Can I use Panacur for dogs/cats on my buns?

Just picked up a prescription from the vets, baytril and panacur, but they've given me the cat/dog panacur. I've rang to check and the receptionist says its right, but I'm not convinced yet!

Is the same 18.75% stuff, same as the rabbit paste, but why would they market two different packs?

Surely there is a difference?

Can anyone set my mind at ease please? Is this ok to use?

(They've said 2 grads of the dog paste and he weighs just 1.6kg)

Thank you!

I would say not, because the rabbit one is one grade per 2kg :?

I would double check at the least. I mean, it's not like metacam where you only get dog/cat versions, they must make a rabbit version for a reason.

How many grades are there on the rabbit syringe please? It seems like that's a lot less that they've prescribed!

we use panacur liquid for dogs and cats as it allows you to be more accurate with dosing than using the preloaded syringes. Not sure about the dog and cat paste though, sorry

Looking at the info for both, the cat/dog version is exactly the same as the rabbit one, the same syringe, same concentration of active ingredient etc, but just different dosage rates.

Dog version: http://www.msd-animal-health.co.uk/products_public/panacur_paste/090_product_datasheet.aspx

Rabbit version: http://www.msd-animal-health.co.uk/products_public/panacur_rabbit/090_product_datasheet.aspx

Going by the dosage on the rabbit panacur datasheet, bunny should only need one graduation of the syringe, which treats a rabbit up to 2.5kg in weight so I would query the dosage as it looks as though they've based it on the dog/cat rate.

I would not use it! Yes, it's the same ingredient, and yes we used to use dog/cat panacur before one was licenced for rabbits, but if you look at those two links that Karen has given, the rabbit dose rate is 20mg/kg, the dog/cat dose rate is 100mg/kg, so even though the size of the syringe graduations differ, you would still be giving quite a large overdose. Also, I would suspect that they are flavoured differently - the panacur rabbit is flavoured with aniseed I believe to make it palatable for rabbits, the dog/cat one is probably meat flavoured (I am guessing at this, but that seems to make sense to me).

There is a legal prescribing cascade which means that if there is a product specifically designed for that purpose in that species, then your vets have to prescribe it. I'm not sure exactly where they would stand on this, as they are not giving you the 'rabbit' product, yet it is still the same drug.

I have no problem using the liquid dog/cat panacur like we used to, as I know the dose rate and it can be more cost effective, but I wouldn't use this as I don't think it would be giving an accurate dose.

Massive thanks everyone! I'll have to go into the surgery tomorrow and have a chat with someone. Not happy about this!

Santa said:

I would not use it! Yes, it's the same ingredient, and yes we used to use dog/cat panacur before one was licenced for rabbits, but if you look at those two links that Karen has given, the rabbit dose rate is 20mg/kg, the dog/cat dose rate is 100mg/kg, so even though the size of the syringe graduations differ, you would still be giving quite a large overdose. Also, I would suspect that they are flavoured differently - the panacur rabbit is flavoured with aniseed I believe to make it palatable for rabbits, the dog/cat one is probably meat flavoured (I am guessing at this, but that seems to make sense to me).

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Lapizole is definitely aniseed flavour & it says so on the datasheet. Panacur doesn't seem to give any info (and if I remember from past reading on here people preferred lapizole as bunnies seemed to find it more palatable than panacur) whereas the horse version specifically states that it's apple & cinammon flavoured. None of that proves anything either way of course and, if in doubt, then it's best to err on the side of caution & not use it. Is it a legal requirement to state if there are any flavourings I wonder? :?

The concentration of the fenbendazole is the same in both products though (18.75%) & both are a 5g syringe with 18 graduations; the only difference being the dosage - one syringe graduation is enough to treat a 2.5kg rabbit, whereas you'd need 5 graduations for a 2.5kg dog.

KarenM said:

The concentration of the fenbendazole is the same in both products though (18.75%) & both are a 5g syringe with 18 graduations; the only difference being the dosage - one syringe graduation is enough to treat a 2.5kg rabbit, whereas you'd need 5 graduations for a 2.5kg dog.

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So, they've said to use 2 graduations (based on dog/cat paste) whereas if I was using the rabbit specific paste, I'd only need 1 graduation. I remember hearing its not really possible to overdose on panacur (can't back that up btw) but still think I need to speak to the vets tomorrow.

Thanks all.
MB

I've just done the maths in my head and it all checks out that the graduations are exactly the same and the concentration is exactly the same on the two pastes. The only difference is the amount you give per kg which is larger for cats and dogs, so don't use the instructions on the cat and dog paste. Use the rabbit dosage 1 graduation per kg of bodyweight. You are right that an overdose of panacur would not be an immediate toxic threat. Obviously long term overdosing wouldn't be good.

I wonder if it is exactly the same in every way apart from the label they stick on it and the box they put it in...it seems plausible doesn't it! It would be cheaper for them to manufacture that way. So if that's the case and they've told you to give 2 graduations, that's a 5kg bunny dose they are suggesting for your 1.6kg bunny. Even if the product itself is absolutely identical, I would still not be happy with the dosing recommendation, personally. While panacur generally doesn't seem to have particular side effects, there are concerns about its impact n bone marrow, so it's not something I would want to give at higher than the recommended dose without very good reason. Good luck tomorrow x

Santa said:

I wonder if it is exactly the same in every way apart from the label they stick on it and the box they put it in...it seems plausible doesn't it! It would be cheaper for them to manufacture that way. So if that's the case and they've told you to give 2 graduations, that's a 5kg bunny dose they are suggesting for your 1.6kg bunny. Even if the product itself is absolutely identical, I would still not be happy with the dosing recommendation, personally. While panacur generally doesn't seem to have particular side effects, there are concerns about its impact n bone marrow, so it's not something I would want to give at higher than the recommended dose without very good reason. Good luck tomorrow x

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Yep, I agree. :thumb: I think it's said that it's not easy to overdose but one graduation is to treat a bunny up to 2.5kg so essentially you're already 'overdosing' (albeit safely) by giving the same amount to a 1.6kg bunny; I definitely wouldn't want to be giving a double dose though.

Hmm. They're adamant that the dosage is right. They'd give 2 graduations even of the rabbit paste, as they're trying to hit the (possible) parisites hard.

I'm confused though cos even the product data sheet says for "treatment" do 28 days rather than double up the dosage.

What's the problem with your bunny? I don't know enough to contradict their advice but I would have thought the dosage would be enough to kill the parasites without any need for doubling up. How long do they want to give the panacur for?

Mad Bunster said:

Hmm. They're adamant that the dosage is right. They'd give 2 graduations even of the rabbit paste, as they're trying to hit the (possible) parisites hard.

I'm confused though cos even the product data sheet says for "treatment" do 28 days rather than double up the dosage.

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If they are treating *intestinal parasites* then the dose needed is often is A LOT higher than for treating EC

KarenM said:

What's the problem with your bunny? I don't know enough to contradict their advice but I would have thought the dosage would be enough to kill the parasites without any need for doubling up. How long do they want to give the panacur for?

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He has been drinking loads of water. We've had blood results showing slightly higher levels of red blood cells and inflammatory cells, so treating for UTI and a possible EC case. They said do this for a week and see if either has made a difference - if it has, then we'll continue the full 28 day course for EC.