E. cuniculi advice for future

My 5 year old bunny developed a head tilt on Wednesday - she was fine on Tuesday night and then in the morning on Wednesday, she had a head tilt, nystagmus (flickering eyes) and was unbalanced. We took her to the vet immediately and started her on 28 days fenbendazole, metacam and enrofloxacin (Baytril). We've also been massaging her neck and keeping it straight for 15 minutes every day, in an attempt at physiotherapy rehabilitation, and feeding her Critical Care and fluids to ensure her needs are all covered - around 100mls fluid and 160mls Critical Care.

She's been responding to all of this and now, by the third day, she's running around, got a lot of personality back, not circling as much and the nystagmus is almost completely gone - I have to look really closely for quite a while to see any flickering. She's also started eating quite a bit more hay and carrots/greens/apple so we're trying to wean her off Critical Care a bit by taking that down to around 60mls, in an attempt to make her eat a bit more herself. We can't take her off it completely because she isn't drinking herself. However, I have a few queries that I wondered if more experienced rabbit owners could help with:

1.) She's still not drinking herself and will only take pineapple juice from a syringe - I've tried herbal teas and water, both through a syringe and by offering the water bottle or a bowl, but she just doesn't seem to want to drink. Have any forumers had bunnies with E. cuniculi (or Pasteurella, since we don't know which it is), did any of those bunnies take a while to get drinking again and how did you manage it? She's not dehydrated and is getting a certain amount of fluid in the apple/greens/grass, but not enough for me to feel confident taking her off Critical Care (since I feel most of her fluid requirements are fulfilled by that at the moment).
2.) What should I do in the future to prevent her and her male partner (who is also getting fenbendazole for 28 days) getting clinical signs from E.cuniculi? I'm really hoping once she gets over this bout, she's not more prone to getting another bout. I saw something about 9 days fenbendazole once a year and keeping the environment clean and stress-free - is this right? Should I clean them out as soon as I see any wee in their litter tray? Usually I leave a bit of faeces and urine in there to keep them litter-trained, or else they start to wee all over the cage.
3.) Some websites seem to mention giving Ivermectin as well as fenbendazole. Has anyone done this?

Sorry for such a long post. I just want to do my utmost for our bunny. She's come such a long way in three days but it is a slow process and I can't believe it's only been three days! We haven't got a rabbit-savvy vet (that I know of) near us.

Thank you so much for any advice anyone can give - a lot of you are much more experienced than us and it'd be great to get some reassurance or further advice for what we can do.

Main thing - don't give up, she may lapse and appear worse again before she finally recovers.

The spores can live outside the body for up to 28 days. A one part bleach / nine parts water left on for thirty seconds before rinsing off thoroughly in water will kill the spores.

I had a rabbit with severe head tilt (EC confirmed through titre / symptoms / response to treatment) and she went on to have another good three years of life, she actually died 2 weeks ago from a clot after having a totally unrelated issue with a tumour in her paw. Both Buttercup and her partner Squirrel were treated with panacur once every 8 months or so and I would bleach clean everything every 28 days as well as the basic washing and changing of trays / bedding etc on a two daily basis. We never saw a re-occurrence fortunately although I understand this is possible.

Your bun may just not feel thirsty as she is getting what she needs from the cc feed. I *think* I have heard of people giving their buns ribena to encourage them to drink in the short term but let someone else confirm that before you do it as I could be wrong.

Can't help you really but didn't want to read and run

Good luck :wave:

:wave:

It sounds like you're doing really well!

It's very difficult to predict which rabbit (even if they carry e.cuniculi) will get symptoms and which won't. I always try and keep their immune systems working well and give the Panacur as you are. I have never given, or been advised to give, Ivermectin for e.cuniculi. I would be interested in which websites recommend this.

What's your bun's name, by the way

Hope bun continues to improve.

Feed veg rinsed but not dried to increase fluid intake.

Don't forget the bleach cleaning on days 21 and 28 of the panacur course.

Dustyrabbit said:

Hope bun continues to improve.

Feed veg rinsed but not dried to increase fluid intake.

Don't forget the bleach cleaning on days 21 and 28 of the panacur course.

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Sorry for the delay in replying to these messages. Thank you so much for your help - it's much appreciated.

The bunny's name is Peanut - she's very sweet and very loving and so we owe it to her to do everything we can. The hardest thing is actually dealing with emotions and being positive - I'm quite a negative person and worry a lot. It's good to know that people have got these bunnies through this!

She has improved in that she's eating a lot more and yesterday she even took a couple of sips from the bottle when I held it up to her, though she still hates drinking. She's been rolling a lot today - more than ever before - but I wonder if that's because she's trying harder to right herself and overcompensating. If she'd start drinking more, I'd feel much better about her fluids! I've cut the Critical Care right down and I think that's why her appetite has picked up. Hoping she gets enough fluids from her veg but also feeding her pineapple juice (which she will drink) for my own peace of mind.

She's back at the vet's tomorrow - there's nothing else I should pick up, is there?

The main place I saw ivermectin mentioned is here.

I've forgotten what else was said so I'll respond to that after re-reading your posts.

Thank you again!

one of the family said:

Main thing - don't give up, she may lapse and appear worse again before she finally recovers.

The spores can live outside the body for up to 28 days. A one part bleach / nine parts water left on for thirty seconds before rinsing off thoroughly in water will kill the spores.

I had a rabbit with severe head tilt (EC confirmed through titre / symptoms / response to treatment) and she went on to have another good three years of life, she actually died 2 weeks ago from a clot after having a totally unrelated issue with a tumour in her paw. Both Buttercup and her partner Squirrel were treated with panacur once every 8 months or so and I would bleach clean everything every 28 days as well as the basic washing and changing of trays / bedding etc on a two daily basis. We never saw a re-occurrence fortunately although I understand this is possible.

Your bun may just not feel thirsty as she is getting what she needs from the cc feed. I *think* I have heard of people giving their buns ribena to encourage them to drink in the short term but let someone else confirm that before you do it as I could be wrong.

Can't help you really but didn't want to read and run

Good luck :wave:

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Thank you so much for your comforting words and advice. I'm so sorry to hear about your bunny - I hope you're doing OK. At least once they've gone, you know you've done all you can and can just mourn.

Do you mean you change trays and bedding twice a day or every 2 days? How long a course did your buns go on every 8 months?

I think that lapsing may be coming...she's rolling everywhere and getting stressed. Worrying about those little bunny eyes...

She still rolls unless she's propped up, although if she's propped up she eats more than the other rabbit and even drank a little bit from the bottle yesterday. She chunters and licks her feet and the floor too so I don't think she's unhappy. I wouldn't like her to have to be propped up for the rest of her life though and at night, in the cage, she rolls all over the place. I'm really worried about her eye and would appreciate any comfort from people who've been through this to help keep my spirits up. We're both exhausted!

Hi there :wave: My bunny has recentley recovered from E cuniculi, It sounds like your already doing a brilliant job with Peanut. My bunny Blackjack had a dental two weeks ago and didn't show any clinal signs of E cuniculi apart from wieght loss and not eating his pellets untill he came around from the anesthetic. When I went to collect him from the vets I couldn't belive it I burst out crying when I saw him. He couldn't stand and kept rolling onto his back with his feet in the air, both eyes were constantly scanning left to right and he had a severe head tilt. That weekend I spent 24/7 up with him syringe feeding, offering him water in a bowl and offering all his fav veg and just cuddling him in a blanket as it seemed to comfort him and help his balance. I found he would brighten up but then take a turn for the worse, at one point he curled into a ball, he was so rigid I couldn't straighten him up. By this point I couldn't bear to look at him it was so upsetting. I rushed him to the emergency vets thinking he would have to be PTS, but the vet was lovely and gave him a anti sickness injection and said to give him 48 hours to see if there was any improvment. The next 24 hours he started to improve and he even started eating by himself and could even manage to hop a few steps Now nearly three weeks later you would never know he ever had anything wrong with him, hes currently binkying around as I type this! Hes still taking his lapizole and antibiotics and being spoiled rotten :lol: Luckily theres seems to be no permenant damage. The last couple of weeks have been exhausting but to see him now makes it all worth while. Hang in there and keep your spirits up she will eventually get better it just all takes time good luck! :wave:

Hi, I helped my bunny Malteser recover last year.
It was weeknor so when I could stop syringing food and water into him. I kept hay all around him, since then he has been a great hay eater!
Water took him longer than food in terms of self service but he was keen for every syringe, food or otherwise, which was a big help!
I recently did a thread about getting from paralysis to recovery which you could look up and I hope you find it helpful

We did need a course of ivomectin, with being run down Malteser lost fur and after a skin taping a mite was found. It was only for mites nothing else.

I do a 9 day course of lapizole every 6 months to Malteser and am thinking of moving to annual courses for my other bunnies

Good luck. Pm me if you need some help. I get email updates instantly but cannot always look through the forum

Vibes for peanut xx

Thank you both for this - it's so good to hear from others! Amazing how emotional this process can be. It's been really comforting reading your words and I'll definitely look up that advice - the more the better. So tired now so she and I (and my husband!) are going to try and sleep - ill reply to anything I've missed tomorrow but THANK YOU for your replies . They are very much appreciated.

Arghh!

bethanhindson said:

Thank you both for this - it's so good to hear from others! Amazing how emotional this process can be. It's been really comforting reading your words and I'll definitely look up that advice - the more the better. So tired now so she and I (and my husband!) are going to try and sleep - ill reply to anything I've missed tomorrow but THANK YOU for your replies . They are very much appreciated.

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She started walking on her own again today - her first few steps for a while. She's been licking us and chattering all the time and eating all that is put in front of her. Then we took her to the vet for some more enrofloxacin and the vet said it was a welfare concern and she had to be put to sleep there and then and she's never known a rabbit recover from this. I feel so sick.

If there are not other symptoms or clinical causes for concern, PTS for a recovering case of EC seems a complete over-reaction. It can take several weeks for a bun to get back to normal (or as close to normal) from EC.

When Brownie was ill with headtilt/EC we found that the car journey to the vets always made her appear much worse than she was at home, but we had an excellent & very understanding vet who believed us & was prepared to help us fight the illness. If you're concerned about your vet's ability or willingness to treat this, perhaps add your location or start a new thread asking for vet recommendations near your area.

You seem to have the main bases covered with regard to meds - anti-inflammatory, antibiotic (in case of secondary infections & in case it is an inner/middle ear infection rather than EC) and the fenbendazole.
The only additional things I would suggest are adding a pro-biotic to her water (Avipro or Bio-Lapis) as this will help her digestive system cope with the impact of the antibiotics (our buns also find Avipro makes water extremely tasty!). If she has a major balance problem, the gut stimulant drug metacloprimide or a similar human drug called Stemetil can be beneficial - both act on the balance centre of the brain & can help reduce dizziness/vertigo & nausea.

bethanhindson said:

She started walking on her own again today - her first few steps for a while. She's been licking us and chattering all the time and eating all that is put in front of her. Then we took her to the vet for some more enrofloxacin and the vet said it was a welfare concern and she had to be put to sleep there and then and she's never known a rabbit recover from this. I feel so sick.

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Has she gone to the bridge or did you bring her home? Xx

Neleh said:

Has she gone to the bridge or did you bring her home? Xx

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No, we brought her home. I had to really fight with the vet and the vet refused to give us any more than 5 days enrofloxacin but if we put her to sleep now, after she showed the most stability yet, I'd find it hard to forgive myself. It's just terrifying fighting with a vet - you question you're doing the right thing! She is still rolling a lot...but she is better than she was. Thank you for the reassurance and advice Katy - it's good to not feel like I've done something terrible for her.

I mean Kate - sorry about that, can't see previous posts on my phone.

Phew! I'm so glad you fought it. No wonder she nevr saw a bun recover if she keeps pts!

Can you see a new vet. You need a good savvy vet asap by the sound of it!

You did the right thing, don't you worry about that! Xx

Neleh said:

Phew! I'm so glad you fought it. No wonder she nevr saw a bun recover if she keeps pts!

Can you see a new vet. You need a good savvy vet asap by the sound of it!

You did the right thing, don't you worry about that! Xx

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I know, I'm so angry. Who gets the right to tell owners they must put an animal to sleep? If they are informed, fine, but I don't think she is. I'm so glad too...seeing as Peanut just walked around the room herself and then lay down/got back up herself! Whoo! She's lost a bit of weight (100g from 1.6kg) - no idea how since she's eating all day long but hopefully it's all onwards and upwards from here. I'm so proud of her for walking around the room - my little bun-bun.

Horay! I'm so pleased! Show her Malteser, he has been revovered 16 months now!

Hope you can show the vet they can recover!

Hello. Hope Peanut is continuing to improve. Love your dog. Wish ours got on like that but our collie is just a bit too intensely interested in them...:wave:

I hope Peanut carries on getting stronger! Certainly sounds like you had a fight on with the vet. Some family members think I'm silly listening to a forum rather than a vet but it just proves that lovers of their pet know best.

Marley is currently on panacur for 28 days and metacam for 9 due to weight loss, loss of litter tray training, excessive drinking and overall seeming different. The vet could tell something wasnt right but basically said I might be worrying too much. Would preventation be better than the cure? But then I worry if he actually doesn't need it then maybe I'm doing him damage giving it him. The vet hasnt mentioned bleaching though. Do I need to do this also? He's binkied today twice for the first time in a while although hes not sprawling out when resting (as Peanut is doing a lovely demonstration of above!) and I suppose thats the painkiller but he didn't give any baytril for secondary infections :/ Marley still had a wet nose after a 6 day course of it before this.