Artie's health problems U/D have defeated him..

There's been quite a few days in the last year, in the last few months in particular where he's been very quite and not eaten much during the day and like some miracle late afternoon/evening he's really bright and pestering for attention. He's been very quiet and hidden away all day.

He's in kidney failure and only has one kidney, for those who don't know, he's also the whole world to me and facing the day I loose him has filled me with dread for so long

I don't know if I'll know 'when'. He's been breathing quickly for about a month but it doesn't seem to distress him. (calcium building up in his aorta and lungs apparently). On the very hot day we had he seemed very lethargic but was bouncing around in the evening. Today hasn't been warm. He's been hidden away nearly all day. I had to rush Erin to the vets this morning as she wasn't eating so was away from him for 2.5 hours when I really wanted to watch him closely. He ate hardly any of the banquet I'd left him in that time but started eating spring greens spontaneously when I returned. He has had bits to eat but hasn't been eating properly for a while. There's been hardly any poo in the last 24 hours, though the day before they were bigger than they'd been for a few weeks. I've seen him eating hay yesterday that he hasn't done for a couple of weeks previously.

*sigh*. I don't want to leave him in misery but he's been so bright for part of the day consistently always so I don't know when I decide it's a blip or if this is "it". I've never had to make this decsion before. He looks good, apart from being thin. He's been well within himself.

Don't know what I want anybody to say but I just can't do this on my own

Oh and Erin's back home as she just had some hay stuck in her extracted-tooth hole so in theory should be eating but is hardly touching her food, not a distraction I want at the moment... though she is the one I'm relying on to pick me up when Artie is no longer with me.

I'm so sorry to hear about your awful and sad predicament.

I hope you can enjoy the remaining time you have left with him - and that it is as long as it can be.

Lots of love.

I totally empathise with you

Maybe it would help Artie feel better for more of the day if he had some subcutaneous fluids to try to support what little renal function he now has ? Not sure how OK you are about doing SQs though ?

If he is at all dehydrated that alone will make him feel really rubbish.

I am so sorry, it's awful when they get old. I'm sure you will know when it's the right time. I hope it's not too soon xx

Jack's-Jane said:

I totally empathise with you

Maybe it would help Artie feel better for more of the day if he had some subcutaneous fluids to try to support what little renal function he now has ? Not sure how OK you are about doing SQs though ?

If he is at all dehydrated that alone will make him feel really rubbish.

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Thanks. I wish I was more hands on as I think that is out of my scope. He feels thinner than normal to me so that could indicate dehydration. He's not looking in pain just not really with it - a bit like how they present on the morphine based painkillers. I *think* you'd expect anaemia at the end, probably that's why he's spacey? He's spontaneously eating bits every now and again. he washes my face if I lean into his hide away to see him I'm really not ready for this yet The 20 mile trip to his usual vet would be unfair but it's only 10 minutes to our local vets. I took him to see FHB 2 weeks ago and he's not been right since, I think the trip was too much for him. I weighed it up and feel so bad for getting it wrong.

Edit to add. I've just realised you meant SQ for each day not a one of to help him. I think I could do it if it gave him some quality back... not sure how much benefit it would be overall as I know there's so much going wrong re poisoning his system with toxins etc too.

I'm so sorry to read this. I'll be sending vibes both for Artie and Erin and some huge (((((((hugs)))))))) for you too. xxxx

I have lost one pet to kidney failure (my Bridge dog, Shadow) and I don't know if it's the same in rabbits, but his illness was protracted over his last few weeks. He did a lot of up and down for months previous, but once the kidneys couldn't cope any longer it was pretty obvious.
He did have time that we could've taken him in and helped him to the bridge during the decline and known it was the right time but I had a tussle with OH over it who wasn't ready to say goodbye. Ergo I think it was a bit long that we left it. Won't ever forgive myself for that.

I hope that this is just a blip for Artie and that he will be chipper again and have some more happy time with you. xxxx

Bunny Buddy said:

Thanks. I wish I was more hands on as I think that is out of my scope. He feels thinner than normal to me so that could indicate dehydration. He's not looking in pain just not really with it - a bit like how they present on the morphine based painkillers. I *think* you'd expect anaemia at the end, probably that's why he's spacey? He's spontaneously eating bits every now and again. he washes my face if I lean into his hide away to see him I'm really not ready for this yet The 20 mile trip to his usual vet would be unfair but it's only 10 minutes to our local vets. I took him to see FHB 2 weeks ago and he's not been right since, I think the trip was too much for him. I weighed it up and feel so bad for getting it wrong.

Edit to add. I've just realised you meant SQ for each day not a one of to help him. I think I could do it if it gave him some quality back... not sure how much benefit it would be overall as I know there's so much going wrong re poisoning his system with toxins etc too.

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Fluid therapy may buy him a few more weeks, but you do need to weigh up how stressful he may find it.

Does his mouth smell 'nasty', like old wee ?

Also, in end stage renal failure mouth ulcers can occur. So that could be a factor to consider.

Jack's-Jane said:

Fluid therapy may buy him a few more weeks, but you do need to weigh up how stressful he may find it.

Does his mouth smell 'nasty', like old wee ?

Also, in end stage renal failure mouth ulcers can occur. So that could be a factor to consider.

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No, his breath smells okay (he licks my face often so I get a good chance to monitor it). FHB had a good look in his mouth when she saw him two weeks ago as I said he wasn't eating hay. She said his teeth may no longer be up to it, she didn't mention mouth uclers but I'd done a lot of Googling so felt that is what she was looking for also. He's always travelled really well up until this year when he seems to cope with the journey okay but is out of sorts for a few days afterwards. I kind of wonder if I went the fluid therapy route if I'd be doing it for my benefit rather than his. I know all his systems are deteriorating, I'm worried in supporting his hydration that something else nasty is making him feel poorly and just making things worse for him. I wish he could tell me. Whilst he's hidden away now he seems bright enough and has just devoured the strawberry leaves I gave him. He would normally be heading across for a cuddle as soon as he's eaten, it's what he does.... but hasn't today. He has left his hideway to come out for a cuddle but I feel he did it for me, not so much because it was what he wanted. I wish you could know for certain you are getting it right for them, he deserves everything to be as good as possible.

Thanks to all of you who kindly replied and especially Jane for the advice.

Artie did come out of his hideway last night and wandered about, foraged etc, not his usual self but reasonably lively/active. At one point he ran the length of the room when he suddenly decided to visit me so really showed some of his spark

I spent a couple of hours during the night with him and he was reasonably active, as good as you could hope for. He spontaneously came and sat with me a few times but didn't completely relax for a cuddle just kind of hovered, licked my face loads. I did wonder if it was bone pain in how he just wasn't relaxing.

I've spoken to one of his vets at length this morning and she doesn't feel it's right to call it a day just yet, given that he has been bright for much of the time recently. We've decided to see if giving him Metacam will help, if it does then we'll assume he's in pain; if it doesn't we'll assume it's the toxic stuff in his blood stream and we can't improve that. So, here's hoping he feels better on Metacam - he certainly had no trouble eating that as he loves it.

lots of vibes for artie xx

I really hope that the Metacam will enable him to feel more comfortable xx

mini lop1 said:

lots of vibes for artie xx

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Jack's-Jane said:

I really hope that the Metacam will enable him to feel more comfortable xx

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Thank you.

I don't want to jinx anything but he's just had a dandelion laced with Zantac, with huge enthusiasm and now he's eating some raspberry leaves, there is a brightness in his eyes that was absent yesterday When I leaned into his hideaway (where he would be this time of day anyway) he was approaching me to see what I had - he didn't really do that yesterday. Fingers crossed that he's perked up a bit.

Edit to add: I did discuss SQ fluids with the vet but she felt the amount of injections needed to be effective and probably would be outweighed the stress that would cause. Obviously if it was to get him through a bad patch like post surgery I'd consider it but for palliative care I don't think it's worth the stress. I'm so pleased I didn't ahve to syringe his Zantac, so much better that he ate it on food (even if it did have to be dandelion).

Even more edit: He's eating a pile of grass with great enthusiasm That's only one dose of Metacam, I asked the vet who saw Erin this morning (Ruth), how long it might take and she said it could be a cummulative effect of a few days, could be sooner.

So pleased to hear that Artie is now feeling happier. Long may it continue xx

Sorry to hear about Artie. I hope he has some time with you yet. Its must be very hard to see him getting older and having health issues.

I am glad he has had a good day today and enjoying his food.

Thanks again for the support.

He's still not really sparkly but it might be, as Ruth said, that it takes a while for the Metacam to have enough effect to make him feel properly better.

He didn't see me immediately when I got in from work but when he did see me darted over to see me. During this evening he's been to ask for a cuddle (only once but still good), and when I nipped out to the loo he was waiting by the door for me, which is his usual evening behaviour. I keep the treats on the landing so pick one up as I re-enter the room so he makes sure I don't forget. He even scrabbled at my ankles, which is a really good sign.

He's just gobbled down a second dose of Metacam and Zantac, I'm so pleased he's taking them well.

I've decided to block off his shelf as he was up there the night before he was unwell and a few weeks ago when he had bene on his shelf I heard a thud and when I went to investigate he seemed very aggitated and ran to the back of his hideway and didn't want to come out. He was out of sorts for a day or two, I convinced myself it was the end then too. I had wondered if he had fallen off his shelf and put a barrier up the side of it, but I now wonder if jumping down the steps to his shelf is enough to cause/exacerbate pain and make him unwell. It's not worth the risk so I'm blocking it off. I had thought that too much calcium in bones would mean they were still strong but read at the weekend that they would actually be weaker so *maybe* restricting jumping activity is needed anyway.

Very happy update

Well that Metacam is wonderful stuff - you would never believe that 4 tiny drops of liquid could make so much difference

He raced over to greet me this morning. Ten minutes later when I took breakfast to him he was alert and waiting for me delivering his brekky (very conscious and aware of the routine), ate with enthusiasm. He's still only eaten 1/2 the spring green leaf but that's been the pattern for a while, I'm certain in an hour or so he will go back to the other half, in the more distant past he would have eaten it in one sitting like the others. Another thing that tells me he's feeling good is that straight after he'd finished his meal he ran over to me for a cuddle - he does this after a green meal, it's really cute, I've noticed Tink and Rudy always have a snuggle straight after a meal and Artie seeks me out the same

He's gone back to his hideaway, again, normal routine, he's sat preening and looks really bright.

I'm so lucky we have such good vet care and they knew it wasn't right to call it a day. I'm angry with myself for not realising he was in pain though, I described his demeanour as "like when he had the kidney stones" so why didn't I recognise he was in pain? He was also the same straight after he came of the Metacam after 4 years so why didn't the penny drop? *hangs head in shame*

MimzMum said:

I'm so sorry to read this. I'll be sending vibes both for Artie and Erin and some huge (((((((hugs)))))))) for you too. xxxx

I have lost one pet to kidney failure (my Bridge dog, Shadow) and I don't know if it's the same in rabbits, but his illness was protracted over his last few weeks. He did a lot of up and down for months previous, but once the kidneys couldn't cope any longer it was pretty obvious.
He did have time that we could've taken him in and helped him to the bridge during the decline and known it was the right time but I had a tussle with OH over it who wasn't ready to say goodbye. Ergo I think it was a bit long that we left it. Won't ever forgive myself for that.

I hope that this is just a blip for Artie and that he will be chipper again and have some more happy time with you. xxxx

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Thanks so much for this. I didn't reply directly at the time but read it and it helped. I have previously lost a rabbit I had a very close bond with that I now believe had kidney failure, though I had no idea she was seriously ill at the time. I crucifies me what she went through and I'm determined never to let that happen again. I suspect I'll do a lot of 'what if it was too soon?" but that has to be better than knowing it was left too long.

Glad he's feeling better Hope he can remain happy and comfortable for a long time yet. Sending lots of vibes for Artie xx

He's looking like he feels **** again

He had his metacam and zantac about 3 hours ago. If he feels bad after he's eaten it's likely to be nausea effect that's making him feel bad.

*oh god*

vibes for hm to feel better xx