the sake of keeping them alive. When I can no longer look after myself. I will die . Not appeal to be kept alive. And like my rabbit I would prefer to be given a quick painless injection. But I won't get it. I will have to die of starvation.
 
peterjames said:
I can only say what I have known from experience.. I believe that when in doubt it is better to stop unnecessary pain. As for putting a rabbit down, when suffering from old age, or a incurable disability. well I am a firm believer that this should be practiced among the human race. I am 77. I have no sympathy with those who are kept alive for the sake of keeping them alive. When I can no longer look after myself. I will die . Not appeal to be kept alive. And like my rabbit I would prefer to be given a quick painless injection. But I won't get it. I will have to die of starvation.
Click to expand...

I'm 27, I have a chronic, incurable disability. I'm in pain. Should I be given a quick painless injection then? :shock:

I really think the OP knows what's best for their bunny. You can tell when a bunny has got fight left in them. With my last bunny he had no fight and clearly wanted to die, so I let him be pts with dignity and ended his pain. Only the person who knows the bunny best can know that. I don't think you can advise on that, or even should advise on that as it will only play on the mind of the OP and make them feel more upset at what is an already difficult time.

There's no reason that a 10-year old bunny can't fight off a disease and go on to live another 2, 3 years perfectly happily, maybe even longer. If you haven't even tried then you'll never know. The OP is absolutely right to be trying to speak to a vet and find out what's wrong.

I can't advise on the health side, I'm sorry. But I wanted to offer best wishes and I hope you find an answer soon, lots of love to you and your bunny. :love:
 
peterjames said:
I can only say what I have known from experience.. I believe that when in doubt it is better to stop unnecessary pain. As for putting a rabbit down, when suffering from old age, or a incurable disability. well I am a firm believer that this should be practiced among the human race. I am 77. I have no sympathy with those who are kept alive for the sake of keeping them alive. When I can no longer look after myself. I will die . Not appeal to be kept alive. And like my rabbit I would prefer to be given a quick painless injection. But I won't get it. I will have to die of starvation.
Click to expand...

We are all entitled to our opinions, but we should not force them on others who may, for very valid reasons, disagree. You have already made your point, both here and on previous threads. Perhaps now is a good time to get this thread back to supporting the OP. If you want to start your own thread about Euthanasia, of either Animals or Humans, you could do so rather than causing unnecessary additional upset by continually posting your opinions about Euthnasia on a thread started by a person seeking advice about their Pet.
 
Jack's-Jane said:
We are all entitled to our opinions, but we should not force them on others who may, for very valid reasons, disagree. You have already made your point, both here and on previous threads. Perhaps now is a good time to get this thread back to supporting the OP. If you want to start your own thread about Euthanasia, of either Animals or Humans, you could do so rather than causing unnecessary additional upset by continually posting your opinions about Euthnasia on a thread started by a person seeking advice about their Pet.
Click to expand...

:thumb:
Well said Jane

And to the OP... hope you get some answers for your bunny x
 
Jack's-Jane said:
We are all entitled to our opinions, but we should not force them on others who may, for very valid reasons, disagree. You have already made your point, both here and on previous threads. Perhaps now is a good time to get this thread back to supporting the OP. If you want to start your own thread about Euthanasia, of either Animals or Humans, you could do so rather than causing unnecessary additional upset by continually posting your opinions about Euthnasia on a thread started by a person seeking advice about their Pet.
Click to expand...

:thumb:
Sending mega vibes for your bunny, I hope the vet can help with her problems xxx
 
thank you

Thanks for your responses - Jane - I am in the U.S. The diarheaa isn't cecotropes unfortunately. I think it might be the baytril causing it. Perhaps I should stop? I took her to a rabbit savvy vet here in Los Angeles and she was under his care up to the blood test. The problem is that he had an accident and is now in the hospital, so now my bun is being treated by a less rabbit-savvy vet in the same practice. To switch vets after all these tests have been done will cost me a fortune. I can't have an ultrasound done by another cardiologist because the ultrasound I got was $600! I'm thinking of sticking to this round of meds and treating it as a possible infection/parasite and then requesting heart medication for her regardless of what the cardiologist said if no improvement is shown. That, or a brochial vasilodator (I'm spelling it wrong) to open up her lungs and get more oxygen flowing maybe? In Terms of the posts below about euthanasia I have a very inspiring story:

My 11-year old male lop passed away after a ten-year death sentence. He had everything over the course of 10 years: GI-statis, a chronic upper respiratory infection (he was on baytril and bicillin his entire life) and TWO rounds of severe head tilt!!! This rabbit never read the manual on rabbits - HE NEVER GAVE UP! And I saw his health turn around from not being able to move or sit up and rolling around uncontrollably so that he had to spend a week immobile in a small cardboard box, to bouncing all around and dancing two months later. Trust me, he was extremely happy throughout his life. Rabbits aren't like cats and dogs. They have an incredible ability to bounce back even when the situation looks dire. When he finally went, it was peacefully in my arms by his choice. I put my cat down, but my rabbit Theo was such a fighter that it had to be his choice.

Hopefully my girl bunny will turn around too, but I urge you not to put down your bunnies too quickly. Thanks!
 
Bless her - I just wanted to ask how the penicillin is being given - is it by injection?

Also, does your bunny seem to have slightly more protruding eyes than normal? This can indicate an increase in blood pressure in the head, often caused by an enlarged heart or mass in the chest cavity.

One of my bunnies has a mildly enlarged heart which gives him slightly protruding eyes sometimes; I give him hawthorn under the supervision of my vet as this has properties which dilates blood vessels and seems to keep the pressure in his head down without the bigger risks of using various drugs as his symptoms are mild.

Hope your little one is ok x x
 
Santa said:
Bless her - I just wanted to ask how the penicillin is being given - is it by injection?

Also, does your bunny seem to have slightly more protruding eyes than normal? This can indicate an increase in blood pressure in the head, often caused by an enlarged heart or mass in the chest cavity.

One of my bunnies has a mildly enlarged heart which gives him slightly protruding eyes sometimes; I give him hawthorn under the supervision of my vet as this has properties which dilates blood vessels and seems to keep the pressure in his head down without the bigger risks of using various drugs as his symptoms are mild.

Hope your little one is ok x x
Click to expand...

The penicillin is given with injections (that's the only way to do it that's safe). I love the Hawthorne herb idea. Her eyes aren't protruding, but when my original vet gets back to work I will ask him if there are any contraindications with the other meds she is on. Thanks!
 
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