C&S tests vs trial and error meds wise for snuffles?

Ellie finished her 3 week course of Baytril 11 days ago. Had a follow up vet visit on Sat as she'd been off meds for a week, vet had a listen to her and thought that the on/off wheezing she does is highly likely to be scarring from her infection.

I thought she may be right til tonight. Bless Ellie she's really blocked up and noisy right now. Back to the vets tomorrow, but I dont know which route to go down, how do you decide? I'm thinking as she's been abx free for nearly 2 weeks is a C&S the best way or just to trial another and see how we get on.

Snuffles is so mean

I personally went for the C&S route, as the longer it takes to get on top of it, the more damage it does to the bun, and it must be very distressing for them. My vet is a rabbit only vet, and said that Baytril tends to be ineffective in treating 'snuffles', he did explain why, but I can't remember it now. My bun was therefore put onto Septrin, but then had a course of Penicillin injections, and quickly made a full recovery. I do remember why he said Penicillin is so effective, because it tends to release slowly into the blood stream, and so catches and kills all the bacteria circulating round the body, but the others, and Baytril I think, releases very quickly, and so is unlikely to kill all the bacteria, which is why buns tend to have these flare-ups.

To answer your question, only 1/3 of snuffles is caused by pasteurella, another 1/3 by borditella bronchiseptica, & the rest is a mixture including some more commonly found in humans.
So yes even if sometimes the results don't help they're very well worth doing.

There are many other things we should be doing to help the ABx to work. I've written some long posts on this thread which may help you.
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?386322-A-couple-of-snuffles-questions

poor bun

i think you have two options now:

1. try a stronger medication and do so for a longer course. something like penicillin injections maybe, and for three months... also begin metacam for any swelling. i found that this made a difference aswell.

2. because she has been off the meds for nearly two weeks anyway, go for the c+s tests now and have everything checked. at the same time they do the test, they can fully check her nose and throat area, remove any mucus build up at the back of the nose to give you a head start, check how bad the inflammation is, and any scarring and they can also take xrays of her skull to make sure it's not caused by something else. matt also had his tear ducts flushed at one stage aswell.

i think i've said this before, but sometimes c+s testing is negative, in which case you'll have to try a new med in the meantime anyway, and then repeat the c+s test again if nothing is working. also, the test may show meds that should work, however these can be ones already tried sometimes that should have worked, but because of the mucus, or swelling, they didn't, so that's where nebulising becomes essential really, to get right into where it's needed, and work better.

i can't remember if you said your vet was rabbit savvy?? if not, i really suggest moving vets. it made all the difference when we did. i wish we had done it sooner.

it depends on how bad she is as to which route to go down. personally, i don't think that baytril is the right choice, and the course was definitely not long enough. i fear that even if the baytril was extended to 6weeks - 3months, that it still wouldn't be enough, as baytril rarely is for this type of problem. i think it needs something strong to tackle it head on right away as it gets out of control quite quickly and causes damage in the meantime.

i always say it but nebulising is the best thing we ever started. :thumb:

As always, thanks for posting. I'm thinking C&S too...bless her, they'll have to sedate her and that scares me silly though. She's right as rain this morning, she's always fine during the day, its just the evenings she's snotty. Don't know if that means anything.

I'm using bisolvon on her herbs in the mornings, probably a sprinking as much as my little finger nail...was never told how much to use so if thats not right pls say.

luckily she doesn't seem bothered by it at all, she's eating fine, thats what makes me feel really cruel to put her in for the tests. I just want her better as quick as possible so the permanent damage is reduced.

I switched vets to Tracy's, they sorted her 3 buns when they had pasteurella, so they come highly recommended

edited to add...she also recommended trying 0.1ml of Piriton medicine to see if its an allergy...anyone tried this? She admitted it was only one bunny she knows that got sorted by this...so her words 'hardly a clinical trial' :lol: made me laugh a bit, but said it wouldnt do any harm...any success stories here??

LainiT said:

As always, thanks for posting. I'm thinking C&S too...bless her, they'll have to sedate her and that scares me silly though. She's right as rain this morning, she's always fine during the day, its just the evenings she's snotty. Don't know if that means anything.

I'm using bisolvon on her herbs in the mornings, probably a sprinking as much as my little finger nail...was never told how much to use so if thats not right pls say.

luckily she doesn't seem bothered by it at all, she's eating fine, thats what makes me feel really cruel to put her in for the tests. I just want her better as quick as possible so the permanent damage is reduced.

I switched vets to Tracy's, they sorted her 3 buns when they had pasteurella, so they come highly recommended

edited to add...she also recommended trying 0.1ml of Piriton medicine to see if its an allergy...anyone tried this? She admitted it was only one bunny she knows that got sorted by this...so her words 'hardly a clinical trial' :lol: made me laugh a bit, but said it wouldnt do any harm...any success stories here??

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when lots of things weren't working for matt, he was tried with piriton aswell. i can't remember if it was 1/4 of a tablet, or 1/2.. i think a quarter... but it was just tried to see if it was an allergy, even though they are rare. it didn't work unfortunately but was worth a try to rule things out.

We used piriton for Bluebell.

He had a respitory infection but tree pollen definately exasterbated this. We used the pediatric syrup but it was more than 0.1ml, I think it was more like 0.5-1ml. It definately helped ease the allergy side of his symptoms though did make him a little sleepy at first. Of course he still had an actual infection so it didn't cure him completely.

We had a c&s test done for Bluebell and although it didn't give us any answers im glad I tried it as it was very distressing changing meds all the time, we tried about 5 before we found one that had any effect at all.

Would Piriton and Bisolvon affect the c&s or is that just antibiotics?

LainiT said:

Would Piriton and Bisolvon affect the c&s or is that just antibiotics?

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Just the antibiotics.
Just thinking you might do better with a NSAID eg metacam to reduce swelling rather than Piriton.We're barely at the beginning of the pollem season down here.
There's the added advantage of pain relief. (Upper respiratory tract infections are jolly painful for humans!) Pain suppresses the immune system quite severely in rabbits.

thumps_ said:

Just the antibiotics.
Just thinking you might do better with a NSAID eg metacam to reduce swelling rather than Piriton.We're barely at the beginning of the pollem season down here.
There's the added advantage of pain relief. (Upper respiratory tract infections are jolly painful for humans!) Pain suppresses the immune system quite severely in rabbits.

Click to expand...

Thanks Thumps...its strange, she's fine tonight v weird, she's an indoor bun and had a couple of hours outside in the run this afternoon again...but we've had a bit of drizzle, don't know if that makes a difference in bunny world.:? will be asking about the metacam, thankyou. Gonna call the vet tomorrow and get her booked in for the C&S for next week.