Lapizole for E. Cuniculi

Luna, who is 3, was fine on Monday morning - though when I got back from seeing my Mum, she looked scared (I thought a cat had frightened her) .. Apart from that she was ok.

We had her and Ben in at night to watch Game Of Thrones (their favourite programme lol) and when my daughter went to put Luna back in her cage, Luna fell over. Hollie came in crying that there was something wrong with her and at that point her head was lolling to one side and both eyeballs were rolling slightly into her head.

Luna has had problems previously with her eye and has a cataract in her left eye ... on closer inspection we noticed this seemed bigger.

We took her to the vets and she said that this was puss from the E. Cunuculi infection and started her on Baytril right away.

I have also just had to pick up some Lapizole from the vets and am treating Luna AND her older friend Ben (who is 9) with this even though Ben is showing no symptoms .. In fact he was given a clean bill of health and pronounced ridiculously healthy for a 9 year old Netherland Dwarf.

The vet has recommended a 28 day course of Lapizole for both bunnies.

Luna is still eating .. she loves her raspberry leaves, and we've sneakily caught her eating romaine lettuce and other bits from the bowl. She is also drinking well - in fact now we have a bowl for water (because we didn't think she could co ordinate to get to the water bottle), she is drinking plenty .. and proved that by peeing on my husband last night. Hollie and I cheered .. he wasn't quite so chirpy.

Yesterday her ears were bent to the left aswell .. but this morning her ears are straight and perky as usual and she seems a little bit more co ordinated and not like the old drunk you see in the street.

She is out in the hutch with Ben at the moment and at night we bring her and Ben into the house in the indoor cage and put a puppy training liner in the bottom of the cage ... with her hay (she's still enjoying that) and a dish of food and water and a towel round the sides so she doesn't hurt herself - though Hollie said that during the night Ben was acting as her prop to sleep.

I'm just wondering if there is anything more we can do?

I am cleaning the outdoor hutch out tomorrow and spraying it with Cage Safe disinfectant and fly strike spray. They also have Tummy Care in their water.

They have an egg cup full of WAGG Bunny Mix twice a day and half a carrot each time, a leaf of Romaine Lettuce, Spinach, a little slither of banana (as they're not keen but I know it's good for them) and some raspberry leaves and lots of Timothy Hay each feed.

Any advice would be appreciated.

thank You.

Hope little Luna continues to keep happy throughout this.

I was given the same for my bun when he developed head tilt at 4 weeks of age. I had never seen this before and didn't really know what to do. In the end I would massage his neck every day after he had his meds and sort of really gently turn his head towards the right way. He was tiny and I was really careful not to hurt him. He didn't actually live with me then but I would visit to give him meds daily. He did continue to eat and drink whilst with his mum.

When I brought him home at 9 weeks I continued the massage and let him have the run of the room to build the strength in his legs. His head tilt has gone and he has just got a slightly lopsided face. He is now around 10 months old.

I would definitely give the meds to both and see if your vet thinks massage may help.

Maybe I was just lucky with this?

Hope you see good progress in Luna real soon.

Xx

Uodate on Luna

Well, the vet started both rabbits on Laprizole aswell as Luna being on anti biotics because of the puss in her eye.

She is still wobbly and goes in circles when she's stressed .. i.e. when we've forced the medicine down her .. but at least she doesn't go far !

Her eye is definitely starting to look clearer and she is eating and pooping and weeing. Hurray!

She is outside with Ben during the day and seems quite happy .. but we bring her and Ben in at night and are using the indoor cage and putting puppy trainers on the bottom to check the pees and poos.

It's still pitiful to see and I sometimes lie next to her and cry, but she HAS made an improvement. Her eyes are no longer flickering, which I hope is a good sign.

Thank you for reading.

It sounds like she's happy. Hope she continues improving

Oh .. Me too.

She is back at the vets on Tuesday to see if things have improved. Thank God I will be able to say she has.

She was out in the outdoor run/cage today and managed to walk about without falling over and bumping into things .. She was chinning everything lol.

Quote:


We took her to the vets and she said that this was puss from the E. Cunuculi infection and started her on Baytril right away.

I have also just had to pick up some Lapizole from the vets and am treating Luna AND her older friend Ben (who is 9) with this even though Ben is showing no symptoms .. In fact he was given a clean bill of health and pronounced ridiculously healthy for a 9 year old Netherland Dwarf.
end quote

Not sure if you have got a bit confused or vet not very good but you do not get puss from EC. EC is technically a parasite and does nto produce puss at all. It will produce symptoms of eye rolling and off balance etc but then so will ear and behind the eye infections

Puss would indicate an infection and, if in the ear or behind the eye may need something stronger than baytril to actually clear it. Were samples taken for checking which abx the infection would respond to?

Hmm, no samples were taken.

Luna already has a cataract in that left eye from something poking into it and she said at the bottom of that eye, there was puss .. it didn't look like the puss I know of, but more (not white) just an off brown. Her right eye was clear, but rolling.

There is no eye rolling at all now, but I will certainly mention this to the vet on Tuesday.

Luna is walking around fine although slightly wobbly .. certainly not falling over, but she does roll when we give her her meds (stress?)

Don't you wish they could talk?

Thank you for that Parsnipbun .. I will definitely ask the vet on Tuesday if she is on the correct anti biotics and that EC doesn't cause puss in the eye.

She is peeing a LOT .. especially for a 1.2lb Netherland Dwarf ! She's eating and drinking ok and nibbling on straw .. to her it almost seems like it's a nuisance, not an illness. (You know how you can tell when your rabbit goes quiet and into itself; you know then that they are seriously poorly?)

The vet looked well inside each ear and said if it were mites or an infection there are usually tissue paper bits of skin about, but each ear was clean.

???

I would repost this with a different title such as 'head rolling and pus - is it EC or not'?

you will not get a diagnosis obviously as that is not possible on-line but you will get a lot more feedback on other similar experiences.

EC definitely does NOT cause pus.

Poor Luna

It sounds as though she may have two concurrent problems, EC and a Bacterial infection. Whilst EC itself does not 'cause pus' bacterial infection can certainly develop at the site of erupted EC spores-eg the lens of the eye. The cataract, the excessive urination and the vestibular symptoms all point to EC, the pus in the eye points to a secondary bacterial infection.

I would mention the excessive urination to the Vet ASAP as this may indicate a problem with her kidneys, a result of damage caused by erupting EC spores. Sadly if this were to be the case the prognosis is less favourable and so it is important to establish exactly what is going on sooner rather than later.

She's oretty bad tonight .. rolling over a lot more, so we have started her on Recover Mixture. Yes, sorry, I forgot .. when I mentioned to Hollie about the puss in her eye the Vet had said it was an infection, hence the Baytril.

Hollie said she had her on her bed last night and when she peed .. bearing in mind Luna is a little bunny, the pee spread everywhere .. so that doesn't sound good.

I don't want her to suffer or have a **** quality of life, but when do I know when there is no more I can do?

Saffy1999 said:

She's oretty bad tonight .. rolling over a lot more, so we have started her on Recover Mixture. Yes, sorry, I forgot .. when I mentioned to Hollie about the puss in her eye the Vet had said it was an infection, hence the Baytril.

Hollie said she had her on her bed last night and when she peed .. bearing in mind Luna is a little bunny, the pee spread everywhere .. so that doesn't sound good.

I don't want her to suffer or have a **** quality of life, but when do I know when there is no more I can do?

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I would talk with the Vet again. Whilst Rabbits can make some recovery (or be able to cope with a longterm disability) from EC if it is effecting their central nervous system- ie causing head-tilt, loss of balance, rolling etc, if it is also effecting the kidneys, the kidneys cannot recover.

Is Luna receiving a non steroidal anti-inflammatory ?

I don't think so. All she was given was Baytril and Lapizole.

Saffy1999 said:

I don't think so. All she was given was Baytril and Lapizole.

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Anti-inflammatories are an essential part of the treatment for EC. It is inflammation caused by erupting EC spores that causes clinical symptoms and longterm cellular damage.

If renal impairment is an issue this will have to be taken into account when prescribing a NSAID.

Thank you ... Am taking her to the vets at 12 as she is just lying there as though she has already passed. I hate to see her like this. She took her meds this moring but then rolled around on her side for ages. She's a very nervy rabbit anyway, so this must be causing her horrendous stress. I will mention the anti inflamatory to the vet.

Update on Luna .. Sunday tea time.

We decided not to take her to the vet after all as the one on duty wasn't rabbit savvy and impllied that it would probably be kindest to have her put down.

Talking on the phone to someone who has a rabbit with this condition she said so long as Luna was eating and drinking, peeing and pooping and safe .. i.e. in a small cage surrounded by towels, so she can't hurt herself when she rolls, which she is doing so terribly now, to persevere.

I will be taking her to the vets for her check on Tuesday, but have been informed of another vet about 9 miles from us who is specially ttrained in rabbit care, so I will take her there after seeing the vet this week and hearing what she has to say.

I don't know whether I'm doing the right thing ... it's pitiful to see her unable to hold her head up and rolling around the floor unable to stand or co-ordinate any part of her body .. she then goes very still, sometimes in a wierd position .. i.e. on her back, contorted .. and lies there for a while ... starts rolling again and the same thing happens.

I just hope I'm doing the right thing and not letting her suffer unneccasarily. My daughter is adamant she will not be put to sleep as other rabbits have survived, but Luna is a nervy rabbit anyway and I am worried that the stress this will obviously be causing her is cruel.

Opinions please.

It is really difficult for us to say without seeing her and knowing her - however I have had several buns that have recoevered from rolling etc this badly when it has been caused by EC.

Two in particular went on to live another 8 years each!

I think you are right to go to a rabbit specialist - as just from what was on here the other didnt seem that clued up about bunny problems.

Have you got her in a small space jammed between cushions or towels for support? Thats what we did whilst they were bad.

In a carry case with towels either side to keep in position and move them back upright as necessary.

If it is EC I would expect a vet t give panacur/lapizole, and metacam/meloxivet and also at this stage some eye drops to keep eyes moist if not blinking properly and some anti-naeisea medicine (rabbits cannot be sick but they can feel dizzy so this helps that).

If not EC then looking in ears and eye - probably scan under sedation for abcess and taking samples for culturing and strong appropriate antibiotic.

Thank you .. She was SAT UP this morning .. Still a little wobbly but she came towards me when I gave her a lettuce leaf.

We will do all we can for her .. She's part of the family and we will care for her as one.

Will let you know how we get on at the vets.

Super Duper ... when I went to collect the medicine from the vets last week (as they had to order it in), the receptionist gave me the WRONG DOSE ! Luna should, in fact, have been having 8 times as much as we have been giving her. Needless to say I put in a complaint and pointed out the receptionist who gave it to me and worked out the dose.

Am so angry.

Better news .. Luna has been washing herself and trying to sit up this morning .. so is having a better day than yesterday thank goodness.

I've just seen this thread!

I am battling EC with Cleo. Its been ongoing since 30th April. She was okish for the first week then took a severe turn, and lost mobility and only now this last week are we seeing some improvement. At her worst, her head looked like it was on upside down and if she was moved she'd just roll, but one thing that hasn't left her is her appetite and alertness and this is why we have carried on so long. She would lay in the most odd positions sometimes at her worst. Even now when she comes out of her cage she'll prefer to lay there just on her back! Its what feels best for them at the time and how they are most comfy, and less dizzy.

She can now sit up and hop although she needs support on her left side or she falls and rolls, she can drink from a bottle and wash herself. She's even been digging her bedding and rolling a ball about with her nose. Her head is about 90 degrees tilted now, although a bit more so when shes properly resting. Its taken 6 weeks to see this much improvement so it may be much longer until she can hop without needing support, but as long as she's happy to plod along then so are we.

You are doing a great job with Luna. Its such a long illness and can often be one step forward, three steps backward. But as long as there are even slight improvements, and she's eating and alert you have everything to fight for. She will tell you if she is fed up with it all. Many, many times i've questioned if im cruel and doing the right thing when she was unable to really do anything but now i see the improvement she's made and i know that persevering with her was the right thing.

If it helps, Cleo had a 6 weeks course of lapizole, metacam daily, a two week course of zithromax to cover for ear infection and fucithalmic for her sore down eye.

Her lapizole finished almost 3 weeks ago. She's been on metaclopramide injections twice daily now for almost two weeks and since having these is when we've noticed the greatest improvement. Aside from that, she's only on the metacam, eye drops if we think she needs them and fibreplex to help her tummy with all the meds she's had.