Dental Work - Options ?

Hi,

Pasha, our 7 year old ND has been having a history of dental issues.

He went off his food back in July / August 2012, and we had dental work to burr spurs on his molars that were catching his cheek.

Since then he had his teeth done again in November - and now he isn't eating again.

We are worried about putting hiim through this dental work so frequently (seems to be needed every 3 months) - not to mention the cost, as the insurers will no longer cover the dental work.

Are there any other options for a more permanent or at least longer lasting treatment ? I've read about having problematic teeth removed, but have no idea on whether that is an appropriate measure.

We are syringe feeding him mushed pellets at present, so he is getting a reasonable amount of food and plenty of water - he is not grazing his hay or eating dried pellets now at all, although he does still eat some dried plantain / clover mix which is softer. His guts are still mobile, although less poop than usual.

We will be booking him in for treatment this week, but we are just researching options as well.

Have you discussed the matter with your vet?

tasherd said:

Have you discussed the matter with your vet?

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Spoke to the nurse on the phone, but trying to go in to see the vet tomorrow with a bit of research done.

Their preference for the moment is to burr the teeth (if in fact that is what is wrong) - and they suggested that tooth removal is likely to be traumatic for Pasha - requiring quite a bit of work on and around the jaw.

Putting him under every 3 months is also going to be pretty hard on him, he has tended to take longer to recover after each anaesthetic - last time he wasn't right for about 3 weeks.

Mart said:

Spoke to the nurse on the phone, but trying to go in to see the vet tomorrow with a bit of research done.

Their preference for the moment is to burr the teeth (if in fact that is what is wrong) - and they suggested that tooth removal is likely to be traumatic for Pasha - requiring quite a bit of work on and around the jaw.

Putting him under every 3 months is also going to be pretty hard on him, he has tended to take longer to recover after each anaesthetic - last time he wasn't right for about 3 weeks.

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Hi there,

I am also going through this exact same issue however my rabbit is needing it done every two weeks I don't care about the cost, I just don't want him to suffer through such trauma twice a month, it seems very unfair.

Other than when his teeth begin to hurt, he is a very happy bunny. If you discover any research that finds anything more permanent, please send it my way!

Good luck to you and your bun

Options are pretty limited for molars I'm afraid, it isn't really possible to extract them unless they are already very loose as it is very likely to shatter the jawbone due to their location and depth. Plus it's no use removing just the one tooth, you'd need to remove the opposite tooth as well otherwise it will just continue to grow and that one will require dentals, so it defeats the object.

There is a new technique currently being developed which Frances harcourt-brown is trialling, which involves injecting something into the tooth to stop it from continuing to grow. I can't remember the exact details, and I remember that for some reason it only works on one set of teeth, I can't remember if its the top or bottom set. If you search around on here you might find some information on it, I've read it here somewhere.

When your vet does the dental, do they burr the teeth right down to just above the gum, or do they just take off the spurs? If they normally just take off the spurs, sometimes a couple of dentals which take the teeth right down to a lower level give them the opportunity to regrow in a better shape so they don't cause as many future problems, plus taking the teeth down further also means that it takes longer for them to overgrow again.

Some vets will also do a conscious dental to take off spurs. This is very controversial - search for conscious dentals on here and you should find plenty of threads about it! Personally I am not in favour unless absolute last resort, as I think it's too risky to go rummaging about in bunny's mouths with sharp tools which could sever major blood vessels, and it only deals with sharp points and cannot properly reshape the teeth...but nevertheless it may be an option that your vet suggests so worth having read up about it and see what you think.

If one of the problems for you is recovery time after anaesthetic, another thing worth discussing might be to use a different anaesthetic protocol and see if that helps. They probably use something fairly standard at the practice but they might be open to asking around other bunny savvy vets to see what alternative anaesthetic protocols might be better for him.

Hope your little one is ok x x

Santa said:

There is a new technique currently being developed which Frances harcourt-brown is trialling, which involves injecting something into the tooth to stop it from continuing to grow. I can't remember the exact details, and I remember that for some reason it only works on one set of teeth, I can't remember if its the top or bottom set. If you search around on here you might find some information on it, I've read it here somewhere.

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There's some info on the technique you mention in this thread. It's a procedure to remove the pulp from inside the problem teeth to stop them growing, but is only suitable for the lower jaw.

As Santa already explained, tooth removal is very problematic if the teeth aren't already loose but I would second her advice to see if the vet can burr the teeth right down as this helped Bubbles for some time.

What sort of problems is Pasha having after the dentals? I'm just wondering if it could also be that the roots are causing him some issues maybe, instead of/as well as taking longer to bounce back from the GA itself.

Best of luck, I know first-hand what a worry dental problems can be. xx

Santa said:

Options are pretty limited for molars I'm afraid, it isn't really possible to extract them unless they are already very loose as it is very likely to shatter the jawbone due to their location and depth. Plus it's no use removing just the one tooth, you'd need to remove the opposite tooth as well otherwise it will just continue to grow and that one will require dentals, so it defeats the object.

There is a new technique currently being developed which Frances harcourt-brown is trialling, which involves injecting something into the tooth to stop it from continuing to grow. I can't remember the exact details, and I remember that for some reason it only works on one set of teeth, I can't remember if its the top or bottom set. If you search around on here you might find some information on it, I've read it here somewhere.

When your vet does the dental, do they burr the teeth right down to just above the gum, or do they just take off the spurs? If they normally just take off the spurs, sometimes a couple of dentals which take the teeth right down to a lower level give them the opportunity to regrow in a better shape so they don't cause as many future problems, plus taking the teeth down further also means that it takes longer for them to overgrow again.

Some vets will also do a conscious dental to take off spurs. This is very controversial - search for conscious dentals on here and you should find plenty of threads about it! Personally I am not in favour unless absolute last resort, as I think it's too risky to go rummaging about in bunny's mouths with sharp tools which could sever major blood vessels, and it only deals with sharp points and cannot properly reshape the teeth...but nevertheless it may be an option that your vet suggests so worth having read up about it and see what you think.
If one of the problems for you is recovery time after anaesthetic, another thing worth discussing might be to use a different anaesthetic protocol and see if that helps. They probably use something fairly standard at the practice but they might be open to asking around other bunny savvy vets to see what alternative anaesthetic protocols might be better for him.

Hope your little one is ok x x

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I remember reading about this new procedure and there is someone on here whos bunny has had it done (can't remember who). Probably about a year ago.

My dental bunny used to have conscious dentals every 4-5 weeks and coped well and I had a very competent vet. It would also depend on the buns personality as mine was very laid back. When the vet left we had to go to GA dentals and they were every 5-7 weeks. It is very controversial but Homer had them for 4 years without issues. I would not trust all vets I might add and most vets will not do them due to the risks involved (I have never found another who would do them round my area)

My bunny also had conscious dentals, which avoids the anaesthetic. He was 10 years old at the time so treatment very risky. He was absolutely fine with it, and seemed positively relieved when the work was done and started eating straight away. I don't think I'd trust some vets to do that though, and I don't think many will even try. Let me know if you want the details of my vet.

Thanks for the info guys.

Will do a bit of reading into this.

Not sure about the conscious dental work - Pasha can be a handful. He's a full house rabbit, not used to being held and he struggles quite a bit when held (which we restrict to syringe feeding and nail clipping) - he is happy to be pampered on the floor though.

Our vets aren't totally bunny savvy (very few here in Northern Ireland are) - and our previous buns really did a lot to educate and train their staff. Having siad that, I do trust them - and some of their younger vets are more used to bunny problems and treatments, so I'll raise some of the suggestions here.

Thanks again I'll let you know how Pasha gets on.

As far as I know there is something that just makes bunny dozy in order to make a proper X ray, for example. I guess it could be good for a concious dental for a bunny that is hard to handle.

Frances Harcourt Brown uses the technique where the pulp is removed from the tooth to kill it. It stops the teeth growing and they just sit there as a dead tooth until at some point they will fall eventually out. We explored this with her with Scarlet who is a dental rabbit. Frances has also removed several of Scarlet's molars succesfully. Scarlet's teeth are not however healthy and where she has teeth that don't have another one to wear against they are not normal teeth and do not grow very fast. Scarlet therefore has several unopposed teeth that don't cause a problem.

If you are within travelling distance of Frances in Harrogate I would highly recommend her. Scarlet was having dentals every 10 to 12 weeks until we saw her. She has now been dental free since June but is having one next week.

i had my rabbit at the vets today about his back teeth and was told removing the back teeth is a risky procedure (so probably not worth it) my rabbit has had to have his back teeth trimmed 3 times in 3/4 years,the last time he was only sedated (usually has anaesthetic,and he is always fine after 2/3 days

He's booked in for dental work tomorrow - we'll talk options with the vet inthe morning, but we'll most probbaly just go with burring teeth, either sedated or anaesthetised (we'll talk about that with them too).

Thanks for the advice - I'll look into the options on the teeth and Harcourt Brown's treatment too.

Thanks all

Martin

I hope all goes well for Pasha tomorrow, Mart. Let us know how he gets on. x

Update:

Pasha had his dental yesterday - they filed as much as they reasonably could, but advised against tooth removal due to stress on jaw etc.

He was reasonably perky late last night - although he hasn't started eating on his own again yet (other than a couple of dried Plantain leaves - which are his go-to-treats - and are a bit softer than hay).

We're syringe feeding him mushed pellets to keep his guts mobile - about 5-6 times daily.

He's sulking now today, and is obviously tired - but pooping / peeing ok.

We'll need to research other options for the teeth, although his revovery post-op this time appears to be better than last time, we don't think we can bank on that every time, especially as he gets older.

i would really reccomend having them removed,mine is soo much happier,before having them removed it was only 2 weeks out of the month they were a good size and he was able to eat properly and he would also get toys stuck to his teeth.after the operation you will most likely have to do the same as you are now after the trimming (syringe feed,encourage him to eat) but i will normaly only be for a few days then there will be no more stress with vet trips.

I'm glad he got through ok and hopefully he's up to eating for himself very soon.