Lump With Super fast Growth Rate - Cancer?

I'm worried about my indoor, rescue, male, uncastrated (on vet's advice due to lung problems), 8yr old Lionhead Rabbit, Lightsa, who has a history of bladder stones, and bladder infections. We are in London, UK.

Just before October, he had a bacterial infection. I was away a few days, and came back and was ill, and didn't clean his cage for a week, and he had a water dish he overturned, and I'm soooo ashamed to say the cage was damp. Anyway - a week on Baytril, and he was back to normal.

Then a couple weeks ago, I was snuggling him, and I noticed he had a huge plug of earwax in his left ear. We went to the vet, who prescribed Canaural for 2 weeks, break for 4, and again for 2 weeks. He hated the treatment so much. And even though I stopped treatment after 10days on vet advice - his fur is still is very clumpy and greasy looking. Vet said his ear was ok.

He picked up again in mood. All was fine, but my own work load is heavy and I didn't handle him for a few days, because I was frustratingly suffering from Exhaustion and practically got through the door and fell asleep immediately. Lightsa can lose weight shockingly fast, and had gone off his food, and was sitting hunched up, and when I handled him I was shocked that he'd lost a lot of weight, so we took him to the vet immediately.

He'd gone down from 2.34kg, to 1.90kg in less than a week. The vet said to stop the Canaural, and feed him, and see how it goes. I suggested feeds every 2 hours of Critical Care, probiotics, and keep up the baytril 1.7mls a day. She agreed.

I fed him every 2 hours and while un-impressed, initially, he soon got the idea. On Monday and Tuesday, my Mum fed him the Critial care, and he was doing great and eating on his own too. Then on Wednesday late at night, I got back and picked him out to cuddle him. Mum had reported that since the early hours of Tuesday morning, he'd started to fight being fed. We just thought he was getting stronger. But when I picked him up - as soon as I touched him - I was shocked. He has 2 huge joined, long lumps, densely filled, very firm to the touch, and sore but not open or broken skinned, and sitting on what feels like, the outter side of the right jaw. She said she hadn't noticed it, but they were huge.

She took him to the Vet this morning, while I was at work, along with some strict instructions from me, and the vet said it's Cancer. I made mum take him back in get painkillers at the very least, and sent a text with a few questions. On the positive side - Lightsa had gained weight again and wanted to play, is 4 days - he now weighs 1.99kg. I asked them to see if they could aspirate the lump - in case it was a cyst - they took a sample for analysing - we get that result back Monday.

The other thing that is weird is that about 2 weeks ago, his left testicle seems to have disappeared. The right one is marginally larger, but I'm wondering if that's because of the weight loss. The vet said it was a sign of cancer , because the body's hormones alter and absorb the testicle. They took a biopsy of that too. Ive never heard of that before and to me that just doesn't sound right?

So I'm wondering if that's true - and also - can a large Cancerous lump turn up, in under 48 hours?

Any opinions/advice - is greatly appreciated, because he won't survive long the lump growth rate so high.

I don't have much experience with lumps so someone will hopefully come along soon but did not want to read and run.

Possibly an abcess if it has come up that quick onthe jaw? NJot sure if abcesses are softer though :? Does he have teeth issues? Did your vet check them thoroughly as if he is not eating as much he will lose weight.

It is good you are having them analysed as this will give you a proper diagnosis and hopefully treatment option.

An abscess came to my mind as well. They can come up quickly. My friends rabbit had one and it suddenly appeared overnight she reckoned.

Yes abscesses can appear quickly like that and grow super fast in my experience. They're really hard to the touch as rabbit pus is super thick.

Hope the results come back favourable, abscesses are operable and treatable, depending if there is any bone involvement.

Good luck.

Haven't had a bunny with a jaw abcess but one of my rescues had one at the base of his ear and that was very firm to the touch and came from nowhere really fast.

I know it's still not nice but at least if it's an abcess there are treatments you can try. What is your vet like with rabbits, are they knowledgable? Did they check his teeth?

I dont have experience of lumps either, but was an xray done? I would, however, not rule out absesses.

Going to what I do have experience of - weightloss, gut problems and dental issues - has your rabbit had both the front and back teeth checked by the vet? Did the vet either put him under anesthetic or use an otoscope conciously to see the back teeth?

Bear in mind that refusing food/going off food is an emergency in rabbits due to the way their guts work (research illeus and stasis), you need to take them to the vet, day or night, when they stop eating, not when they've already lost the weight. That is why it is so important to be vigilant with what they are eating and how their poops are. He must have still been eating something, because if he had gone into full-blown stasis he would have been dead in 1-2 days, and he survived until you got him to the vet.

Does your bunny eat hay, and if so, does he eat a pile the size of himself everyday? Make sure you give fresh hay at least every 24 hours, preferably more often. You say he was in his cage for a week - how many hours of exercise does he get outside his cage a day? Is this free-range in a room or in a pen? The reason I ask is that exercise can often be helpful in getting the gut to move again when it slows down.

Is bunny on oral or injectable pain relief now? I assume it is metacam - dog or cat version?

Sounds almost exactly like Barnaby's jaw abcess. Nothing on the Thursday, massive lump on the Monday.
It was very firm to the touch and felt 'attached' to the jaw. Have your vet do an X-ray if possible as Barnaby's was caused by collapsed tooth roots which got infected. Lots of vibes for your bun
X

Just wanted to add to this - xrays can often be done by trancing the rabbit, or sedating it, or both, so perhaps he wouldn't need to go under GA (which can slow the gut) for the xrays to be done, if that is what has prevented you or the vet from doing them already.

What did the vet do to diagnose cancer? If all they did was feel it then I'd suggest you get a new vet asap and a second opinion. The history of ear problems suggests ear infection/abscess possibly with teeth involvement rather than cancer.

Tamsin said:

What did the vet do to diagnose cancer? If all they did was feel it then I'd suggest you get a new vet asap and a second opinion. The history of ear problems suggests ear infection/abscess possibly with teeth involvement rather than cancer.

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I agree, especially with the rapid growth rate

Tamsin said:

What did the vet do to diagnose cancer? If all they did was feel it then I'd suggest you get a new vet asap and a second opinion. The history of ear problems suggests ear infection/abscess possibly with teeth involvement rather than cancer.

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Absolutely ditto -

New Vet pronto

Xrays (under as light a sedation as possible - again new vet needed by sound of it)

Canural (in my experience I am not a vet) does absolutely nothing for infected rabbit ears and in fact, depending where the infection is, can make it much worse by making all the pus form a slimy blocking oily ball.

This sounds like a case for xrays, a culture of the infection, then abx, drainig, and unfortunately possibly an operation.

All of which needs an excellent rabbit savvy vet.

Please post new thread with your location (town will do ) and saying rabbit savvy vet needed URGENTLY.

PS bun will not be able to eat normally with the amount of pain it will be in - soften all food and syringe feed if possible as matter of urgency. This should have been done by vet when first presented at vets (as should the culture etc etc)

I'm sitting in my new job in tears. He's still alive & currently on patrol in the house as usual, & I spoke to a vet who is rabbit savvy. I expressed my concerns & he agreed with us all that it sounds like a abcess, but needs checking. I have an appointment booked for tomorrow at 9am. So why the tears? Because I can't finance the op. I don't get paid until end December, as job only started last week, after 3years of unemployment. My elderly parents finance me but they just said they can't afford the 600GBP it would cost (quote from vet) to have him treated, & that Mum said she didn't believe it to be fair on Lightsa, because of his age (8yrs approx). But its more a question of finances as he's cost us over 2000GBP, in 7years. I'm so upset. Mum added in her text "if its abcess, we should consider his future." I wish I'd never checked my phone until after work.

For now we are continuing feeding him supportively, Oxbrow's Critical Care, butehe's also eating on his own again just fine. He is bedded on organic meadow hay, from a bale, mixed with Western Timothy grass, & due to allergies, drinks Evian Water. His diet is strictly controlled due to a history of bladder stones. Basically, he lives better than I do. Lol.

Jinny said:

I'm sitting in my new job in tears. He's still alive & currently on patrol in the house as usual, & I spoke to a vet who is rabbit savvy. I expressed my concerns & he agreed with us all that it sounds like a abcess, but needs checking. I have an appointment booked for tomorrow at 9am. So why the tears? Because I can't finance the op. I don't get paid until end December, as job only started last week, after 3years of unemployment. My elderly parents finance me but they just said they can't afford the 600GBP it would cost (quote from vet) to have him treated, & that Mum said she didn't believe it to be fair on Lightsa, because of his age (8yrs approx). But its more a question of finances as he's cost us over 2000GBP, in 7years. I'm so upset. Mum added in her text "if its abcess, we should consider his future." I wish I'd never checked my phone until after work.

For now we are continuing feeding him supportively, Oxbrow's Critical Care, butehe's also eating on his own again just fine. He is bedded on organic meadow hay, from a bale, mixed with Western Timothy grass, & due to allergies, drinks Evian Water. His diet is strictly controlled due to a history of bladder stones. Basically, he lives better than I do. Lol.

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It's very possible to maintain and manage a bunny with an abscess medically without an operation. It doesn't always work but it can work- having done it with several (including one with a blown out face).

Maybe that might be a good place to start- something like major pain relief and an effective antibiotic such as an injectable penicillin.

I maintain my blown of bunny with Penicillin (which costs £13.50ish for 10 days worth), some Metacam and some Tramadol. It amounts to probably less than £25 in total to keep him happy and lively for a week.

If Lightsa still wants to fight then maybe it might be worth while looking at other options?

If not, then I can say from personal experience how horrifically painful a dental abscess is and, with rabbits hiding pain, you can be sure it is hurting him too. He can't just be left as he is, he, at the very least, needs pain relief to stay comfortable.

There's a link in my sig about advocating for your bunny which may be useful.

*squish*

I hope you find an outcome that allows Lightsa to not suffer, and obviously hopefully have many more lovely times ahead with you

I really hope that everything can work out for you and lightsa -

just a small money saving hint - Tesco own bottled water is very very low in calcium and is MUCH cheaper than Evian!!

Also for many buns with bladder/sludge issues low calcium diets make absolutely NO difference to the calcium sludge - obviously dont go mad with feeding calcium rich stuff - but it is a physiological thing with many of them - Teasal went through a period when we restricted his calcium so much he started to get bone thinning - but as still building sludge like no-ones business!

If its in the kidney rather than the bladder it can also be EC related rather than actual calcium.

Really hoping that things work out with controlling the abcess.

Thank you so much for your messages.The people at work looked at me as if I were stark raving mad, for crying over a rabbit. They don't know his story or understand all the fights we have had with him to get him through his battles, or how much work we did with him to sort out his horrendous problems that he came with, when I personally rescued him from outright appalling conditions. He's such a character, & I've fought so hard with him this last week...I just feel like I'm letting him down if its a money thing that stops him surviving....& my mother had all the tact of a running chainsaw against a leg, in her text too, so that really didn't help me at the time. At least now my new work colleagues now know me...as 'the oddball in the corner crying over not spending a small fortune on a rabbit!'

Sky, can you let me know what doses your bunny was on if at all possible? I don't know how much budget I have to fight with, and I'm hoping the vet knows his stuff, but I just want to be sure. Also, I didn't know Penicillin was ok on buns? I know its fatal on guineapigs.

I'm taking a printout of any\all advice with me tomorow. I want and am going to do all I can for him but I won't let him suffer either. He is worth too much & no animal deserves that.

I hope you can get some meds that will help. I believe a few people on here have given penicillen to their rabbits in certain situations.

Fingers crossed for him x

PS - don't worry about the people at work, I'm sure some must understand. I have been in pieces about mine in work before today.

Do all you can, tighten the purse strings as much as possible e.g. cheaper water, non organic hay (baled hay meant for horses is cheapest and normally good quality) no indulgences for yourself etc, and save as much money as you can. You can try the non-surgery route first, and then, if you need to consider more expensive options, then hopefully by then you will be in a better position to afford it.

I've never used it, but my understanding of penicillin is that it is a massive no-no if given orally, but is safe to use if injected.

Hopefully you will have a better idea of how to proceed after consulting your new rabbit-savvy vet. Make sure you take all of your rabbit's medical notes from your old vet with you when you go, to make the most of it, and because your new vet may be unwilling to be certain in a diagnosis without seeing the history. Your current vets should be happy to print it out for you if you ask.

Jinny said:

Sky, can you let me know what doses your bunny was on if at all possible? I don't know how much budget I have to fight with, and I'm hoping the vet knows his stuff, but I just want to be sure. Also, I didn't know Penicillin was ok on buns? I know its fatal on guineapigs.

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I know what dose my bunny is on but I don't know the actual dose that is given, so I don't feel confident saying anything, sorry (plus I think my vet dilutes it a bit more than he should as well, to minimise the risk of local reaction). He is treated with injectable Crystapen; one injection daily. Equally, injectable Depocillin is also used too. It can cause gut dysbiosis so often probiotics are given too to try and minimise this effect, although my chappy has not had a problem and he's been on it daily now for 6 weeks.

It will be fatal of given orally.

Sorry I can't be more help.

Jinny said:

Thank you so much for your messages.The people at work looked at me as if I were stark raving mad, for crying over a rabbit. They don't know his story or understand all the fights we have had with him to get him through his battles, or how much work we did with him to sort out his horrendous problems that he came with, when I personally rescued him from outright appalling conditions. He's such a character, & I've fought so hard with him this last week...I just feel like I'm letting him down if its a money thing that stops him surviving....& my mother had all the tact of a running chainsaw against a leg, in her text too, so that really didn't help me at the time. At least now my new work colleagues now know me...as 'the oddball in the corner crying over not spending a small fortune on a rabbit!'

Sky, can you let me know what doses your bunny was on if at all possible? I don't know how much budget I have to fight with, and I'm hoping the vet knows his stuff, but I just want to be sure. Also, I didn't know Penicillin was ok on buns? I know its fatal on guineapigs.

I'm taking a printout of any\all advice with me tomorow. I want and am going to do all I can for him but I won't let him suffer either. He is worth too much & no animal deserves that.

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If the Vet you see agrees that an injectable Penicillin and pain relief is an option to try to 'hold' the infection then Depocillin is actually extremely cheap

http://www.myvetmeds.co.uk/depocillin-injection-300mg-ml.htm


However, it is considered to be a 'high risk' antibiotic due to the possible effects on the Rabbit's GI tract. So some Vets are reluctant to allow a client to administer the injections themselves. Usually the client would need to be well known to the Vet and full training on administering the injections to minimise any potential risks (of the Rabbit or the Rabbit's companion ingesting leakage of the penicillin from the injection site for example) Also, the Vet has to follow the prescribing cascade when using 'off licence' medication

http://www.bsava.com/Advice/BSAVAGu...gcascadeandofflabeluse/tabid/360/Default.aspx

Opening up the abscess to allow daily flushing and packing with medical grade Manuka Honey may be another option in conjunction with the antibiotics and analgesia

This link may be useful to take a look at

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/jawabscess.html

hi all.

Just got back from the vet. Apart from being instantly seeming to know what he was talking about, he'd read through the notes from my other vet too & knew Lightsa's history in advance. The way he greeted Lightsa made me feel instantly better. He introduced himself to us, then bent down & said "hello Lightsa, & I know you won't like me, but I promise I will do my best to make you feel better, ok?" & my silly rabbit stepped forward & head bopped him gently. I almost cried as we all giggled.

Anyway, he checked him over, and I was happy to see that even since Thursday he's gained weight again. He felt the lump agreeeing with me that it was firm but moveable, & while he wouldn't rule out Cancer, (just as Lightsa started eatin a long strand of hay that had fallen from his carrier onto the table) he said Lightsa clearly isn't ready to give up yet.

He checked his testicles & said that one is clearly producing all the hormones hence enlarging one & shrinkage in the other, which is a cause for concern, but if we decided to operate, then castration at the same time would be recommended.

Treatment wise he said we should wait until Tuesday for the test results from our other vet. He said we were wise to insist on the tests & having them done then saved another few days waiting.

Medication: He changed us onto Injectable Penicillin (I think its Depocillin - will look later) & showed us how to do it. As I'm competent with needles anyway, & my mother also is on injectable Insulin everyday, he felt it was fine to show us what to do, supervise us on a fake bunny a couple of times each, & take it from there. We also are keeping him on Metacam for now.

He did ask us how we'd like to proceed & because we're all so heartbroken with what might be, & Mum is drowning in guilt, I quickly said that we will wait for the results & take it from there, but our biggest priority is that Lightsa shouldn't suffer...at which point my silly bunny started picking up the syringe & playing with it, and hopping about the table!

So for now I'm calmer. I know Monday will be a sleepless night. But on Sunday I'm taking a heap of stuff to the carboot sales, to try to raise funds. And I just listed some things on ebay too. Basically I'm just trying to keep distracted. Lightsa on the other hand is currently playing with some hay and running about the house, seeming blissfully unaware of all the upset he's causing, just the way it should be.
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