Irregular shaped poops in a very young bun

Hi everyone!

Boon and Phenom's mommy here!

So it has been a whole season since boon passed to the bridge, and we have a lovely little rose bush and engraved stone where we buried him. However we had much trouble bonding Phenom to anyone else. We tried and tried but it made her more aggressive.

So we decided to start with a young bunny which we found from a Dwarf Hotot breeder - he is mismarked so the breeder had no use for him. We named him "Kai" - Hawaiian for "ocean" which I have been waiting to see. also "Kaikaia" in Hawaiian means "little brother" - he sure could pass as a brother of Boon.

We brought him home yesterday after a very long 4 hour drive.... but, I'm freaked out. His poops are very irregularly shaped. Sometimes tiny, sometimes normal, sometimes oval or oblong.

The breeder sent us home with the pellets he's on - and said because he is a growing baby (he is about 8 weeks old) to keep the pellets and hay available at all times... I realize this is not ideal for an adult, but I'm not sure about a baby. It makes sense, but I'm terrified of having another megacolon bun. I loved my Boon SO much, that watching him go thru GI stasis every other month was incredibly painful, and losing him at only 2 years old was even more painful. I can' do that again.

Could this be normal? stress of switching homes? A baby bunny thing? Will his poops normalize?

Help! Nervous mom here. lol

Hiya :wave:

It could be the travel and changes. It must be awful for them if you think about it to leave their mum and siblings and be taken away by new people to new things.

Make sure he has lots of hay and drinks okay and see if he settles down. Lots of love and attention should help and things to play with.

Hope he settles well with you x

It's possible it could just be the changes of a new home, unless it doesn't correct over the next several days. It sounds just like my megacolon buns poop though. I have two that have it, both dwarf hotots, and unfortunately it is something that is a common risk with this breed. It sounds like your rabbit that had it, had a pretty severe case. Both of my two, have been pretty stable, and I've found that as long as I'm careful about their diet, they don't have too many problems. Neither has had stasis since I changed their diet. One doesn't get any pellets as it starts to cause stasis problems with him, the other gets a very small amount of them, less than a tablespoon a day. They get specific leafy veggies, and absolutely no sugary or carb rich treats, and grass hay that is more stems than leafy, because the extra fiber has helped normalize their poop more, and a little alfalfa hay to make up for the lack of pellets and help keep their weight up. So that's just what I've found has helped my two have less digestive problems. So if you find your new little bun does have this too, it could be that he doesn't have a bad case of it, and you'll be able to manage it well with the right diet. Usually it is better to feed baby bunnies unlimited pellets, but I didn't find that it worked well for my hotot babies. I limited mine to about 3/8 cup a day, split into 2 feedings, with unlimited timothy hay. Basically I fed enough pellets to last until about 3 hours before their second feeding. Now as adults they get about 1/8 cup a day. The one baby that had megacolon, was ok for a while on a normal amount of pellets, but as I started seeing spongy poop, or soft ones, I started decreasing his pellet amount, til the now 1 tablespoon a day. But to make up for the reduced pellets, I added in alfalfa hay to the timothy hay, along with a few leafy veggies when he was old enough, to make up for the reduced pellet amount. So if your bun does end up having megacolon, you may or may not be able to continue to feed pellets, and you may have to adjust that amount as you go along. Keeping an eye on the poop, always gave me clues if something in the diet wasn't working out.

Hopefully your little bun doesn't have it, but I just wanted to share my experience with it, so that you would know that not all megacolon buns are the same, and not all cases are severe, and can sometimes be managed well with diet. If he does end up having it, at least he came to a home where his owner has the knowledge and experience to be able to know how best to help him. Most people would have no idea about the special care these little buns need.

Thank you both!

Jbun, I really hope that he isn't a megacolon bunny in any variety...but I do realize that GI irregularity is common with this breed. *sigh*...

So, a day after I made this post, things took a turn for the worst - Kai's poop turned into long, dark wet stools... pretty close to diarrhea, every morning. We got him in to see our rabbit wise vet - the one who always treated Boon - and she did a fecal test. She said the only thing she found was Coccidia. She said that the Coccidia infection "wasn't too bad."

How could it not be "that bad"-- I thought coccidia was bad. He's had diarrhea everywhere! Is it possible that this could be from the coccidiosis? My fear is him having megacolon like Boon had.

Anyhow she prescribed him Albon to take once daily for 10 days for the coccidia..... once daily...

He is still eating and drinking, though not as much. He's very playful most of the time. I am giving him Bene-Bac as well. We're thinking the stress of his new home environment, and him playing in new places is maybe where he either picked it up or it came out from his immune system from the stress of rehoming. Breeder says the rest of his siblings are totally fine. Keeping an eye on him.

Also, the breeder said he may have still been nursing occasionally but for the most part he was on pellets and hay. He was born May 10. I'm wondering if maybe he still needs mom's milk, but the breeder said she had weaned buns much younger than him before without issues, so idk what to think.

Thoughts?

Nova, I'm not familiar with coccidosis, but other members here are. I know enough that it is pretty serious in a wee bunny.
Bumping this for you so that hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I will see it, as posts travel to the back of the bus quite quickly here.
(((((((((((((((Healing vibes))))))))))))))) for Kai. xxxx

Maybe your vet was referring to the amount of coccidia seen in the fecal. But even then coccidiosis is pretty serious and VERY contagious, so if your vet hasn't already suggested it, you will need to try and protect as best you can, your other rabbit from catching it and reinfection of your new bun, by sterilizing everything. For hard surfaces you would use a 10% ammonia solution, and make sure to rinse thoroughly. You'll probably have to do this several times as the parasite clears up over the next several days. I'm not sure what you would do for soft surfaces like carpet. Maybe you can ask your vet about it.

Yes, the diarrhea can be caused by the coccidiosis, and may also be the cause of the irregular poop that you were seeing. So it very well may be that your new bun doesn't have megacolon, and everything you were seeing was from the parasite. Once the meds start getting that under control, you should be able to tell for sure if the fecal pellets go back to normal.

I hope your little guy is feeling a little better today.

Hi bunny pals...

Kai's diarrhea has stopped for the most part, he is done with his Albon and is now on daily BeneBac for the next 5 days. However, his poop shapes are still sometimes egg shaped, or sometimes very small, or sometimes normal shaped. He also, sometimes, gets soft stools.

I am guessing this must just be his breed. I really hope it does not mean he will have frequent GI Stasis episodes like Boon had.

I miss my boon so very much.

Will keep you guys updated on how he comes along. The vet's office said he may need a second round of Albon if he still has Coccidia. If he does, I may suggest that nw medicine that can be compounded at a compounding pharmacy that is actually used to kill the oocytes of the coccidia. Eradicates it completely.

Glad to hear he's doing better. If the vet still finds coccidia, I've heard that ponzuril/toltrazuril are more effective against it. Not sure if this is what you are thinking about.

Anytime my megacolon buns have started to get soft poop, I've found that if I decrease the pellets, that it clears up. I increase their veggies and alfalfa hay to make up for less pellets. Also as I mentioned previously, when I changed them to a more coarse fiberous hay, that made a big difference too, with their poop looking better and more normalish, with less really small and large ones, and less football shaped ones. Once your buns coccidia is cleared up and if his poop doesn't start looking more normal, you could maybe give a coarser hay a try to see if it helps your little guy.

I really miss my little Dash too. She was just the sweetest girl, but was another hotot/megacolon bun. She died last year from complications with it. I really love this breed of rabbit, but it can be really hard too, because of their tendency for digestive problems.

Firstly it's nice to see you back here Nova, but I'm sad about the reason.

Several different species of coccidia can infect rabbits in different places in the gut. The good news is that only one type causes the liver problems. http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/GI_diseases/Protozoal_diseases/Cocc_en.htm

I know that you have contamination issues with your yard, which excludes my own approach of using a lot of forage for megacolon, but I would like to encourage you that megacolon buns are doing better these days, especially when a suitable diet is started early.

Sending lots of vibes, prayers, & hope for you all.

Thank you so much Jbun, and Thumps. Nice to see you too! Not under the circumstances! eeeegh. heh.

It's official, Kai is a megacolon bun. I love the hotots too, I just wish that gene would go away! So very for your loss of Dash, Jbun.

Our vet has Kai on the Ponazuril for now, "just in case" she has missed any coccidia that aren't showing up on the floatation test. I actually recommended it to the vet 'cause it seems more effective from the research I've seen, thank you Jbun for reminding me the name. Today is day 2 of a 10 day course. But after a smear and yet another fecal float, there was nothing found except an overgrowth of yeast and fungi. (I'm guessing this is from the hypomotility?) Anyway, recommended Bene-Bac and so we give him a little tube of that every few days.

One of the issues I have with having a megacolon bun is that I can not provide grass hay as I am severely allergic, and I just recently discovered a newfound allergy to alfalfa, too. I've always ordered oat and wheat hays.

These hays come from a California bunny farm lady who has a variety of hays and makes "mini bales."

I order both mature and young Oat hay and Wheat hay. I'm not allergic to either of those types...but am allergic to pretty much everything else.
Also, fresh wet greens seem to make all my megacolon buns gassy. Perhaps I should dry them out?

OH! and! Phenom has no interest in her pellets anymore, anyway, so it's good I'm looking in to a "pellet-less" diet. she will happily eat her oat / wheat hay and her poops are perfect, but snubs her pellets. Thing is, Kai doesn't like hay. He wants the pellets. *face palm*

So...I guess now... I'm wondering what kind of herbs/veggies would you guys recommend on a regular basis that would be a good supplement to their oat/wheat hay diet? Preferably something with low calcium, high fiber, etc. And something that will help fill up Kai so he doesn't want as much pellets. I hate rationing them to him, but I have to, unfortunately.

Hi Nova :wave:
I'm sorry to hear about Kai's diagnosis. I guess this is just one of the things one has to accept when picking a particular breed of rabbit. It's a terrible shame for them too.
I find mature oat to be a miracle worker for bunnies with tummy troubles as long as it doesn't cause cecotrophe trouble. (I know it is not highly caloric, but it sometimes causes the same symptoms.)
I think any bunny who is indoors and well cared for/given varied diets do not really need pellets. It's sad when they get used to having them and the transition can be lengthy. Have you considered wild forage for Kai? (bunspace dot com is a good source)
Sending vibes for your bunnies and you (((((((((((((((((((((((Nova/Phenom/Kai))))))))))))))))))))))))) xx

Hi Nova
Sorry to hear about Boon & also Kai's diagnosis.
I have no experience with megacolon buns but did have experience with megacolon kids when I was the CN of a Paeds OR!
Very different management! Although sending the megacolon kids out to forage may have helped some of them! :lol:
Thumps is a living textbook when it comes to wild feeding so we are so lucky to have her expertise.

I actually just wondered if you informed the breeder of Kai's diagnosis so she can try and exclude this issue in her breeding program?

Best of luck with getting to the bottom of your present bunny problems.

:wave: Hi Nova. I'm so sorry to hear your news but the good thing is that we've got the diagnosis early.

KB I like your humour:lol: but it's very close to the truth. We initially thought that Thumper had a type of "autoimmune" megacolon. I actually did use the human model. "The slower it moves, the more the colon distends, & the less push there is". It was also a journey of exploration, of whether we could keep things moving with fibre available to & eaten by wild rabbits, as well as using drugs, to "spin things out a bit longer".
I know that not many people are as fortunate as I am in being able to access the countryside easily.

I have always forgotten to talk about the importance of excercise in Thumper's management, because it was a way of life from the beginning.
The other important aspect is stress management as far as we can.
Stress is another big factor in causing gut slow down. We all know about pain but there are psychological factors too, & these depend very much on the temperament of your bunny.
Benjie is very nervous, so I've let him make a "burrow complex" under my bed between storage boxes, provided him with various cardboard box hidey holes with several exits, where he wants them, & done things like move the sofa a few inches away from the wall so he can have a "rabbit run" behind it.

To see the effect of stress management in a megcolon bun see Snowberry's Snowdrop. This particular bunny was less stressed as an outdoor bun & I think maybe a single bunny???? Every bun is different.

My initial comment about pellets is that rabbits only need them for the vit D3 if they are house buns who never go out. If your bun goes outside for an hour a day they don't need pellets.
The whole key to diet is the fibre content & using different types of fibre. (IMO the urinary calcium issues in buns with poor GI tract motility stem from inadequate fluid intake.)

Given that your ground is polluted, I'd suggest you get a couple of massive plant pots & grow some thornless blackberries (If they withstand your winters) They should grow fast & prolifically if fed, & provide some lignin fibre in the leaves. (You'll need a lot) Even cheaper dig a deep hole, line with strong plastic tarpaulin (you'll need to make a couple of drainage holes in the bottom) then back fill with good soil. Blackberries will need a trellis support to climb over.

There are strawberries which grow in hanging baskets, Strawberry leaves are another favourite with buns.
In both cases the buns have the leaves & you have the fruit!

Summary -Excercise
Stess management
Fibre.

Sorry about Kai having megacolon. Hopefully his is a more mild case. I'm glad that the cocci has cleared up. That's at least one less thing to have to deal with.

Thumps explanation of how fiber seems to help, makes sense. The hay I feed my boys is a mature rye/orchard grass/straw hay and that seems to have had the most positive effect on them. Oat and wheat are both grass hays. So since you are also feeding them the mature hay, that should help out quite a bit as they would have lots of fiber from it. The only thing you'll want to watch out for is a lot of seed heads in it, as the excess grain could cause problems. I know it would for my boys. The rye hay I feed has very little grain left in it.

Kai needs to be a good boy and eat his hay. They can be so picky sometimes My boy Zeus that developed stasis, and is one of my megacolon boys, wasn't used to eating hay when I got him, then he got stasis, and couldn't have pellets anymore, but he wouldn't eat hay. So I was at a bit of a loss on how to feed him at the time. I finally found some pelleted alfalfa/timothy hay at the feed store, and started feeding him that, which, thankfully, he liked to eat. Then gradually he just started eating more and more hay, so that now eating hay is no longer a problem for him. And introducing veggies wasn't a problem. When he had stasis, it was all he would eat on his own for a few days.

I don't feed too wide a variety of veggies as I'm concerned about upsetting their stomachs. I totally avoid cruciferous veggies, including the leafy ones. I mostly stick with dark green leafy lettuce, cilantro, and parsley. Sometimes carrot greens, a few dried willow leaves, raspberry leaves. I guess with your buns being susceptible to getting gas from greens, you'll just have to introduce things very cautiously. But with my boys, those few greens seem to be pretty well tolerated, and don't cause problems for them.

Jbun said:

Sorry about Kai having megacolon. Hopefully his is a more mild case. I'm glad that the cocci has cleared up. That's at least one less thing to have to deal with.

Thumps explanation of how fiber seems to help, makes sense. The hay I feed my boys is a mature rye/orchard grass/straw hay and that seems to have had the most positive effect on them. Oat and wheat are both grass hays. So since you are also feeding them the mature hay, that should help out quite a bit as they would have lots of fiber from it. The only thing you'll want to watch out for is a lot of seed heads in it, as the excess grain could cause problems. I know it would for my boys. The rye hay I feed has very little grain left in it.

Kai needs to be a good boy and eat his hay. They can be so picky sometimes My boy Zeus that developed stasis, and is one of my megacolon boys, wasn't used to eating hay when I got him, then he got stasis, and couldn't have pellets anymore, but he wouldn't eat hay. So I was at a bit of a loss on how to feed him at the time. I finally found some pelleted alfalfa/timothy hay at the feed store, and started feeding him that, which, thankfully, he liked to eat. Then gradually he just started eating more and more hay, so that now eating hay is no longer a problem for him. And introducing veggies wasn't a problem. When he had stasis, it was all he would eat on his own for a few days.

I don't feed too wide a variety of veggies as I'm concerned about upsetting their stomachs. I totally avoid cruciferous veggies, including the leafy ones. I mostly stick with dark green leafy lettuce, cilantro, and parsley. Sometimes carrot greens, a few dried willow leaves, raspberry leaves. I guess with your buns being susceptible to getting gas from greens, you'll just have to introduce things very cautiously. But with my boys, those few greens seem to be pretty well tolerated, and don't cause problems for them.

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JBun thank you for a very interesting post.
Of great interest to me is that the last grass Thumper was able to digest, was the stalky stems of wild rye.
Also Thumper would only eat a very limited diet of forage, which changed as his illness progressed.
In the end I knew more about what his gut was doing earlier, by what he was eating, than what he was poohing thus able to pre empt stasis.

My concept is very simple - like me.:lol:
Rabbits need fibre to keep their gut moving, nutrition has to be large volume & low concentration (or they get dysbiosis which can slow the gut with toxins) & fluid intake.
When the gut is slow, it's difficult for them to get enough "throughput" to meet their needs.
The 1st. thing they cut back on is water (which fills them up) but that makes the gut contents thicker & more likely to stick =stasis.
Thereafter they're in a cleft stick about whether to go for fibre to try to keep the gut moving or nutrients.
I'd watch Thumper have a day of intense fibre eating followed by increasing the food component.
I think that the very encouraging & fascinating thing is to watch them learn to keep themselves on the best path.

Thumps, that's so interesting about the rye grass. I actually just sort of stumbled onto it this summer. I had been feeding timothy hay but wasn't impressed with the quality of it. So I started looking around to buy bales of hay from a farmer, to stock up for the year. I had actually been hoping for a softer orchard grass, but this was all I could find at the time. It was kind of funny because I wasn't really impressed at the looks of it when I went to pick it up, but boy has it been good for my rabbits, and they seem to love it, often leaving their pellets in favor of it. But I have noticed a great improvement in all of my rabbits fecal poop from eating the mature rye hay. The fiber has helped all of my rabbits, not just my megacolon buns. I'm not able to feed a lot of forage, but between the hay and the little bit of forage and veggies, they seem to be doing well. When I first found out about megacolon and started researching it, your account of Thumper's illness, was one of the first things that I read. It really was incredible how, between you and him, you were able to help him manage his illness so well. I was so amazed at your dedication to the little guy, and the incredible relationship you had with him. I'm sure the experience taught you a lot as well. I know that having my own sick rabbits, has been the biggest learning experience for me. I knew nothing about digestive illness in rabbits, until I got my first megacolon rabbit. It's amazing what these little fluffy animals teach us.