U/D 23rd July - Bone Cancer in jaw (with pic)

Hi Everyone

I don't post on here very often but I'm looking for a bit of advice from all you bunny folk if that's ok?

My 8yr old mini lop Daisy has been diagnosed with Osteosarcoma in her jaw. The biopsy results came back yesterday morning. There isn't any treatment just a daily dose of Metacam. In herself she's fine and unless you actually felt the lump you wouldn't know here was anything wrong however, she is starting to take a little longer than usual to eat her nighttime veggies.

My question is, I know there will come a point when she starts to feel more pain and I'm not sure that one dose of Metacam a day will be enough. I read another post on here about splitting the dose in to two separate doses. Have any of you done this and did it provide more pain relief?

Also, do any of you have any advice about if there is anything could be given in addition to the Metacam? As I said, for the moment she is fine but the tumour has grown quite rapidly in just over a month, it's probably doubled in size. What she has is clearly growing fast and I want to ensure that her time is a comfortable as possible. We lost her bonded partner Denzil to skin cancer last year so we have both been through a tough time.

Thanks everyone

Holly xxx

Sorry Holly, can't help but wanted to send Daisy noserubs.... brave girly

Hugs to you too

Fee xxx

My ava had the same but we went straight in with the twice daily metacam then progressed on to tramadol when she got really sore
Metacam is metabolised in 12 hours in a bunny so should ideally be given twice in a day Ava did well on this for a good few months I also chopped up her veg then progressed onto puree
Massive hugs to you both x

Thank you both for your replies.

Willowflower - did you give the daily dose split in to two separate doses? Daisy is 2.4kg so is on a 2.4 dose of Cat Metacam from the supplied syringe.

Thanks

Holly

Are you using the syringe that goes in kg? If so that's a very low dose of metacam as its the cat one your using
I would suggest discussing with your vet
I used dog metacam for ava she was 2kg so got 0.8mls twice a day
The metacam dose is 0.6mg/kg so for daisy it'd be 0.6 x 2.4 / 0.5mg/ml which equals to 2.8ml twice daily
If using dog metacam it'd be less volume as the concentration is higher but I muststress you check with your vet as there May be a reason he has prescribed the low dose

Yeah it's the kg syringe that came in the box. It was initially prescribed after the X-rays and biopsy last weekend which were done under GA but when I got the results of the biopsy yesterday they gave me a large bottle of Cat Metacam but said to continue with the same dose - 2.4 on the kg syringe.

To be honest I didn't know if this was right or wrong so didn't say anything to them. I also asked if I needed to take her in to see them for a check up or anything and they said only if she took a turn for the worst or if I was concerned. Bit of a daft thing to say as I've been concerned for weeks hence the persistence for a biopsy and X-ray.

Do you think the lower dose could've been prescribed due to her not have any affects from the tumour yet?

I'll carry on within until I speak to the vet.

Xxx

I've just had a look at the leaflet that came in the box and it says 0.05mg per kg and its 0.5ml/mg strength which does work out at 0.24 which is what the vet prescribed (granted the leaflet is obviously aimed at treating cats!). Do vets normally prescribe higher than this? I'm sure this is what I've always had to do both with Daisy and Denzil.

Have I been advised wrong? Sorry for all the questions but I just want to do right by Daisy.

Thanks!!

Rabbits metabolize it differently so need much higher doses it is off licence meaning not designed for rabbits but specialist rabbit vets prescribe twice daily Evan is on 0.8ml twice daily at the minute (dog metacam)
Your vet hasn't advised wrongly its just you may find that dose will eventually become ineffective if she is eating and drinking still I would just ring and chat to the vet
Is your vet rabbit savvy? Do they treat many cases like daisy

Thanks Willowflower, I'm going to ring them today.

My vets haven't seen Osteosarcoma in a rabbit before apparently (the vet with a special interest in oncology said it is quite rare in rabbits) and neither had they seen the type of melanoma that Denzil had last year. I think they have more experience with dogs and cats as cases they refer to are usually from either of those types of animal. Saying that they are very caring and I do trust them, I just find that they often err on the side of caution with my rabbits which is possibly whats happening with the Metacam for Daisy.

I'll keep you posted on what the vets say.

Thanks again

Just spoke to the senior nurse at the vets who spoke to my usual vet and they won't up the dosage of Metacam at all. I've got an appointment for Daisy tonight so they can check her over but they only thing they will do is give me Tramadol to give alongside the Metacam. Does this sound right? They were quite insistent that they wouldn't up the dosage of Metacam at all.

Thanks

Hi how did the appointment go? Is it possible for your vet to contact a specialist? Its good they will give you tramadol as it really does help with bone pain

Morning:wave:

The vet appointment went well. My vet is waiting for a call back from a local specialist who he attended a rabbit CPD course with recently. He had a few questions about tramadol. He's calling me today with the information. So it's likely I'll pick it up this week. With regards to Metacam, he's doubled the dosage so Daisy is having her normal dose in the morning after breakfast then the same at night after her tea.

I'm so glad I went back and chatted to my vet about it so thanks for your advice. I know it's palliative care for Daisy but at least I can be confident that I'm doing all I can to keep her as pain free for as long as possible.

Thanks again xxx

That's good I'm glad your vet is willing to listen a vet prepared to be open can be as good as a specialist if you can have trust in them.
Vibes for the little one x

U/D Osteosarcoma in Jaw

Hi Everyone

Just a quick update on Daisy - she is currently on 2 doses of cat Metacam a day, one after breakfast, the other after tea. She doesn't seem to be in a tremendous amount of pain now she is on 2 doses so I haven't yet started the tramadol that the vet gave to me on Tuesday. She also has Biolapis in her water daily.

I checked her over last night and this morning and the tumour has spread upwards and is now about 5mm away from her eye. She has also started to drool/dribble excessively so that the fur under her chin is constantly wet. I'm unsure whether this is due to the tumour alone or whether there are dental issues as well (incidentally, the vet did say her teeth were fine last weekend). She is also doing a chewing motion quite often as well, presumably to try to get rid of the excess saliva that she is producing.

She is eating slower now yet still manages to run around and play.

I don't know what else I can do. The vets have been quite honest and have said there is nothing that can be done apart from palliative care and I don't want to keep taking her to the vets for them to look at her but with her drooling and the tumour moving so close to the eye I am obviously extremely worried about what to do next

Here is a photo of her which I took last night. You can see the lump on the side of her face.


Thanks for reading everyone

xx

Hi Everyone

An update on Daisy - she is now drooling/dribbling excessively. I called my vet yesterday and they said it was just part of the effects of the tumour growing in her mouth. She is still eating (albeit a little slower than usual) but the drooling is obviously agitating her. She is doing a chewing motion a lot and the wet fur does smell. The photo below was just taken, it shows the drooling and the wet fur around her mouth.

I'm considering taking her to a more rabbit savvy vets. My vets are good but they haven't seen this type of a cancer in rabbits before so aren't really sure what to do other than palliative care. I know that palliative care is the only option really as operating on her isn't possible but I'm worried that there are other things I could be doing to make her later days more comfortable - especially with the drooling.

Any advice either on care or a rabbit savvy vet in the Birmingham area? I found Manor Vets in Edgbaston, has anyone used them?



Thanks!

Sweetie said:

Hi Everyone

An update on Daisy - she is now drooling/dribbling excessively. I called my vet yesterday and they said it was just part of the effects of the tumour growing in her mouth. She is still eating (albeit a little slower than usual) but the drooling is obviously agitating her. She is doing a chewing motion a lot and the wet fur does smell. The photo below was just taken, it shows the drooling and the wet fur around her mouth.

I'm considering taking her to a more rabbit savvy vets. My vets are good but they haven't seen this toe of a cancer in rabbits before so aren't really sure what to do other than palliative care. I know that palliative care is the only option really as operating on her isn't possible but I'm worried that there are other things I could be doing to make her later days more comfortable - especially with the drooling.

Any advice either on care or a rabbit savvy vet in the Birmingham area? I found Manor Vets in Edgbaston, has anyone used them?



Thanks!

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Oh, your poor little baby. I have no advice but I just wanted to say I hope you find a vet who can offer her a little more in terms of palliative care.

Thanks Yaretzi.

Its so sad. She lost her mate in January last year to skin cancer and now she has bone cancer. From what I've been told both are quite rare in rabbits, particularly this type of bone cancer. I'm starting to wonder if there is something that I've been doing wrong that may have caused both of their illnesses

Awwww, just read this thread for the first time, you are doing an amazing job for your little bunny.

I'm afraid I have no advice but I am pretty sure there is an amazing rabbit vet at Edgbaston called Marie Kubiac. I don't have any experience but just know when I moved away from Birmingham she moved to the practice and I thought 'oh that's just sods law'. I am sure she could offer some advice.

ETA: You've done nothing wrong, you've looked after your rabbits well so they have reached a good age and old age often leads to more problems, you should be a proud bunny owner

Poor girl, I am really sorry she is having this battle, I hope you can find a good specialist. Maybe start a thread in rabbit chat titled 'Rabbit specialist vet needed near......'

Thanks Janey.

I'm pretty sure that Maria Kubiac is at Manor Vets so I'll probably give them a call and see if she can see Daisy. I trust my vet but theres something in me that needs a second opinion - even if they just say the same as my current vet - I just need peace of mind.

Thanks Aliduncan - thats a good idea. I'll see how I get on with Manor Vets and start a new post if I can't get in to see them.

Thanks All