6 vets puzzled , your thoughts please.

My neutered male bunny is 7 yrs old. I have had him for two half years and ever since I got him he has had episodes sometimes up to 2-3 months apart or weeks apart where when I go to let him out of his cage in the morning and invariably it is on a day where I am late letting him out he will be half asleep laid out with legs to one side and totally uninterested in me or any food. Its almost as if he is half hibernating and we have also worked out that it follows or is during extended days of very wet weather.

If prodded and poked and moved he will perk up but still refuse to eat or drink and after time will revert back to half asleep mode.

At this point I rush off to vets where he perks up no end and after thorough going over they can find nothing wrong with him.

It is impossible to syringe feed him anything as he goes beserk if anyone tries - even 2 vets could not succeed the best we can do is smear recovery food arround his mouth and on his feet.

Anything from 4 to 16 hrs later he suddenly wakes up and starts bounding around more like his usual self but still won't eat but overnight he will eat a bit and drink a bit and use his litter tray but obviously not normal quantities. By lunchtime the next day he is totally fine, eating everything and his normal self.

He follows this pattern every single time just the time scale varies.

His diet is always same - 20 pellets twice a day, fresh herbs and lots of different hays.

The only things which are common to each episode is it seems to happen after days of wet weather where he is not running around as usual - he is either in his cage ( open access) or sitting under his outdoor cover to keep dry and seems to get more and more sleepy.

The first vet we saw wondered if it was a mental trigger and 5 vets later the one I saw yesterday straight away thought it was a neuro/mental problem.

His previous owners would not have known if he did this becaue they were lucky to feed him and his then partner once a day and they were completely ignored 99% of the time but assume he has always done this.

He does not seem to suffer any after effects of not eating or drinking for up to 12 hrs or more or peeing pooping for same time!

All the vets has advised to smear the recovery food and fibreplex on him to see if he will clean himself and if he still has not drunk anything by next morning to take him back for fluids.

Sorry its such a long post but had to tell the whole story!!!

So, when he goes to the vets, do they give any treatment? eg. pain relief or gut motility drugs?

I can't really offer much advice, but just speak from my own experiences with my bunnies. I have had frequent episodes of not eating with two of my bunnies, and both have turned out to be dental-related and diet-related.

Bunny had an awful year last year and the year before, and would frequently get episodes of tummy pressing and not eating. We'd be at the vet so much, and he would recover after pain relief and gut meds. In the end (the year before last) I cut out all fresh greens, and he just had hay, a few pellets and occasional dried forage (and fresh bramble in the summer). This helped him immensely, so I think many of his problems might have been gas from the veg - he just wasn't tolerating it. Last year, he had an episode after a long period of being fine. It turned out that time that he had some dental problems, and after a skull x-ray we found out that he also had tooth-root issues (his roots were impacted and probably causing him pain). Now he has fairly regular dentals ( although touch-wood he has now gone 3 months without one, after having one once a month for several months), and is also on daily pain relief for his tooth-roots. For him, the pain relief really helps.

Toby has had an awful few months. He would stop eating once or twice a week for a month or so. Many vet trips and a referral later, his problems too were decided to be dental-related. With him, his dental spurs seem to be very difficult to see whilst he is conscious, and the referral vet was very surprised at how bad they were once they put him under. Now he has dentals, and touch wood has been ok for over a month now.

I really feel for you, because all the time of not knowing what the problem is, is very stressful I know. Have they done any tests/x-rays on him?

Do the vets listen to his gut with a stethoscope? Do they check for blockages as well? How does the gut sound, is it moving normally, or slowly, or stopped?

Has he had ultrasounds and/or xrays done of the gut? Has he had blood tests?

He has had good look at his teeth and he had very good teeth, plus once he is with it again he eats everything including fenugeek crunchies which are very very hard with no problems. All the vets say that if it was dental he would not refuse to eat one day then munch the hardest things the next day with no problems.

He always gets a good exam with long time spent listening to his tummy with stethascope plus physical exam and temp etc.

I would more side with a food related issue, he never ever got any green food with his previous owners so its entirley possible that this is the problem although he can go months with no problem???

Thinking about it he had been having small amount of kale every day for months and had been fine but then I could not get it and he was just having fresh herbs but then few days before his first episode two weeks ago I had got some kale again. I will keep him off all greens except fresh herbs and give him same amount of same herbs every day.

One vet suggested a food diary and I did start doing one but as he was okay for so long I lapsed:roll: as you do but will start one again.

As he is never off his food for longer than 24 hrs and often much shorter plus it can be months between episodes and given his age I am reluctant as are the vets to give him intrusive tests including anaethesia. Its not a money issue I would pay anything for him.

bunkin said:

He has had good look at his teeth and he had very good teeth, plus once he is with it again he eats everything including fenugeek crunchies which are very very hard with no problems. All the vets say that if it was dental he would not refuse to eat one day then munch the hardest things the next day with no problems.

He always gets a good exam with long time spent listening to his tummy with stethascope plus physical exam and temp etc.

I would more side with a food related issue, he never ever got any green food with his previous owners so its entirley possible that this is the problem although he can go months with no problem???

Thinking about it he had been having small amount of kale every day for months and had been fine but then I could not get it and he was just having fresh herbs but then few days before his first episode two weeks ago I had got some kale again. I will keep him off all greens except fresh herbs and give him same amount of same herbs every day.

One vet suggested a food diary and I did start doing one but as he was okay for so long I lapsed:roll: as you do but will start one again.

As he is never off his food for longer than 24 hrs and often much shorter plus it can be months between episodes and given his age I am reluctant as are the vets to give him intrusive tests including anaethesia. Its not a money issue I would pay anything for him.

Click to expand...

Ultrasounds and xrays can be done under sedation, so no anesthesia is required.

Does he eat a pile of hay the size of himself every day? What is his exact diet daily?

Diet as follows

20 ss pellets morning and night
unlimited hay - timothy, meadow, hay with herbs and green oat hay.
Dried dandelion and flowers ( pinch of each twice a day)
Was having 2inch square piece of kale daily
parsley coriander basil ( one handful a day mixed)
3-4 fenugeek crunchies

I cannot be sure how much hay he eats a day but he usually empties his hay ball in hutch plus he eats out of a hay box in the daytime out in his enclosure. Don't think it will be his body size though.

I have also remember one thing that I am not sure if he has had before each episode but certainly this time the day before he had it after he had eaten I think the kale he had a very very noisy tum for a few seconds. Not sure if this happens alot as I am not there when he eats the greens but is something I will moniter from now on.

I have heard of a vet who owns lots of g pigs and is very up on g pigs and rabbits in a town 20 miles away so I will get an appt with her in new year for her opinion and a look over bun as well.

I know they love them, but that sounds quite a lot of fenugreek crunchies, on top of the pellets. You might also find you need to cut the pellets down a bit - some bunnies' tums just really can't tolerate them. Obviously you'd want some increased hay eating as a result of cutting down though.

bunkin said:

Diet as follows

20 ss pellets morning and night
unlimited hay - timothy, meadow, hay with herbs and green oat hay.
Dried dandelion and flowers ( pinch of each twice a day)
Was having 2inch square piece of kale daily
parsley coriander basil ( one handful a day mixed)
3-4 fenugeek crunchies

I cannot be sure how much hay he eats a day but he usually empties his hay ball in hutch plus he eats out of a hay box in the daytime out in his enclosure. Don't think it will be his body size though.

I have also remember one thing that I am not sure if he has had before each episode but certainly this time the day before he had it after he had eaten I think the kale he had a very very noisy tum for a few seconds. Not sure if this happens alot as I am not there when he eats the greens but is something I will moniter from now on.

I have heard of a vet who owns lots of g pigs and is very up on g pigs and rabbits in a town 20 miles away so I will get an appt with her in new year for her opinion and a look over bun as well.

Click to expand...

Are your vets qualified in rabbit medicine or exotic medicine? It would be a good idea to find one that is, as normal vets aren't.

Noisy tummy could indicate gas, this can stop them eating.

I'd reduce the pellets a little, and cut out the crunchies, so that he eats more hay, as if he has a gut problem the more hay the better. You want him eating a minimum of a pile the size of himself daily.

When was the last time he had this?

He has access to a huge amount of hay all the time which I replace daily ( one spoilt rabbit!) but not sure he eats his own body size every day but he does eat quite alot.

I will reduce his fenugeek crunchies to one a day. Previously he did not have these as I did not know they existed and he still had the episodes so I know its not these in isolation that is causing it. He also used to eat alot more ss pellets until about a year ago when i read on here how many they should have so again he is having much less of these now but no change in his episodes.

The only new thing in his diet since I got him is the greenery and hay ( he never had hay before) but I very much doubt hay is the problem!!

I cannot find any exotic vet in cumbria - I have looked on the rcvs website and none come up for this county???

If it's happening after wet weather I would consider arthritis. Does he get Metacam when he's treated for these episodes? If he's feeling better after the Metacam it could be pain related.

I don't know if this will be of any use to you? They seem to have a good reputation from the reptile forums. Their exotic specialist is Vicki Temple.

http://www.millcroftvets.co.uk/?Exotic

He has never been given metacam while he is in an episode as once at the vets he looks like a normal rabbit:roll: with absolutely no indications of any pain but its a thought to ask if I can try it.

Thanks for the vet link - all those places are a long way from me as I live in south cumbria and they are all in the north of county and I may be wrong but they seem to be more snakes and parrots but I will ring them and ask if they specialise in rabbits as well.

I do think you need to try another vet. Rabbits hide their pain well so a vet can't necessarily tell when they are in pain. It seems odd to me for a vet to just send them home again saying it is all psychological.

I agree, the impression I get is that as it could be caused by so many things and trying to find out would involve alot of tests so they are more concerned with treating the symptoms if they persist as in bring him back for hydration if he hasn't drunk iby tomorrow etc etc. I would also imagine that they are used to people not being willing to spend alot of money on a rabbit so they are going for the cheapest option.

They are def not specialist vets or should i say they specialise in horses!

I am def going to ask the g pig vet for her opinion in the new year.

SarahP said:

I do think you need to try another vet. Rabbits hide their pain well so a vet can't necessarily tell when they are in pain. It seems odd to me for a vet to just send them home again saying it is all psychological.

Click to expand...

I agree with this - as prey animals, rabbits hide their pain to prevent them being seen as an easy target. Often we do not know they are in pain at all - think about after a neuter - do you think they are pain-free the next day after having their ball sacks opened, the balls removed, and then sewn up again, and then having them swell up, all in a very sensitive area? They must be very sore for a good few days at the least yet rarely do males show signs of pain the next day after a neuter.

When they are in intense pain, often the only signs are stopping eating or subtle changes in behavior - changes which would not be necessarily apparent at the vets. So to not give him pain relief when he is suffering from a condition (gut slowdown/stasis) which is usually pain-related, because he doesn't seem to obviously be in pain... well it seems a bit odd at the least.

Bunkin...


Exactly the same happened to Floppy. a fortnight ago.. Bizarre really as it was over as quickly as it started and I was given fibreplex to give him. Within about 10 hours he was brand new.

The same has happened again today??.?

It wasnt raining the first time but was extremely cold , this time its been raining for days....
I put a snugglesafe under a pile of hay and he has moved to lie on it. I also replaced all the hay in the hutch. He isnt moving around much but after a few hours he is much warmer and his wee ears have now heated up.

I dont give him lots of greens as his wifey cant tolerate greens and has the runs...

I am intrigued to find out whats happening too as He went to vets and seemed to ome alive, preumably through nerves, once back in the box and bak in the hutch he was 'floppy'

Good luck

Fee xxx

Hi Fee nice to know I am not the only one with a "odd" bunny!

If you seem to find an answer please post or pm me and I will do vice versa as its so perplexing not knowing what it is.

No problem ... Will do..

Good luck.......It is extremely concerning..

Fee xx

What breed of bunny is he?

breed of bunny = a grey one!! He is my profile photo if you have a look. Maybe you can tell me as I haven't a clue but he is very cute and a lovely silver grey colour with white tummy and tail.