Cannot work out what is causing this

I have posted in the past about my bunny who has intermittant episodes where we go to let him out of his cage in morning and he is uninterested in food or water and only wants to either stretch out or sit hunched up a bit. He is fine again within either a few hours or at its longest by next day.

I have seen 6 different vets, 2 thought it was behavioural and others gut related and I finally found a good small animal vet in town half hour away from us who said to bring him in immediately next time had an episode.

He had been perfectly normal at 11pm last night when i went out with his replacement heatpad, he had eaten everything in his bowl. He has unlimited hay available all the time. Overnight he had pooped an peed as normal and drunk his water and licked out his bowl!! But at 9am he didn't want to know us so we rang vets and went round to see new vet.

She had very good look at his teeth etc and spent forever listening to him with scope and examining him and she even spent 15 mins just watching him. She said she is certain it is gut related , he had pooped and peed in travel carrier and she said he was not in real pain but he was uncomfortable.

She said something he eats could be triggering this off - it may even be down to quantity of something which makes it harder to identify. I had already cut out all gassy veg and he was only having fresh herbs and celery in greens.

WE got him home and after about 10 mins he suddenly almost shook himself and started eating his hay and then his food as if nothing had been wrong. We laughingly said maybe we just need to take him for along car ride next time:roll:

I know I have asked this before I think but if I list his foods are there any suspects

20 ss pellets
dried dandelion/blackcurrent and apple leaves ( handful of both)
4 fenugeek crunchies

fresh herbs ( basil/coriander/parsley)
1 inch of celery


AFter his last attack a month ago I cut out all green veg apart from above so I know its not the other green veg although this attack was short compared to other he has had.

Huge thanks

4 fenugreek crunchies seems like a lot for 1 day.

A few questions..
What hay do you use?
Is it good quality?
Does he have a friend?
What's his setup like and how active is he?

Some buns are just prone to gas/stasis and it may be that he would benefit from a hay only diet.

I'd cut out the Crunchies and the Celery.

Do the episodes occur within a relatively short time AFTER feeding pellets ? I have a few Rabbits, all Rexes, who cannot cpe with a pelleted feed at all.

As long as he is a good hay eater I'd half the amount of pellets you feed, or maybe feed them in 2 portions 12 hours apart.

I only give my bunnys 6/7 SS pellets morning and night , 1 fenugreek crunchie morning and night, hay morning hay afternoon and hay night, today they all had a small floret of broccoli this afternoon sometimes I give them a Fibafirst stick as a treat too :wave:

This is an incredibly long shot but have they considered epilepsy? It sounds like a petit mal seizure also known as an absence siezure. They quite common in epileptic children where the child will just sit and stare into space. They don't usually last very long however in dogs those kind of epileptic seizures present differently to in people so maybe rabbits are different still.

Thanks everyone really appreciate you thoughts.

Answers to questions as follows

He has 4 different types of hay from hay experts and they are all expensive!!
Timothy from alfafa king
Hay and dried dandelion or nettle ( even more expensive)
Green oat hay
Meadow hay ( pastures new)

He has a huge enclosure to run around in all day with tunnels etc and access to the house on and off all day.

He had a partner for 4 years but she died nearly a year ago, he had these episodes when he was with her and I have to say he is a much happier and better condition bun without her as she ate all the food and bullied him.

Up to age of 5 he was fed only muesli mix and no hay or greens at all ever but don't know if he had these episodes then or not as owners only say buns for long enough to throw food at them once a day if lucky so they would not have known if he was ill or not.

He had these episodes on muesli mix as it was about 6 months after I got him and joined here that I found out they needed better food ie science selective pellets.

He gets 10 pellets am and then another 10 at teatime. His dried dandelion and blackcurrent apple leaves are again split into twice a day.

I will cut his f crunchie down to one a day ( he had these episodes before he was given the crunchies) and cut out the celery and just give him two herbs and I will keep a exact record of his food.

Interesting re epilepsy type something. He always gets these attacks following a days of wet grey weather??? Not always of course but we have never been to the vets in the dry!!

I have had rabbits go in to stassis rolling an emotional upset eg, a visit from the fox, could something be upsetting him in this way?

Wow spoilt in the hay department! :lol:

I'm wondering if a friend that gets along with him will help. My bun lost his partner and suffered terribly with stasis episodes...most of the time he pulled himself out of it but occasionally it was a vet trip and drugs to get him going again. As soon as I got him another partner he stopped with these episodes. I'm thinking if you get a calm bunny friend for him it may motivate him to eat even when he feels uncomfortable and so will avoid any serious issues.

Has he had a proper dental check? Xrays or anything? It could be that his guts don't work properly because of the years of neglect and awful diet, perhaps his guts have been damaged

It seemed odd that he ate when the heat pad was around. I had a guinea pig with a liver issue that needed to come and live in the house so he was warm? I'm notvsaying it could be his liver but warmth could be easing digestion?

bunkin said:

Thanks everyone really appreciate you thoughts.

Interesting re epilepsy type something. He always gets these attacks following a days of wet grey weather??? Not always of course but we have never been to the vets in the dry!!

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Have a look on here http://epilepsyfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/weird-epilepsy-triggers it suggests changes in barometric pressure can be a trigger and says

Weather differences such as sudden changes in temperature, dark skies, thunder, or bright, hot sunlight and humidity may be a definite trigger for some

You get a few hits if you google epilepsy and barometric pressure

A previous bun of mine suffered from epilepsy, but it was not anything like you describe. It was awful to be honest and I was always so scared that he would pass away during an attack. Attacks only lasted a couple of minutes but seemed to go on forever, he had no control over his bowel and bladder, and would convulse, alternating between being floppy and rigid, twisting and writhing, his eyes were either closed or unfocused, and he made very strange movements with his mouth, sometimes trying to catch hold of my clothing as though for reassurance.

RogerRabbit999 said:

A previous bun of mine suffered from epilepsy, but it was not anything like you describe. It was awful to be honest and I was always so scared that he would pass away during an attack. Attacks only lasted a couple of minutes but seemed to go on forever, he had no control over his bowel and bladder, and would convulse, alternating between being floppy and rigid, twisting and writhing, his eyes were either closed or unfocused, and he made very strange movements with his mouth, sometimes trying to catch hold of my clothing as though for reassurance.

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That would be gran mal seizures rather than petit mal seizures, they're very different.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

I am sure it is tummy related rather than mental, it is just tryng to find out what is triggering the tummy trouble. As has been said almost anything food or emotion can trigger it

I appreciate the post re a partner bun but he was having these episodes when he had a partner and they have not become more frequent since she died a year ago. He is over 7 yrs old now and other than these episodes he is fine and looks very healthy with glorious coat and vets say he looks like a young bun.
Much as I feel guilty about him being on his own for all sorts of reasons I cannot get another bun ( long story!) and just want to do my best for him because believe me compared to his life before I got him he has it good now!!!!

Really appreciate your replies,

bunkin said:

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

I am sure it is tummy related rather than mental, it is just tryng to find out what is triggering the tummy trouble. As has been said almost anything food or emotion can trigger it

I appreciate the post re a partner bun but he was having these episodes when he had a partner and they have not become more frequent since she died a year ago. He is over 7 yrs old now and other than these episodes he is fine and looks very healthy with glorious coat and vets say he looks like a young bun.
Much as I feel guilty about him being on his own for all sorts of reasons I cannot get another bun ( long story!) and just want to do my best for him because believe me compared to his life before I got him he has it good now!!!!

Really appreciate your replies,

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That is fair enough Could you possibly bring him indoors? I'm wondering if it may help..you can see him constantly and possibly you will notice something that could be triggering it. Obviously this would be in the spring/summer and only if it's practical for you. Also it will eliminate him getting lonely if it is not possible for you to get a friend for him..he may be fine, obviously you know him more than anybody here

We started letting him into house after his last episode the week before xmas - he can come through french doors into the house from his enclosed yard and he does a few times a day but it does seem as if he is actually happier outside as he will come in and have a mooch around but he keeps going back to check the doors are open so he can go back out again and he will only spend about 5 mins inside and he goes back out again.

He will spend about 5-10 mins with us either inside or outside but then he goes off and ignores us:roll:
I think bringing him in properly would cause him alot of stress which might be counter productive???

On the subject of any vet tests again its a balancing act - he has got to over 7 yrs of age and apart from these episodes has no other health problems at all. The vet is reluctant to do any tests that need sedation or are invasive if not absolutely necessary. So far he has always recovered within 24 hrs from these episodes. If he did not get better within the 24 hrs then the vet would do tests needing sedation or if these episodes become much more frequent.

IN the past he has had two or three episodes within a two or three months and we are just starting to think about tests when he can then go 4 months okay???

He's def a "funny bunny" but oh so lovable.

I can't offer anything helpful...but hoping bun gets well soon x

yes, I would also be reluctant to put a bun of that age under sedation especially if it was for something that didn't affect him so much. I would presume he is having bouts of gas if he is recovering from it within 24 hours. Have you tried infacol? I've heard that is quite good for gassy bunnies but have never tried it myself. He sounds very loved and obviously is a happy bunny despite these bouts of "iffyness". Like I sad before perhaps it is just something he will have to live with and is to do with having no hay and being on crappy muesli.

Could you make a diary of when it happens and the food he has eaten during the day and what the weather is like. I have heard bunnies going into stasis because of bad weather before. Then you will be able to make sure it is completely random and nothing is triggering it...at least from a humans point of view!

Has he been treated for EC or has he had the EC antibody test (blood test) It does sound to me like a disruption in brain activity. However I googled petite mal in rabbit as I was interested and found this http://www.ehow.com/list_6672621_causes-rabbit-seizures_.html

It shows a couple more options to consider. I found the low blood sugar particularly interesting to read as only today I was reading about spikes in blood sugar from human diet. I don't know what the answer is but food for thought maybe.

Been thinking about this some more. The issues always occur in the morning after he has been enclosed.

Maybe has some sort of rheumatic/arthritic condition that means he gets sore in the mornings. This would be particularly worth looking into as you mention the rain, damp conditions. These are known to elevate rheumatoid symptoms. Lack of mobility also aggravates the disease.

Vegan_Bunny said:

yes, I would also be reluctant to put a bun of that age under sedation especially if it was for something that didn't affect him so much. I would presume he is having bouts of gas if he is recovering from it within 24 hours. Have you tried infacol? I've heard that is quite good for gassy bunnies but have never tried it myself. He sounds very loved and obviously is a happy bunny despite these bouts of "iffyness". Like I sad before perhaps it is just something he will have to live with and is to do with having no hay and being on crappy muesli.

Could you make a diary of when it happens and the food he has eaten during the day and what the weather is like. I have heard bunnies going into stasis because of bad weather before. Then you will be able to make sure it is completely random and nothing is triggering it...at least from a humans point of view!

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I will get some infacol and try it next time to see if it helps. Do you know how much to give him??? It is almost impossible to syringe feed him little monster but I have found smearing around his mouth makes him lick it off

I am keeping a detailed dairy of food each day with weather and how much interaction he has with us to see if there is something that stands out before an attack. I have a bad habit of letting this lapse when he has been fine for a month or so but this time I will be a good girl and do it properly every ay before bed! I am also not going to give in to his begging for treats so he eats more hay.

What is strange is that before I knew about not letting them have alot of pellets I followed the bag instructions and gave him about 5 times the amount he now has and he did not have any more episodes then than he does now?????