Stress! Terminally ill bunny :(

Thought I would post about what's been going on as it might help a bit

Finding it really difficult caring for my ill bunny Honey, some times are easier than others and I love her to bits but sometimes I just think, argh!

Honey has snuffles developed from dental problems, which apart from pain relief my vet can't do anything about, the teeth are really bad.

She's been on baytril, with somewhat limited success, and is now on a course of doxycycline to see if that relieves the symptoms of her sneezing, coughing/general snuffling and to keep her comfortable for as long as she has quality of life. It's also hard to maintain her weight (due to her teeth problems she can't digest all her food properly) which has fluctuated a bit but which seems to have stablised a bit now.

She choked on a piece of grass last night, which was horrible, she was fine though and cleaning herself within a minute, so relieved about that.

The doxycycline seems to have worked quite well (she's had three doses so far, fourth later today) but she has been making that awful cough/choking noise snuffly bunnies seem to do a little today, but big improvement from yesterday

Also have echineacha ordered on its way to see if that helps her at all. Just all feels like a nightmare at the moment, no way of knowing how much longer I have left with her, though my instinct says it's not long My vet says as long as she is not losing a huge amount of weight and still interacting with me etc we can carry on.

Hard times for sure.

Sorry to hear your bunny is poorly. Cant the vet remove her teeth?

I'm from Aberdeen too :wave:

I am sorry to hear of Honey's problems

Have you been following this thread, which may be helpful to you. It's long, but worth the effort of reading I think

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?340086-Snuffle-bunny-thread

Alvins mummy said:

Sorry to hear your bunny is poorly. Cant the vet remove her teeth?

I'm from Aberdeen too :wave:

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Hello nice to see you're in Aberdeen too!

I assume they can't remove them, I haven't actually asked, I think it is a lot of her teeth and I'm sure they would have suggested removing them if they could. I have wondered if other vets might remove them though....I'm sure my vets are pretty good though

Jack's-Jane said:

I am sorry to hear of Honey's problems

Have you been following this thread, which may be helpful to you. It's long, but worth the effort of reading I think

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?340086-Snuffle-bunny-thread

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Thanks for your reply! I have yes, got a few ideas from there so it's been helpful, I think I need to go back and read through it all again though!

Honey is a very lucky bunny to have such a loving and caring owner.

Best of luck to both of you.:thumb:

Aw thank you! That's really lovely

:wave: Hi Honey monster. Not from Aberdeen but worked on Shetland for a while so I know the harbour!

I'm so sorry to hear about Honey.

I think the 2 main things you can do to both help Honey & make her more comfortable are, metacam both for pain relief (blocked sinuses are really painful & that can slow down a bunny's tummy so they eat less.) & it reduces swelling which helps the mucus to drain.
I'd give her several days on the metacam, then add bisolvon (doesn't help all buns), but it's great for thinning down Benjie's discharge. He can clear his nose in a couple of sneezes, instead of getting really distressed by the block.
Both are easy to give. Nearly all buns go crackers for their "metacam fix" & the pinch of bisolvon is easily hidden in favourite treats.

You are more than welcome to join us on the snuffle bunny thread. We have buns at all stages of the illness.

Are the teeth not removable? I've had a bunny before with no teeth and he coped great, just needed to soak to soften up his food and change his diet a bit, to incorporate easier to eat things, but to have no dental pain, trauma to inside of mouth was just a terrific relief to us both. I've used Bisolvon with really good results, and also steaming. Did find it easier for us to both sit under towel but Roger seemed to really enjoy it and would drift off to sleep being so warm and cuddled. I know this because he was a terrible snorer!!

Honey

Hi guys

Thanks for your suggestions. She is on metacam long term and I spoke to the vet on Friday and he is going to have a think about giving her mucolytic drugs (which I think would be bisolvon??) though he says he hasn't done this before so wanted to have a think and get back to me. He is a really nice vet and genuinely wants to do all he can to help (I monitor H's weight each week and give him the readings and she has been on two kinds of oral antibiotics too). He has also said that on one side of her mouth (the bad side) every single tooth is abnormal so he wouldn't know which one to remove to ease the sinus pressure, and that sadly it's beyond their capabilities to do much. Wish he could take them all out! But I have assumed that this just wouldn't be possible, though I have heard of toothless rabbits like you're saying and I would have no problem adjusting her diet. Just not sure how the removal would work in practice and it this would be just too traumatic a surgery or multiple surgeries to go through...

I will mention to the vet things that have been suggested on here though too, always great to hear from rabbit experts through experience!

Touch wood, but Honey has seemed better the last couple of days - still sneezing and the odd 'cough' or as I described it 'hacking' and still sounding snuffly but I do sense she's improved a bit. Just finshed a week of doxycycline so maybe it's taken a while to kick in. We can do one week one week off of the antibiotics the vet said...

Anyway sorry to ramble, thanks for your replies!

I so wish you were closer to me as my vet is a rabbit expert and only animal he works with. He is super experienced at surgery, dentals of rabbits and people travel from all over the country to see him, and he may well be able to help you more with the other things. If there is any way of you being able to get down here to see Simon, then you are more than welcome to stay with me, and I can take you there etc, or if there is any way of getting your bunny here I would take great care of her and work with Simon on your behalf. The offer is genuinely there if it is something you would like to consider and would be no problem at all. I just know Simon would be able to do so much for your bunny. His number is 01604 478888, if maybe you or your vet would like to discuss with him, as he may be able to help your vet over the phone if nothing else. He removes lots of teeth because sometimes that is the only way forward, and bunnies do cope really well. It must be such a relief for them to have all that pain and discomfort gone for ever.

poor girl. I can only really think of the little extras which might help in addition to the veterinary treatment, vicks vapour rub on a tissue just outside her cage, probiotics (I like avipro) while she's on the antibiotics, plenty of plantain as its a natural anti inflammatory, soaking her food which might make eating easier and help her gain weight, barley rings for weight gain and oat and alfalfa hays.

Has your vet xrayed her jaw to see the teeth roots?

The incertanth feeling is horrible you have to continue to be strong for her.

:wave: Thank you so much for your kind offer Roger - truly amazing! Going to your vets is certainly something I will consider, if there is any chance for H I will explore it She is a tough wee thing, very proud of her.

I will discuss this with my vets over the next day or so and see what he says...

akaemzybabe thank you for your advice...I have plantain but it is difficult getting her to eat it Her weight is actually doing ok just now, on the positive side...she gets oat, pellets and veg, won't eat hay despite it being alfalfa Not the healthiest I know but seems to be the only way i can maintain her weight...

I meant every word of it x maybe you and your vet could talk to Simon. Your vet may be able to send x-rays to him, and Simon may then be able to point him in the right direction so to speak, or come to some sort of action plan with him. He would then tell you honestly if it would be worth you coming to see him, and if he says yes, we will work it out. Hang on in there x

Thanks again Roger

I spoke to my vet today and he still seems to think that because it's Honey's molar teeth they are practically impossible to remove, and also very difficult to get x rays of. He also said that even if the teeth were removed that can also cause problems eg for the other side of the mouth and healing etc.

However, he is going to do some research and get back to me, he has specialist colleagues in Edinburgh he is going to contact and see if they can suggest anything and if a referral to them would be worthwhile. This would be a lot closer for us if it was possible!

However, if this proves fruitless then I will push for contacting Simon...I could even give him a phone myself and see if he thinks he might be able to help.

Just taking things one day at a time just now. Thanks for your support - I will definitely keep you updated!

Wendy x

Honey Monster said:

:wave: Thank you so much for your kind offer Roger - truly amazing! Going to your vets is certainly something I will consider, if there is any chance for H I will explore it She is a tough wee thing, very proud of her.

I will discuss this with my vets over the next day or so and see what he says...

akaemzybabe thank you for your advice...I have plantain but it is difficult getting her to eat it Her weight is actually doing ok just now, on the positive side...she gets oat, pellets and veg, won't eat hay despite it being alfalfa Not the healthiest I know but seems to be the only way i can maintain her weight...

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Just want to say don't feel guilty that her diet's a bit wierd. It's a case of anything she can tolerate to keep weight on here.

Honey Monster said:

Thanks again Roger

I spoke to my vet today and he still seems to think that because it's Honey's molar teeth they are practically impossible to remove, and also very difficult to get x rays of. He also said that even if the teeth were removed that can also cause problems eg for the other side of the mouth and healing etc.

However, he is going to do some research and get back to me, he has specialist colleagues in Edinburgh he is going to contact and see if they can suggest anything and if a referral to them would be worthwhile. This would be a lot closer for us if it was possible!

However, if this proves fruitless then I will push for contacting Simon...I could even give him a phone myself and see if he thinks he might be able to help.

Just taking things one day at a time just now. Thanks for your support - I will definitely keep you updated!

Wendy x

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Actually they are not impossible to remove or get x-rays off, it just needs to be done under anaesthetic, as it is just far more difficult because of the positioning, but this again is something that Simon is extremely experienced at, because he deals with lots of referrals from all over the country concerning such conditions, and is renowned for his bunny dental work. He is also highly experienced in the anaethetising (not sure if that is correct spelling?) and intubation of rabbits, because he does numerous every week. I really hope that something positive comes of the referral to Edinburgh, but I would certainly want to ask them how many times they had carried out dental work such as this, and if they can intubate bunnies. I know that sounds a silly question to ask, but many vets can anaethetisis (sorry about spelling!!) but cannot intubate rabbits as this is a completely different procedure, and why I think many bunnies are lost during dentals, if they suddenly need intubating but the vet cannot do it. Roger was a very high risk bunny for surgery, because of his severe neurological disabilities, but I can honestly say, Simon worked on his mouth on 4 seperate occassions, and yes on one of those I was warned that I would most probably loose him (was the longest day of my life!!), but Simon being Simon managed to not only complete all the work necessary, but there were no problems and Roger remained stable throughout. It had originally been decided that Simon would do what was absolutely necessary, but if Roger was at all unstable he would not continue, and would then rethink a treatment plan. Many vets work with just one anaesthetic induction agent, and for the main very successfully on dogs etc, but Simon uses 2, which I have a good knowledge off following my own work with humans in anaesthesia. There is a far greater safety margin if you are able to adjust the flows of 2 different agents, and means you can work more within a bunnies individual requirements, and although keeping them fully anaesthetised, not too deeply. Ideally bunnies should be kept as light as possible as this allows you more time for procedures, and in any blips that may occur, reversal is much swifter as is recovery. Bunnies are often lost when something goes wrong because they are too deep, and cannot be reversed quickly enough, and I previously experienced this myself with one of my first bunnies, and when I did not know about Simon. For my own peace of mind as well, I would personally phone and discuss with Simon, and he may well be able to give you some pointers so to speak before your referral, so that you know if these specialists are going to be specialist enough if that makes sense. Please keep us updated, your lovely bunny is also in my thoughts, and I would also be delighted if more could be done for her x

Forgot to say, Roger in effect had a terrible diet, but as Simon said, his teeth were dreadful anyway, and to keep weight on him would have been really difficult. Roger didn't like to eat hay either. Far to boring for such a VIR as him!! So I used to syringe feed him Supreme Science Recovery, which can be purchased much cheaper online than through the vet. It is a complete food, so hay included as well and provides everything your bunny needs to thrive, and Roger did very well on it and gained weight as well, and was then able to maintain it. He ate lots of banana which he loved, and in general isn't a good thing to feed because of high sugar content, as is apple apparently, but in an effort to keep his weight on he had whatever and however much he needed to help him (what I would have given for a overweight bunny lol) banana provided much needed calories and was soft to eat, and although apple was too hard, I grated it for him, and it was always the first thing he ate.

Honey Monster said:

Thanks again Roger

I spoke to my vet today and he still seems to think that because it's Honey's molar teeth they are practically impossible to remove, and also very difficult to get x rays of. He also said that even if the teeth were removed that can also cause problems eg for the other side of the mouth and healing etc.

However, he is going to do some research and get back to me, he has specialist colleagues in Edinburgh he is going to contact and see if they can suggest anything and if a referral to them would be worthwhile. This would be a lot closer for us if it was possible!

However, if this proves fruitless then I will push for contacting Simon...I could even give him a phone myself and see if he thinks he might be able to help.

Just taking things one day at a time just now. Thanks for your support - I will definitely keep you updated!

Wendy x

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Edinburgh is a centre of excellence for Rabbit Medicine and it is where the Rabbit Clinic is located.

http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departm...ic-animal-and-wildlife/rabbit-clinic/overview


The Vets are first class and I am sure they will offer your Vet great advice

Just wanted to say that I hope Honey gets her problem sorted asap. Bless her heart. x